Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

• #840 by roma847 on 01 Oct, 2015 14:19
• Hi Tom,
  
  yep, these analyzes are in the long run quite frustrating, because the LVM Detail kits have some errors too, not only the Revell kit.
  But soon I have the overview and can decide what I have to scratch build and what not.
  
  
• #841 by roma847 on 03 Oct, 2015 22:41
• Hi everybody,
  
  once again, the staircase in front of the elevator shaft, which LVM has constructed incorrectly, actually even falser than Revell, if you look at it closely, what I want to clarify here again.
  
  The Revell stairwell has in the lower and upper part (above the RSS main floor), in each case four floors, what is one too many in the upper part because there are only three floors there.
  
  
  
  The LVM stairwell, however, is correct in the upper part with three floors, but wrong in the lower part with only three floors.
  
  The correct solution would be a superimposed arrangement with the Revell solution in the lower part and the LVM solution in the upper part, because then the stairwell would actually have seven floors in the correct arrangement.
  
  
  
  The question remains, how to solve the problem ... 
  Therefore, one should actually require a rework by LVM, in view of the money, what the kits have cost.
  
  Then It would have been better if they had left it at the reproduction of the Revell stairwell, in which then at least the lower part would have been correct.
  
  
• #842 by roma847 on 04 Oct, 2015 14:00
• Hi everybody,
  
  after further research also the local conditions in the gap behind the RCS Room have further clarified.
  
  The HER has the following dimensions, length (north-south) 36' (10,97 m), width 28' (8,53 m), height 14' (4,27 m) and is thus slightly higher than in my previous basic sketch, which looks something like this.
  
  
  
  Here is another view of the gap between the RCS Room and HER. On it one see that there is still an anteroom located in front of the HER, which is slightly lower and shorter and fills about half of the intermediate space. Out of it at the top a cable duct leads into the RCS Room.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  This drawing should illustrate this something.
  
  
  Source: capcomespace.com
  
  The interesting question for me was now again, whether this at the time of STS-6 already looked like that, because some rooms on the RSS have been installed only later, such as on the west and south sides of the RSS Main Floor behind the PCR.
  
  Therefore I was glad that I have found after a long search this old black and white photo here  from 11/06/1980, which proves that it at the time actually already gave this anteroom.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  And here still for comparing the present state from a different point of view.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  In order nothing stands in the way for an appropriate reconstruction of the RSS.
  
  
• #843 by roma847 on 05 Oct, 2015 21:43
• Hello everybody,
  
  after the front and side view I have now also drawn a plan view, which should help me especially with the planned modification of the RSS-rooms, and there was again a little surprise.
  
  For a rough orientation this Streetview image of the Pad 39A was very helpful.
  
  
  Source: google.de
  
  And this here is firstly the unchanged Revell arrangement where I intend to change both the PCR and the elevator shaft and HER and thus adapt more to the reality.
  
  
  
  And after drawing in the truck rails arc, I noticed immediately that the rear truck (position 1) would stand next to the truck rails, what obviously can not be, since I also still intend to plan a diorama. All other do not need to bother and can certainly let it be like that.
  
  To put now the truck from position 1 to 2 on the truck rails, you could now easily put the outer support frame at a slight angle under the support structure, what would then surely look modestly because of the supernatant.
  
  
  Since I was first surprised, I checked the disassembly plans, and thereafter the outer support frame (line 7) is actually slightly inclined backwards, which I had not observed so far.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Here are the two supporting frame components with dimensions, part 45 is the front frame, the rear is part 46, both of which have the same structure, which is not correct.
  
  
  
  As one can see, the difference is 4' (1.22 m), which corresponds about 7 mm (1:168).
  
  Strictly speaking one would intervene in the supporting structure and extend the outer raster of the front frame (part 45) what would be  absolutely feasible. 
  
  But since these two parts would have to be reworked anyway and are already on the to-do list,
  
  
  
  which could then be done the same in one go.
  
  
• #844 by roma847 on 15 Oct, 2015 15:08
• Hello everybody,
  
  thanks to my friend James MacLaren (39B) who was during the construction on Pad 39B and knows both pads very well, I have now a little more clarity on what profiles were used for the already discussed horizontal and vertical lattice structures on the PCR walls, which I have highlighted in this drawing.
  
