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#820 by roma847 on 06 Sep, 2015 22:00
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Thanks Dave,
then come along for the joyride, you are all invited.
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#821 by roma847 on 10 Sep, 2015 13:11
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Hello everybody,
in the RSS image retrieval I had noticed some new incongruities of the Revell kit, to which I want to point out briefly.
As you can see in the picture of the RSS back at the time of STS-6, there is an intermediate space between the Hoist Equipment Room (HER) and the Elevator Shaft through which extends the lateral tubular supporting construction.
The HER is the room, in which the 90 ton crane is located, with which the Payload Canister is pulled up in front of the PCR entrance over an oblique cable pull, extending through the RCS Room.
Source: NASA
In contrast in the Revell kit the elevator shaft connects directly seamlessly to the HER, as you can see in this image of the model, what really hurts.
Apart from the many lamps that are totally out of place there, the HER does not close directly to the RCS Room, but has a significant distance, as in this picture of the STS-6 is seen here.
Source: NASA
In this view from the FSS on the RSS you can also see very nicely the room layout behind the RCS Room and the two oblique crane cables.
Source: NASA
And so there are other incongruities.
In the first picture, one can see at the back the two thick insulated pipes (HVAC DUCT) of the huge air-conditioning technology of the PCR, comming from the bottom of the "large-capacity air conditioning" (HVAC PLENUM) which discharge into the PCR at the upper end what can also be seen in this drawing again.
Source: capcomespace.net
And these two pipes are also arranged wrong in the Revell model, as can be clearly seen in the second image.
In the LVM Detail Kit however that has already been corrected.
And then I have noticed the simplified RSS framework as distinct from the original, which is indicated only by rectangular profiles on the walls, which is also wrong and looks pretty rustic, like so many others.
Here, the rear wall,
and here the side walls and front side parts.
But as you can see on closer inspection of the original images, the whole PCR complex sits as in a "cage" made of square profiles, tubes and I-beams, which has a certain distance from the actual building wall, which in turn is reinforced by narrow profiles. And this gap Revell has completely ignored, whereby the lateral tubular frame structures sit directly on the walls.
Source: NASA
What one should now correct of all that would have to be considered again in more detail, but at least the subdivision of the upper rooms, I would think.
Otherwise, one definitely had to make sure that thereby the implemetation of many LVM attachments is not impeded because that would be a pity. And there are quite a lot of stairs, walkways, etc. left and right of PCR.
Source: capcomespace.net
That's it for today with the fault analysis.
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#822 by Davp99 on 10 Sep, 2015 15:56
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It's a Monster
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#823 by Ronpur50 on 10 Sep, 2015 20:45
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Wow, you might as well build from scratch!!!
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#824 by roma847 on 11 Sep, 2015 21:19
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Thanks guys for your nice words, Ron, I know that you only want to challenge me with it, but don't take trouble.
Unfortunately, this is just a nice dream.
In this respect I fully agree with Dave, it's a Monster and made for modeling madness.
And also my approach is turning out to an increasingly more difficult balancing act. 
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#825 by roma847 on 16 Sep, 2015 10:38
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Hi everybody,
today now the next step of the fault analysis.
As I said and you have seen previously, these rectangular profiles on the PCR walls are just too clumsy and also wrong.
Here, on both sidewalls and on the two front strips all thicker profiles are throughout 2.8 mm wide and 2.0 mm high. And all thin profiles are 1.5 mm wide and about 0.7 mm high.
And on the back side it looks the same.
Okay, still a lot of LVM PE accessories will be installed on the sides of the PCR later, whereby some of the rudeness can be concealed. But in particular on the less built-up back side a filigree detailing would be worthwhile in any case, especially since no major complications would result.
With this chunky rectangular profiles on the walls, that just do not like me, the RSS and in particular the central PCR part looks somehow too coarse.
In this context I have reminded again to the building report of a friend in our German forum (Raumcon) and followed his former first steps in the construction of the RSS. And here this picture indicates exactly what I mean.
Especially since these profiles in the enclosing PCR frame construction mainly are tubes, now I have gotten to the bottom of the matter and have added the diameters of the corresponding profiles in the already known images of the PCR walls.
Here are first of all the side walls and front wall strips. What first stands out, are the two missing slanted 18'' tubes and the top two 10'' tubes in the side strip, which must run the other way round.
