Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

• #780 by llanitedave on 06 Jul, 2015 01:14
• Holy detail, Batman!  (Old joke from a 1960's television show)
  
  I've been following this build silently from the first post, and as time goes on I just find myself more and more in awe of the exquisite work you are doing here. And it seems to be getting better and better as time goes on.  This an ambitious project, and you are a master of it.
• #781 by roma847 on 06 Jul, 2015 13:07
• Thank you my friend for your compliments and especially for the patience over such a long time. 
  I hope You will stay tuned. These details are made for scratch building. 
  
  
• #782 by the_other_Doug on 07 Jul, 2015 02:38
• I know I've mentioned this before, Manfred, but your skills are freakin' awesome.  I absolutely can't wait to see the finished product -- but don't rush on anyone's account.  Your work is amazing, and it should take exactly as long as you need it to take.
• #783 by roma847 on 07 Jul, 2015 17:37
• Thanks buddy for your nice words.
  
  I am happy if you like it. I also have a lot of fun and just can not stop with this tricky stuff.   And that takes a lot of time, but I'll take and do not need to rush.
  Hopefully you have also so much patience as I, because it will still going further for a while.
  
  
• #784 by roma847 on 10 Jul, 2015 13:23
• Hi guys,
  
  as I noticed at repeated consideration of some NASA panoramas of the MLP-2, there are actually some supports, their clamping rings have only four screw connections.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  But this also applies to some other supports, which is why I have looked once more in more detail.
  
  Out of pure fun I have done the effort and examined carefully once more the 36 supports of the 24'' pipes with respect to the clamping ring screw connections.
  
  And thanks to the still available NASA panoramas for MLP-2 this analysis is complete, I assert, and has brought interesting findings, but probably should be interested in only such crazy detail lovers like me.
  
  Now here's my inventory in the image that is not too confusing, hopefully, so I would like to explain briefly. 
  
  
  
  This drawing (here MLP-1) shows the SSWS that is arranged around the right SRB hole, behind the LH2 TSM.
  
  The 18 supports of 24'' pipe are indicated by arrows, the red arrows belong to the four supports that do not have clamping rings. The numbers behind the pink arrows indicate the number of screw connections of the clamping rings, the blue numbers belong to the SSWS around the left hole behind the LOX TSM, and the green numbers belong to the SSWS around the right hole behind the LH2 TSM.
  
  Striking feature is the fact that the type of clamping rings respectively the number of its screw connections is not the same on both sides, for whatever reason,  what should not disturb us.
  
  Thus, there are nine clamping rings with four screw connections and 19 with six screw connections. This then gives all in all 150 screw connections, which would be to scratch, if you like it ...
  
  
• #785 by roma847 on 21 Jul, 2015 16:48
• Hi Guys,
  
  perhaps you will ever wonder why it does not go on here, but there is a reason.
  
  Due to a discussion in our German forum in the meantime  I have dealt for a change with the  Rainbirds, which are also parts of the  SSWS.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Of which there are well known, six of them, the outer four are slimmer than the two in the middle standing who are somewhat thicker and have a conical midsection.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Here's even an interesting comparison, with regard to the size of these monster birds. The guy in the image is Andrew Scheer, who was very close to the base until the dismantling of Pad 39B and has taken lots of great photos. And with its 1,85 m, a stately guy, but next to the giant bird rather a dwarf. 
  
  
  Source: flickr.com (Andrew Scheer)
  
  For the dimensions of the two different types of Rainbirds unfortunately I have found different information.
  
  In the NASA Facts (SSWS) one finds that the Rainbirds are 12' (3,7 m) high. The two middle birds have a diameter of 42'' (1,07 m), the other four are against with 30'' (0,76 m) slightly slimmer.
  
  In the MLP Report[/url] I found on the other hand, that all Rainbirds only have a height of 10'-6'' (3,2 m), including the sloping hood that has a diameter of 6' was (1,83 m).
  Here you will find for the two middle Rainbirds a diameter of 4' (1,22 m), while the other four 2'-6'' (0,76 m) to have what would correspond to the first source.
  
  Well, which source one can believe?
  
  Therefore NASA drawings would be very helpful for clarifying the question, but I have so far not yet have found. 
  
  Because I have scratch built the TSMs in 1:144 in order to fit to the shuttle stack my Rainbirds should also purely optical accord with. That's why I've also looked once again at the Rainbird templates from David Maier's Paper Kit (1:144).
  
  
  
  As you can see, all six Rainbirds of him are uniformly cylindrical, also the two centrally located Birds N2 and N5. While thereafter for the Rainbird N5 (behind the Stair housing) has a diameter of 8,4 mm, the remaining five each having a diameter of 7,2 mm.
  
  And to get an idea of the size of the Rainbirds on the MLP, I'll just build a bird from the Paper kit, then we'll see.
  That's it for today. 
  
