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#60 by roma847 on 10 Dec, 2012 05:55
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Hi Oliver,
that's a nice idea, to surprise all of us with a "Challenger 30th Anniversary Special",
I'm pleased and I'm very curious.
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#61 by roma847 on 10 Dec, 2012 18:57
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So, and because the first prototype already had succeeded completely well, directly still the second ladder cage should follow. Now I have refined some handles somewhat, whereby the procedure should be simplified.
This time I've glued the vertical bracers next to each other in the necessary distance on two thin masking tapes. This 'bracer lattice' I put then around the core and fixed it together with the ladder with some masking tapes too. That could be done in any case more simply than with the first time, I had presented the bracers just separately and had fixed them successively with masking tapes. And then again rings under the hot-air hair dryer were wound and cut from it.
Afterwards I glued the first ring only at one side of the ladder as starting point. After the Superglue has hardened I pulled the ring loop something to the side and successively dabbed all splices on the bracers with Superglue and immediately thereafter pulled the ring loops with the tweezers in one turn around the bracers and let them glue. One can still make quite small position corrections, if one hurries somewhat. And in such a way that could be done actually completely well and the ring sat rather exactly on the marking.
and here the other side with the endpoints. The supernatant ends were cut off and finally all outside splices to the ladder were carefully sanded.
And there now both ladder cages stand and wait for the finish, the recesses for the exit and in the end the painting.
And to the end still a nice matter of price for the eagle eyes among you: How do both ladder cages differ, which is your opinion? 
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#62 by OV135 on 11 Dec, 2012 21:05
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What did you use for the railings and stairs? I didn't have luck finding the appropriate scale part at the local hobby store.
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#63 by roma847 on 11 Dec, 2012 22:08
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I'll use railings and stairs from the railway modelers, size N in scale 1:160, because it's the same scale I use for my MLP.
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#64 by roma847 on 11 Dec, 2012 22:24
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I admit gladly that it is also not completely simple to recognize the difference which I did not notice at all also long time.
The right (new) ladder cage has 2 vertical bracers just more than the first cage left, i.e. 7, to hardly believe, isn't it? But truely, look at the last picture again exactly!!!
With regarding the ladder cages it always depends on the point of view, and there is all too often the case that bracers totally overlap by the cage roundness every now and then and/or that one sees a bracer exactly from its narrow side, where it appears to one then nearly only as line and therefore during counting will survey. But I looked at meanwhile a lot of such photos (if possible HiRes) and again and again measured the details at the screen, and only by it one slowly receives then so an experienced view for it by accurate to then look.
Favorably for it therefore photographs of the side are, less favorably photographs directly from the front are, because the lateral bracers are not to be recognized there nearly.
With the differences of the ladder cages with the MLP's 2 and 3 in the comparison to the MLP-1 I do not want at all to deal now, whom it interests, which can inquire, the difference is only slightly, but nevertheless saliently.
At first I counted also only 5 and/or 6 bracers. Therefore here again an enlargement of a well-known photo, on which one can recognize the 7 vertical bracers just as still separately despite the blur, admitted with somewhat good will, and/or if one knows it then, it is not a problem. Therefore now to taking in account from 1 to 7, whereby one should pay attention to the shadow and back tapers.
And now eagle eyes,
attention please!
Source: NASA
And the difficulty for the eye at the latest now becomes clearly with recognizing the individual bracers, hopes I nevertheless at least, because middle 4th and the 5th bracers are to be only recognized separately by the experienced eye as thin lines. May be for someone that it is now nearly already like as nitpicking, or?
Whereupon I came by checking the distances between the bracers on photos, which should amount to converted on 1:160 only approx. 1.4 mm, which had appeared to realize me at first with the building of the first cage as nearly impossible. Therefore I had distributes only 5 bracers evenly at the extent with the first attempt, outgoing from middle bracer. From this then bracer distances of nevertheless approx. 2 mm resulted with the first cage, which is a little to much.