  
  Source: capcomespace.com
  
  These girts (green) in the horizontal lattice structure directly on the walls are apparently W12 beams (Wide Flange Beams), and the vertical lattice structure between them is constructed using W6 beams (red). And on this lattice structures is located the RSS frame structure that envelops all, as well as this rhomb from the Ø 18'' pipes.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  In this view, the arrangement of the profiles is even clearer to see.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  Next, I will deal again closer with the elevator shaft and the HER. 
  
  
• #845 by roma847 on 16 Oct, 2015 11:24
• Hi guys,
  
  as you can see in the photos of of the dismantled RSS on Pad 39B everything much clearer, here is a last clarification to the stairwell next to the lift shaft.
  
  
  Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)
  
  As you can quite clearly see here, the stairwell above the RSS Main Floor, actually has seven floors, and not six as with LVM. But they are not arranged uniformly distributed over the total height of the frame structure.
  
  Rather, the bottom three floors have approximately the same height, and also the top three, whereupon whose height is slightly larger. The 4th floor is slightly lower than the upper three and goes out about the central transverse brace of the frame structure, like the 7th floor something goes over the upper transverse brace addition.
  
  Whether this finding, however, would now convince LVM thereof, to modify their stairwell accordingly, remains pure speculation, it would be welcomed in any case.
  
  
• #846 by roma847 on 17 Oct, 2015 20:47
• Hello everybody,
  
  before we speculate here any longer, I have very interesting pictures of my friend Michael (mk310149), who has built David Maier's Launch Pad (1:144) from paper.  And so you can a lot more recognize than on the previous light and shadow pictures, even though some details are indicated in a conventional manner only by clever textures.
  And as you can see easily, the elevator shaft has actually this inclined wall running up to the PCR. 
  
  
  Source: papermodelers.com (mk310149)
  
  However, this wall is no more detailed behind the stairwell, which is why the doors are missing,
  
   
  Source: papermodelers.com (mk310149)
  
  or one has to imagine it behind the pipes. 
  
   
  Source: papermodelers.com (mk310149)
  
  As you can also see, the stairwell is interrupted only in the top three floors and has stairs, the lower four floors do not, but are only hinted at. But the stairwell has seven floors, and the different frame-division also corresponds to the original, so at least the elevator shaft problem is likely to be clarified.
  
  And now I also have got the confirming by my friend James (NSF-Forum) that the elevator shaft "lobby" was triangular and the Revell model is totally wrong in this regard, which was to be expected.   
  
  
• #847 by roma847 on 18 Oct, 2015 12:29
• Hi all together,
  
  now I have actually found in Capcomespace a few great drawings, finally to obtain a clear overview of the PCR and the elevator shaft with the inclined wall, which provide the final proof. 
  
  As you can see it, one comes out of the elevator shaft into this triangular "lobby" and then passes through a doorway, which is not a door but an open entrance, directly into the PCR, which is a Clean Room. And in this wall I have indicated one of the doors, which should give it there.
  
  
  Source: capcomespace.net
  
  I think that these are emergency exit doors, which are closed normally, but through which you can reach via the stairwell down when the lift should have a disaster. For what should the staircase otherwise be good? 
  
  And in this drawing can be clearly seen also the platforms in front of the elevator shaft with the doors, where upon the platforms seem to be a bit too large, possibly from an early concept phase of the Pad history.
  
  
  Source: capcomespace.net
  I hope that's about it on the subject elevator shaft. 
  
  
• #848 by roma847 on 28 Oct, 2015 09:50
• Hi everybody,
  
  and therefore the modified lift shaft should later once look something like this, of course, with six doors in the inclined wall.
  
  And on top of the RCS Room Floor there must then be also a Cut between the elevator shaft, the RCS Room and HER, what I'm going to sketch sometime soon.
  
  
  
  
• #849 by roma847 on 29 Oct, 2015 15:24
• Hello friends,
  
  today I will continue with my FSS investigation of the Revell Kit. This has therefore lasted a little bit longer, because for the necessary dimensions of the Tower structural elements in addition to the Pad 39B Dismantling plans I had also to rummage in the old LUT plans. 
  
  But for that I now have a good overview, I want to present now.
  
  For the FSS frame construction Standard steel beams were used, their configuration can be found in the AISC standards (American Institute of Steel Construction). These include among others a wide range of H-, I- and T-beams, etc., whose designations first getting used to, especially since in the US there is no metric system, but all dimensions are in feet and inches, and you have to convert everything. But this later more with concrete examples.
  
  First, again looking back on some already discussed scale facts.
  
  The lateral parts of the Revell Tower are 447 mm long, which corresponds with a tower height at Level 295 of 75.3 m and a scale of 1:168, what is the reference standard for my launch pad.
  