The profile W27x128 (27''x10'') is an I-Beam, as you can see here. 
Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)
The horizontal struts (presumably I-Beams) directly seated on the wall panels I have estimated from photos to approximately 7'', which would correspond to a width of about 1 mm (1:168). The other dimensions are needed to convert, if one would think about scratch building.
Then I have noticed that the height of Revell PCR in accordance with the stack corresponds to about 1:140, the width however, is only about 1:175.
And on the back panel, there are those profiles here, being at a comparable level (about 1:140) whose width is about 1:168.
Next time I will go into detail of the diameter of the lateral support structures right and left of the PCR, which have also partly larger deviations from reality, which I have not noticed so far.
In any case, is already quite clear that the RSS would get a much more pleasant and more realistic look, if one would correct those things.
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#826 by roma847 on 19 Sep, 2015 21:16
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Hello everybody,
almost I had resigned myself to the fact that the place behind the RCS Room would be too closely, still somehow to separate the HER, but what I absolutely would not like.
And because this has left no rest, I have wasted some brainpower again and puzzled out the following solution for the gap which should actually be feasible in principle.
The impetus for this solution I have got by these images of a friend in the Raumcon Forum, I've remembered.
He had once made a similar attempt, as can be seen here,
but he had installed the lateral elevator shaft flush with the PCR, which is not quite right.
And this solution possibility has been always in my mind.
The question of whether in fact a separation of the lift shaft from the PCR should be done, which would actually be correct, I will first times let still open. How here again be seen, but this gap is actually present, and at least on the back clearly visible,
Source: NASA
because between the lateral tubes of the frame construction as well as cable channels run, as can be seen nicely in the picture of STS-1. And then it looks as if the HER is even slightly higher than the elevator shaft.
Source: NASA
After my previous view, the connection of the staircase made of the LVM parts located in front of elevator shaft in principle should not be hindered by this modification, as far as one can see from the LVM-building instructions.
As far as today.
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#827 by roma847 on 22 Sep, 2015 11:31
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Hello everybody,
And so it not becomes boring, also on the lateral support structures right and left of the PCR there are similar deviations of the diameter/dimensions of the Revell's profiles from the real structure.
So here's first the south-facing support structure of the RSS, left the real tube diameters and down-scaled values (1:168), and right the Revell dimensions.
Particularly striking are the too thin central 18'' and 22'' struts given the huge RSS structure. And why Revell has just replaced the lower 24'' tubes through these I-beams, will also remain a mystery. 
And that probably will not look otherwise on the right side, which I'll check next time.
The question remains, how to deal with these thin rods, probably amputate ...
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#828 by Davp99 on 22 Sep, 2015 16:48
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Never Bored, I appreciate the Updates
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#829 by roma847 on 23 Sep, 2015 17:33
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Thanks Dave and Hello everybody,
but that is still not enough, during intense viewing of RSS images around the elevator shaft I noticed that Revell has also strongly simplified the shaft.
Best to see is it in this picture of the STS-6. The side wall of the elevator shaft is only at the top of the engine room throughout planar.
Source: NASA
Further down this wall runs from the middle sloopingly forward to the PCR, which can be seen clearly by the changing light/shadow.
Maybe it's also angled shortly in front of the wall. 
Accordingly, the Revell lift shaft is constructed incorrectly. Therefore, the lower doors sit in the shaft unlike the upper door in the front wall of the machine room probably in these sloping floor walls in front of the local staircase, as I have marked blue in this STS-1 photo.
Source: NASA
This wrong construction of the elevator shaft LVM Studios have taken over in Detail Kit No. 5 and adapted to their stairwell made of PE parts,
as can be seen here in the LVM building instructions.
And thus to another Revell error.
In the lower part of the elevator shaft can be seen six inclined floors doors, and even a 7th door at the top in the machine room.
Source: NASA
The Revell lift shaft has there only five floors with associated doors, what LVM has taken over as one can see here in the RSS shell of a friend from the Raumcon Forum by the PE doors and therefore missing apparently a complete floor.
Source: forum.raumfahrer.net (golgi863)
But that's still not the end of the chain of errors, what I'm going to show soon.
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#830 by Ronpur50 on 24 Sep, 2015 03:37
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Wow, this just gets deeper and deeper into complexity. I had no idea it was so bad. But still, the fact that this model was ever done is amazing.