  
• #786 by shuttlemodeler on 22 Jul, 2015 04:43
• im sure you have these but i thought i would send them to you anyway

  ---

  

  

  

  

  

  
• #787 by roma847 on 22 Jul, 2015 13:15
• Thanks Tom for your photos, of which I know most.
  
  A friend of mine from the ARC Forums has sent me this estimation, he made with Solidworks, which is truly a great 3D CAD software.
  
  
  
  He could be right, because the leading edge of the hood is still a little higher. On the other hand, the diameter would be only 0.70 m, while the NASA indicates 0.76 m.
  
  I also have converted the dimensions in this photo based on Andrew's height but have some doubts. 
  
  Too bad that nobody has drawings of the Rainbirds.
• #788 by shuttlemodeler on 22 Jul, 2015 14:10
• another reference
  http://www.nasa.gov/536947main_Wings2.html
  
  the water, released just prior to
  main engine ignition, flowed through
  pipes measuring 2.1 m (7 ft) in
  diameter for about 20 seconds.
  The mobile launcher platform deck
  water spray system was fed from
  six 3.7-m- (12-ft)-high water spray
  diffusers nozzles dubbed “rainbirds.”
• #789 by roma847 on 22 Jul, 2015 17:32
• Hello Tom,
  
  thanks for the reference, but which page is that?
  
  Okay, I think, that the height in the NASA Facts of 3.7 m will be even more accurate than the 3.2 m in the MLP Report.
  
  The only question is, what height is meant by that, H1, H2 oder H3?
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  The absolute height is H1, in which the mounted H-profiles on the sloping hood are included, but is this the height 3.70 m?
  
  The answer my friend ... 
  
  
• #790 by roma847 on 22 Jul, 2015 22:00
• Hello everybody,
  
  since we are now already drifted to the Rainbirds, I have constructed one of the birds from the Paper Kit by David Maier (1:144) to get an idea of the size on the MLP. And I must say, that's not easy to have to handle again with scissors and paper.
  
  These is Rainbird N 5, which has this pipe back, which is only indicated in the typical style of David Maier.
  
  
  
  On the left stands the sleeve (Ø 8,5 mm), right beside it a sleeve of the other birds which have all the same diameter (7.3 mm).
  The preparation of the hood was a little tricky, whereat initially irritated me that only four fold lines were declared for the lateral struts.
  
  First I tried to fold this about 1 mm wide strips next to the fold lines, which would then have to be glued together, but what I have soon abandoned.
  
  Therefore, I have separated this ring at the fold lines and then folded the narrow strips and glued together, what looks so in about as it was probably provided by the master.
  
  
  
  In the original, however, the struts adjacent to the front opening are angle profiles, the rear two are T-profiles, and up on the roof sit two double-T- or H-profiles, as you can see here well.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Then came the roof cap, which had to be folded several times to hint the H-profiles,
  
  
  
  and was glued up on the top.
  
  
  
  Apart of the simplifications, the similarity with the original is unmistakable.
  
  
  
  And also the visual impression on the MLP is pretty neat, although the Rainbird appears a bit too thick. 
  
  
  
  
  
  Nevertheless, I will but try to get closer to the original by the already indicated Scratch variant, what certainly means more effort, but so be it.
  
  
• #791 by Ronpur50 on 23 Jul, 2015 13:45
• That looks great, and I can't wait to see your version!!
• #792 by roma847 on 24 Jul, 2015 12:17
• Thanks Ron for your nice words, I'm glad if you like it.
  
  Hi folks,
  
  the construction of the Rainbirds in themselves certainly should not be a big problem, especially since their tubular structure should not be excessively difficult.  
  
  More headaches prepare me, however rather the lot of screws on the flange rings, I want to indicate somehow, the only question is how? 
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  Since the Paper kit variant but appears to highly abstracted and also to brawny, I have calculated the essential dimensions of the two Rainbird types based on my reference photos, here first for the bigger birds with the conical midsection.
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  As reference dimension I have chosen again the diameter (4.0 mm) of  24'' pipe, approximately beside the rainbird.
  
  After my first estimate I get for this rainbird type to approximately 132 screws, of whom there are two. For the other four slender rainbirds I come respectively to 78 screws, so together makes 576 screws, if I don't have miscalculated!!!
  
  For the screws dimensions I tend to Ø 0,5 mm and 1 mm in length, for which one could use Evergreen rods. For their assembly but still I have to come up with a suitable solution, since their distance should be about half a screw diameter, what looks like a rather stressful action.
  
  
• #793 by roma847 on 24 Jul, 2015 15:06
• Hi all,
  
  for this action, I've been thinking about the following mounting template, which I will try now.
  
  For the spacers between the screws I use Styrene strips 0,4x1,5 mm, and in between I glue with MEK in each case strips 0,5x1,0 mm. And in the interstices are then inserted round rods Ø 0.5 mm for the screws.
  
  
  
  Here firstly is space for the first 9 of up to 36 screws.
  
  
  
  To be continued, so stay curious guys.
  