   
  
  While the lateral parts in Revell's kit new edition now all have the same structure construction, in the old kits there were on the west side between Level 175 and Level 215 these two cross beams (red), apparently to install the Emergency Egress Sytems (EES), but which does not exist and, consequently, so are not required.
  
  
  
  And so now to some details of the FSS-frame structure, whose construction over the entire height from Level 75 to Level 295 is almost identical in the  Revell kit, which is not true.
  
  
  
  The changes from floor to floor are indeed barely noticeable, but still present.
  
  Both the lateral spars (welded square tubes) as well as the outer frame supports decrease upwardly both in cross section as well as in wall thickness.
  
  
  Source: Troy McClellan
  
  The lateral spars have shortly above Level 240 a transition from square tubes (Box Columns) to H-beams (Wide Flange), and are changing from H-beams (W14x193) to I-beams (W14x61).
  
  
  Source: Troy McClellan
  
  So much for today, next time I'll show then the deviations of the Revell's profiles of the frame structure in detail, what is something special then. 
  
  
• #850 by roma847 on 30 Oct, 2015 13:06
• Hello everybody,
  
  and thus now in detail to the FSS frame construction, which is undersized by Revell and quite simplified. And as we have already noted, all FSS levels are too low, due to the 7.5 cm too low height of the tower (1:168).   
  
  And now to the individual structural elements of the frame structure, the dimensions of which I found with two exceptions in the 39B Dismantling plans after a long search. And this concerns specifically the edge lengths of the upwardly tapering square tubes ([COLOR="Blue"]Box Columns[/COLOR]) at the foot of the tower and at the transition to the W-beams above Level 235. But I was quite glad to have found at least two box dimensions in the central region. 
  
  So I calculated the edge length of the box-spars at the bottom of the tower from this picture based on the height (30'') of the first frame support W30x99,
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  and the corresponding edge length of the spar at the transition from this picture based on the local frame support W24x76.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  And therefore still to these two profiles after the transition, which however, are not gradated in the Revell kit.
  While the W14x193 is a typical H-beam with a square cross section (15,5''x15,7''), the following part W14x61 (13,9''x10,0'') corresponds more likely to an I-beam.
  
  And so this looks in detail, whereupon I again have indicated the scaled 1:168 values next to the relevant profiles, and to the right the dimensions of the Revell parts. I hope that the details are still to read and the colors are not be too confusing.
  
  What should one immediately notice is the fact that all Revell frame supports from top to bottom have the same height of 4.2 mm, and all diagonal struts the same diameter Ø 1,9 mm. During the struts in the lower part to Level 135 are slightly undersized, in the upper part they nearly correspond with the actual conditions.
  
  
  
  The deliberate cross section reduction of the frame supports however Revell has less well implemented upwards.
  
  It is similar with the side beams, which have the same cross-section from the bottom up to the transition and do not taper towards the top.  And that is in fact already a clear difference, because these huge square tubes taper from approx. 760 mm edge length (2'4¾'') at the bottom (wall thickness 90 mm), after all, just over half to approx. 356 mm (1'8½'') at Level 235.
  
  
  
  But the really most serious deviation from reality represent the railings, because they are lot too strong with Ø 1 mm, what might find less attention. However, one must say that these diameters can not be realized by means of injection molding, but rather probably only with PE parts.   
  
  So my mission of inventory making of the greatest deviations of the Revell kit in my view would now almost complete with mainly.
  How one should deal with it, will have to be shown therefore, and everybody has to decide for itself.
  Therefore just another approach to the diagonal struts in the lower section to Level 135 that I'll probably replace entirely.
  
  
• #851 by Ronpur50 on 30 Oct, 2015 19:48
• You are creating an amazing reference for these structures, and building an awesome model!
• #852 by roma847 on 31 Oct, 2015 23:17
• Thanks Ron for your kind words.
  
  Hello guys,
  
  because the chunky railings has left me no rest, I have tested my PE railings of ABER in order to have a comparison with a true to scale part.
  
  This railing can be found at ABER under Ship relings (1:150) and the dimensions of which should fit almost perfectly, especially as they are only 0.2 mm "thin".
  
  
  
  So I've even cut out an useable strip,
  
  
  
  and have mounted provisionally on the west side of Level 195 at the local gap in the railing, which there is actually not existing because of the freedom of access to the rescue baskets of EES, even not these outer short pieces, what I had already mentioned. But through this gap one can see the difference from the 1 mm "thick" railings of the Revell Tower very well what has impressed me.
  