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#831 by roma847 on 24 Sep, 2015 12:07
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Thanks Ron for your response, I fully agree with you.
Maybe that's not been clear enough with the inclined extension of the front wall below the upper cut-out for the angled strut of the support structure.
Therefore, I show here again an imageof the dismantling of the Pad 39B, where you can better see what I mean, because not so much parts are surrounding.
Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)
In my opinion, one can recognize the difference between the position of the upper fully opened and the bottom slightly opened doors in the inclined elevator shaft wall clearly.
And with the help of this photo I have tried to draw in the lift shaft into the RSS shell as it should look like, which then gives a more realistic picture. The doors I've omitted for simplicity. 
Now I hope that possible lacks of clarity and doubts could become eliminated, if not, then let me know please.
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#832 by roma847 on 24 Sep, 2015 23:23
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Hey guys,
it's incredible, more than 200.000 views!
Thanks for your sustainable interest, anytime helpful comments and kind words.
Your great work and experience gives me inspiration for my own work day by day.
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#833 by roma847 on 26 Sep, 2015 15:21
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Hi everybody,
with respect to the wrong profiles on the PCR walls it looks a bit more difficult, as one can see from this comparison of Revell's profiles with the reality.
Left the real dimensions and down scaled values (1:168), and right the crazy Revell dimensions.
That's why I have probably to scratch build the complete PCR.
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#834 by roma847 on 26 Sep, 2015 15:28
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Hello everybody,
as if I had known it, it becomes more trickier, now I was almost falling for an error of LVM Studios, because this RSS image of a friend has confused me.
And in this regard I have to correct my post (09/23/15) specifically to the stairwell in front of the elevator shaft, with regard to the number of floors in the Revell kit or LVM Kit, which is why I want to clarify again.
Fact is namely that in the Revell kit no floor is missing, but there is one too much. This was shown by a friend in our German Raumcon forum some time ago (2011) with this photomontage.
Source: raumfahrer.net (Halbtoter)
As one can see, in the lower part the stairwell above the RSS Main Floor there are four floors and in the upper part three, a total of seven floors. Revell (left) has in both parts four floors, a total of eight, and thus one floor too much.
As you can also see, all the Revell floors have the same height, while in reality the upper three floors are each slightly higher than the bottom four.
And now to this stairwell in the LVM Detail Kit No. 5, and a surprising finding. After I had looked at the corresponding PE-parts, I thought so at first still that I had miscounted me, but it was not like that.
To my amazement the stairwell of LVM has only six uniformly high levels above the RSS Main Floor, but that is now clearly one floor too little! Why LVM has solved it in this way and not correctly is not comprehensible as the fact that there are only five doors in the elevator shaft.
Source: LVM Studios
As you can see it, unfortunately, not only Revell had problems with his kit. Now the only question is, whether one is content with this fact and build the LVM kit OOB, or how to deal with it. The Launch Pad no longer becomes true to original.
But since I will rebuild the elevator shaft anyway, maybe I think about a cleverer solution of the stairwell, especially since I already have to adapt the LVM tier floors to the inclined wall.
Time will tell ...
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#835 by Davp99 on 26 Sep, 2015 20:00
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Looks like Revell & LVM, took the easy way out..Talk about cutting corners, but that's almost criminal ;-)
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#836 by roma847 on 26 Sep, 2015 21:01
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Unfortunately, most of us don't know this previously, therefore I show all errors so unsparingly, so that everyone knows what awaits him. Then everyone can decide for themselves what is the best, all or nothing, or something ...
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#837 by shuttlemodeler on 29 Sep, 2015 15:43
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hey Manfred. Been keeping up on your posts. you are making progress. i don't remember if you have seen this document but it has a lot of structural details on the FSS/RSS
http://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/137203-SOL-001-005.pdf
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#838 by roma847 on 29 Sep, 2015 21:49
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Hello Tom,
yep, I Know, this is the awesome Demolition Package of Pad 39B with all the Framing Plans of FSS and RSS, really great stuff for scratch building.
Is there any progress on your pad?
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#839 by shuttlemodeler on 30 Sep, 2015 20:04
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No I have made no progress. It has been a busy summer with to many things going on. Now that the fall is here i am going to get back to it.
Besides if i wait for you. You do a lot of the hard discovery work