  
• #794 by roma847 on 24 Jul, 2015 16:45
• Hi all together,
  
  and here comes the next step. Let's go to work!
  
  Before I'll build the whole mounting template, I first wanted only start with the right side and try with one screw ring, how or whether my idea can ever be realized.
  
  
  
  And then there was already a nasty surprise when selecting the Evergreen rods with Ø 0.5 mm for screws, as if Ø 0,5 mm!!!
  
  Since I have a fairly good sense of proportion, I have immediately noticed the scattering of the diameters of the rods in a package, both within a rod and rod-to-rod that has shocked me really.
  
  That goes from Ø 0.41 mm to 0.6 mm, and so one has the agony of choice, and this is in my view quite simply botch!
  
  Well, no matter, for the first test I have used a rod with a diameter of 0.46 mm to 0.52 mm and cut into about 8 mm long pieces, that I've inserted into the gaps.
  
  
  
  Since the screws have a certain distance from the wall, as you can see here well,
  
  
  Source: NASA
  
  I have glued to the inside of the flange ring a carrier strip (0,25x1,5 mm) on the screws, in which I have brushed the strip with MEK only at the supernatants.
  
  
  
  
  
  And that's already the trimmed strip in which on the circumference of the pipe (Ø 5,5 mm) for the slender Rainbirds only 21 screws have found a place. The number of screws could be further increased if one would use for the spacers in place of the 0.4 mm only 0.25 mm thick strips.
  
  Since this should be the screw ring for one of the slim birds, standing on the Blast deck, there is only one flange ring at the bottom. Therefore, the screws are flush separated and have upwards an overhang of about 1 mm.
  
  
  
  This somewhat uneven supernatants can certainly be equalized.
  
  
  
  And now came up the thrilling act of gluing this screw strip on the pipe. Here I first lightly rounded the beginning of the strip and then glued with CA. And then it went in two or three steps further around the circumference, in which the longer strip has been very helpful. Because so I could calmly determine the point of cutting off the rest.
  
  
  
  And thereafter the short end was only to glue with CA, and so the result looks like.
  
  
  
  And now I am surprised how great it has become yet, or not?
  
  
  
  Now comes even outside a Strip 0,25x0,5 mm above the screws.
  But now occurs to me that I wanted to make the carrier strip for this Rainbird type actually just 0.75 mm wide, because the 1.5 mm wide strip I had only intended for the double screw flanges. But that's no big deal, I will consider this in the other rings.
  
  Anyway, I'm happy that my conception can be realized in principle, as I thought to myself.
  
  
• #795 by Ronpur50 on 24 Jul, 2015 16:50
• Wow!!!
• #796 by Darren_Hensley on 24 Jul, 2015 20:32
• I don't think you need to space the bolts. Rather just line them up next to each other, and then curve them around the cylinder as before. The curving action will make them separate just slightly and you can get more on the cylinder to make them appear as if you have the right count. Just my two cents, but I have found this technique effective in the past.
• #797 by roma847 on 24 Jul, 2015 22:02
• Thanks Ron and Darren for your nice words and tipps.
  
  But a little gap must already be as on the original, otherwise there would be too many screws too.
  
  Today I have glued an outer cover strip from 0.1 mm sheet which, although with 1.5 mm is too wide for the flange at the bottom, but to see the effect.
  
  
  
  This results in a diameter of 7.3 mm, which would fit well. However, the spaces between the screws are there not filled. Therefore, I have filled them with white wood glue, what looks quite good. 
  
  
  
  
• #798 by roma847 on 29 Jul, 2015 10:45
• Hello everybody,
  
  as already announced, I have glued  a new mounting template for the screw rings, and I have used this time with 0,25x1,5 mm thinner strips as spacers, which has so far designed for 24 screws. 
  
  
  
  That was again a tedious procedure, but whatever.
  
  
  
  Here are both templates for comparison, at the top the previous with space for 21 screws, and bottom the new 24 screws.
  
  
  
  And then I've built a second template as a counterpart for the left side in an analogous manner and been quite astonished when I put both sides next to each other in order to insert the 0,5 mm rods for the bolts.
  
  
  
  Look at that,   despite same profiles and gaps for each 24 screws it resulted in this length difference, whereby the gaps of course no longer match, hard to believe but true. 
  
  I can only explain so, that I for the left side of the template for pushing together and gluing the strip pairs of spacers (0,25x1,5 mm) and placeholders (0,5x1,0 mm) for the rods probably more pressure could have exercised than for the right side. Because by the brushing of thin strips with MEK these are softened, and could thus be closely moved together, which then adds. And the tolerances of strips also possibly are added again. 
  
  No matter, in any case, I'll just use only one of the two templates to insert the rods and then insert  only strips as a spacers between the ends of the rods. That should but actually go, I guess.
  
  
• #799 by wyzandrea on 04 Aug, 2015 06:13
• Good job, I have planed to recommend you try it again because of the fragments. While you persevere in it without knockout!