  
  
  And since we are talking just about, the overlying cross beam (the old kits) does not exists at this place. It could be that Revell had tried to indicate the cross beam on which the ropes (Slide Wire) are attached, via which in the case of an accident the emergency the baskets slide down, who knows? But this cross beam is sitting a bit in front of the FSS framework, as you can see here.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  And here once more a taste one floor deeper on Level 175, where in the old kits both the railing and the diagonal braces completely lacking, and the cross beam is not true. Therefore the comparison with the chunky railing of the level below here is even better to see, I think.      
  
  
  
  And the longer I look so, the more I reach the view that it would be worthwhile, perhaps completely replace the Revell railings, what do you think? 
  
  Because later will come then still the filigree grid floors, stairways and the elevator shaft of the LVM Detail Kits, which would then naturally harmonize well. 
  
  
• #853 by roma847 on 02 Nov, 2015 11:06
• Hello everybody,
  
  to round off the matter, today only briefly my conclusion about the planned changes of the FSS, of which actually no longer so much is left when you look at it realistically.
  
  On the Side beams nothing should be changed, except for the upper part after the transition from the Box Columns to the W profiles W14x193 and W14x61. While W14x193 in 1:168 would correspond to a 2.5 mm H-Beam, one could use a 2.0 mm I-Beam for W14x61.  
  
  Since the gradual tapering of the square tubes a total of only is about 1 mm upwards, it can be approximately neglected.
  
  
  
  Also the Frame girders one should leave unchanged, since in their inner sides the PE grid floors of LVM are fitted. Only the top frame girder W33x118 could be replaced by an Evergreen I-beam (4.8 mm), since one anyway must intervene in the upper three levels. 
  
  The Railings I will completely replace however and use for this the PE-railings of LVM, because they fit perfectly to this scale.
  
  
  
  Consequently, one only need to exchange the lower eight Ø 16'' Diagonal braces, but as I said, the first floor is anyway too low and must be raised by approx. 8 mm, in order to  bring it to 1:168.
  
  And then, of course still the installation of the additional floor, for which I had to decide me enforcedly. 
  
  Last not least, the FSS includes also the three Access Arms OAA, OVA, IAA, which I will also scratch build for the most part.
  All together a lot of tricky work.
  
  
• #854 by Kansan52 on 02 Nov, 2015 23:23
• Is there anything that would be simpler done with a 3-d printer? I just learned a couple of weeks ago there is a place to send files to print. Plus, it is becoming more common for libraries to have 3-d printers to use at the library.
• #855 by roma847 on 03 Nov, 2015 15:52
• Hi Kansan,
  
  you probably mean Shapeways, where there is indeed a large amount of parts for Real Space Modeling, such as here.
  
  But the parts that I need are too specific. The railings, I would need, are only 0.2 mm thick, which is not possible in 3D printing. For this you can use better PE parts made of brass, as I have shown.
  
  
• #856 by Kansan52 on 03 Nov, 2015 16:00
• Thanks! Should have known you'd already knew!!
• #857 by roma847 on 23 Nov, 2015 22:50
• Hello everybody,
  
  so friends, after a fling penultimate Thursday for a (guaranteed not one-time) rendezvous with my "dream" woman Mriya (AN-225) on the Leipzig/Halle Airport,
  
  
  
  whose preparation and follow has taken some time to complete, it will now go further on my Launch Pad.
  
  What has always been lacking is the analysis of the right support structure of the RSS, including the Hinge Column to FSS, with whom I have engaged myself in some detail. And as I have already suggested, this looks similar to those on the left with regard to undersized profiles.
  
  This involves first of all the parts 22, 39, 41, 47 and 54 shown on the assembly guide.
  
  
  
  And now I have noticed that the lower side parts of the front elevation below the RSS Main Floor are open to the fore, and not closed as in the Revell-RSS.
  
  
  Source: Revell
  
  That looks here for the STS-6 at least so, as if these two platforms are open towards the front.   
  
  
  Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
  
  Therefore this one must be taken under a closer look.
  
  
• #858 by roma847 on 29 Nov, 2015 09:57
• Hello everybody,
  
  as you can see relatively well in this photo from 1983, the upper floor (APU Servicing Platform) extends deeper into the inside than the front wall as well as the subjacent APS Servicing Platform below the RSS Main Floor of the PCR.
  