Therefore I decided to distribute with the second cage with exercise and somewhat more skillful technology 7 bracers at the extent which is quite still feasible, as one can see. And now once more look again exactly at the picture with the two ladder cages and you can count 5 bracers to the left and 7 to the right cage, isn't it?
Clearly, the difference is not noticeable anyway nearly, if one does not know it. And therefore I will use the ladder cage also still in other place of the Pad.
And at the opportunity to the end still another small supplement for the sake of completeness. At the left Access Platform was added still another cross-beam between the two outside diagonal bracers, which was still missing so far. And in this recess at the corner of the platform, which is by the way missing in David Maiers kit also, then the left ladder cage sits.
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#65 by OV135 on 12 Dec, 2012 14:10
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What scale would work for the railing and stairs for my model? I looked on Evergreen and Plastruct's sites and can't find anything to match what I am looking for.
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#66 by roma847 on 12 Dec, 2012 16:20
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I have determined the height of the MLP from a photo, which should be 15.8 mm for your 1:72.
The height of the railing for my 1:160 is 6.5 mm.
I think, that railing of the model railroad – scale H0 1:87 probably comes the closest for your build, or but ship railing.
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#67 by roma847 on 12 Dec, 2012 22:10
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Today's post is more a consideration in preparation for further steps than strong building, what however can be quite also helpful. In addition I out-looked for myself now the LH2-Pipe supports for the Side 4 of the Paper kit, which looks similar as the LOX-Supports on the Side 2, whereby there are however some differences:
On the one hand there are even 10 supports on this side, however only with two openings for the two LH2-Pipes, and on the other hand they have different overall heights, which makes the work more difficult naturally already somewhat. If one looks exactly, one can recognize that the distances of the pipes in the supports become larger from left to right, thus from Side 1 to Side 3, and thus the support heights of LH 4 A to LH 4 J gradually rise. Best one can recognize by the increasing strength of the small middle bars between the pipes, which are represented only as stubs in the Paper kit, strange to say again why not continuous.
The first four supports LH 4 A-D are equal high, afterwards the height up to the last support LH 4 J rises gradually altogether by 4 mm.
While the LOX Pipes on the Side 2 runs almost parallel to each other, the LH2-Pipes runs to the rear increasingly apart thereby, which one clearly can see in this photo.
Source: NASA
From the constructional structure the Side 4 supports resembles those on the Side 2, why for the support frameworks again I-beams 1,5x1,2 mm are used.
And there we straight with Pipe supports are, there are also still special supports at the MLP corners, which look different all, but are noticeable to one first hardly. These supports serve for the stabilization of the line sheets at the corners of the Side as well as the connection points for the Pad inlets at the corners of the Side 3 and are to give an absolutely firm connection. Here are a few photos of it:
Here at the corner of the Side 1/Side 2,
Source: J. Patterson (NASASpaceFlight.com)
at the corner of the Side 2/Side 3,
Source: NASA
at the corner of the Side 3/Side 4,
Source: NASA
as well as at the corner of the Side 4/Side 1.
Source: NASA
In the Paper kit one sees, how small these four corner-supports are, so that it would probably hardly be noticeable, if one would omit it.
And here are the associated assembly sketches:
I still considering whether and/or how I can scratch-build these corner-supports best from sheet.
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#68 by roma847 on 13 Dec, 2012 14:54
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But before it continues to go with the Pipe supports, only still the second Ladder cage for the other corner of Side 1 was tackled, here is a picture of the preparation of the longitudinal prop shutter, which is then put around the core.
In this fixed condition by masking tapes if necessary the distances between the longitudinal props can be balanced with the tweezers some more.
The rings are already wrapped as you can see, are now scattered and then glued in the best way in the gaps around the longitudinal props.
And thus the two ladder cages are also managed and can go in the paint shop.