  Unfortunately, the middle area is covered by the two OMS Pod Covers.
  
  
  Source: John Duncan
  
  And both floors are also much wider than the PCR, which is not also true at Revell, and need to be broadened accordingly.
  
  In any case, both floors are open towards the front, so one must remove the side panels of the front wall. And consequently, the LVM parts have to be adjusted with the railings, which form the front end. 
  
  Another problem are the two OMS Pod Covers below the PCR Bay that are highly abstracted with Revell and sit too far inside, namely where the two APU and APS Servicing Platforms are.
  
  
  
  Both Revell parts can, if at all, only as an outer shell to be used, because towards the front or on the inside the Pod Covers have indeed an approximately semicircular shell shape which is adapted to the contours of the OSM pods. 
  
  Here one can see the installation of the OMS Pod Covers, how Revell has imagined, but which is not correct. As noted above, the front sides below the RSS Main Floor must be removed which then allow a view into the interior of the APU and APS Servicing Platforms.
  
  
  
  As can be seen on the very first image, the upper front edge of the pod cover is not flush with the PCR main doors but are significantly more forward on. Presumably, the rear edges will be flush.   
  
  And this was the back of the Pod Cover, which were mounted on the Pad 39B, and I mean it might be the left cover. A photo of the inside structure would be interesting, of course, but unfortunately I have no HiRes images.
  
  
  Source: NASASpaceflight.com (J. MacLaren)
  
  What is interesting is the structure of the two missing platforms that need to be completely scratch built. In the meantime, I have found two NASA panorama that show both platforms in detail and thus constitute a great help. 
  
  And so it looks on the lower APS Servicing Platform, which has a large cutout for the orbiter tail in the middle that extends close to the PCR back wall.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  As can be seen on the panorama, the back ceiling of the platform hangs a bit deeper, which can be seen in the next panorama of the APU Servicing Platform clearly.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  
  Source: NASA
  But look arround to your heart's content. 
  
  And so now the structure of the two platforms looks relatively clear, which is but a tricky challenge for scratch building. 
  
  
• #859 by roma847 on 13 Dec, 2015 15:30
• Hi everybody,
  
  still a short addendum to the upper connection of the OMS Pod Covers to the PCR-bay, one can clearly see from this HiRes. photo of STS-1.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  And it is true, as I suspected it, because the Pod Covers sit completely in front of the RSS Main Doors, so also this detail would be clarified.
  
  Another mistake in Revell's vision of the RSS is the fact that the front of the PCR Bay is completely straight, which is not true, as illustrated in this section of the STS-1 photo:
  
  
  
  The red line is intended to represent the execution of the Revell model and the green line the reality. The additional grid structure on both sides was completely ignored by both Revell and LVM, which unfortunately very quickly leads to a "warped perspective", including the arrangement of the OMS Pod Covers.
  
  There the side guide rails for the Payload Canister are missing, which sit behind the side grid frames. But these are the little things that Revell handled relatively generously and easily 40 years ago.
  
   
  
  And LVM unfortunately overlooked a number of these quirks or had to make do with them, and attached their detail kit parts onto the oldie kit, as well as improving a number of things if the effort wasn't too great. The RSS elevator shaft is, among other things, unfortunately an example of such "mutual sins of omission".
  
  On the other hand, the whole launch tower is far too complex to do everything technically correctly, but it definitely could have been a little more. Then Revell would not only have been allowed to reheat the old injection molds for the new edition but also fundamentally  revise the kit, and first of all had to resolve the scale dilemma, which in retrospect would have been far too expensive.
  
  Another example are the doors (RSS Main Doors) in the PCR Bay,
  
  
  
  which at Revell has this simplified rounded shape, not to mention the already discussed OMS Pod Covers (left).
  
  
  
  While the bay in Revell is not further structured and there are no doors to be seen, LVM still has the door gap (B-55) and the lower small ones Doors (A-54) indicated by PE parts. However, the doors do not reach all the way to the top, which is why can can save the upper door gap (B-56).
  
  
  
  In reality it looks a little different, as you can see in this image. The two main doors connected by hinges are flat,
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  and are opened after the payload canister has been connected to transfer it into the PCR, what one can see in this image from the interior.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Based on the dimensions of the PCR and the bay given in this drawing, you can see to what extent these parts are again undersized at Revell (red),
  
  
  Source: capcomespace.net
  
  what you have to consider when installing the modified doors and OMS Pod Covers!
  
  
  
  
  Oh how good that we have compared.