Now I have trial bent the LOX-pipes for the corner-flow on the Side 1/Side 2, after I previously made somewhat docile it with the hot air dryer and made a first provisional fitting while the correct pipe supports on the left pallet of the Access platform but still missing.
And finally even a small addition to the Expansion Joints in the LOX-pipes. Now I have provided me lead wire with the appropriate diameter of 0.4 mm for the grey Vent line and made a pro covering. And that goes with the lead wire as lubricated, which is soft, allowing even balancing the coil slope.
And since I probably or evil anyway must divide the pipes into segments due to the expansion joints, I still stamped flange discs (Ø 3 mm) from 0.5 mm sheet with a croppers coming left and right next to it. Overall though something can be expensive, but because of the pipe support unfortunately unavoidable. The pipes just push through the supports, would be too easy. 
And, one could imagine the smaller expansion joints in the white Transfer line as a package of three such discs with small spacers, similar to the next image.
But maybe I should better take somewhat thinner sheet (0.3-0.4 mm) for these discs.
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#69 by roma847 on 16 Dec, 2012 20:59
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So, but now it really goes on with the Pipe Supports on Side 4. Because the LH2 Pipes on this side with 2.5 or 2.0 mm have bigger diameters than the LOX Pipes on Side 2, therefore also the pipe supports are slightly larger and more stable than on Side 2. I had described in detail the differences already in a previous post.
A peculiarity of the Side 4-Pipe supports is that the grey LH2 Vent Line rest on roller bearings, while the white Transfer Line rest on normal cups with Teflon pads. The different bearings and more robust implementation of the Pipe Supports in particular to the end of Side 4 is beautifully seen on this photo.
Source: NASA
The size differences between the supports on Side of 4 (rising from left to right) and those on Side 2 (same size) become again clearly visibly in the next picture on the basis of Back up-Templates of the Paper kit.
On the next picture you can see some of the used profiles, as well as my mounting template. For the frame I used I-beam 1,5x1,2 mm and for the cross bracers Evergreen strips 1,5x0,25 mm and 0,75x0,25 mm.
And because the pipe supports are so tiny and one don't look at how much effort still stuck in them, their fitting is to show more detailed in the following pictures:
First, the two vertical parts of the frame are positioned on the template.
As favourable for glueing using a spacer bar turns, so that the distance between the parts of the frame and thus support width is always the same.
Afterwards, the two upper narrow cross bracers (0,75x 0,25 mm) are glued, were measured slightly longer for the better handling during Superglue-bonding and therefore easily survive. Before glueing the bottom wider cross bracer, but it remains the slanted framework piece must be glued because its position is covered by the broader cross bracer.
To do so, the spacer bar is taken from the template and the support removed. Next the slanted piece of frame can be prepared, tailored and then glued.
And now also the lower broader cross bracer can be glued.
And then the cross bracers on the other side of the support are glued in the same way.
And now missing only the bearings for the pipes. Here I indicated the bottom roller bearing with an U-beam, 1,7x 0,9 mm, and for the upper bearing an Evergreen strip 1,5x 0,25 mm was used. For size comparison, you can see above the last missing support from Side 2.
These are only nice small parts, but also want to be configured only once, and that takes some time.
Here are the first four Pipe supports for Side 4, which are not longer than 15 mm.
And the two LH2 Pipes fit through the holes with the supports, so all okay.
And, as already described, the next support is then somewhat longer than the first four.
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#70 by OV135 on 17 Dec, 2012 15:17
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Have you thought to make resin molds to make copies of the original parts? The scratchbuilt part you originally made and then make a mold of it to make resin copies of. It saves money and time with some parts.
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#71 by roma847 on 17 Dec, 2012 20:48
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No, I have not thought about resin molds for copies. These are all much to various parts with a difficult shape.
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#72 by roma847 on 17 Dec, 2012 21:05
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And it continues with the remaining six Pipe supports for the Side 4. As already mentioned, the supports on this side are making little more work because it from the front (Side 1) after rear (Side 3) become gradually longer, and therefore for the parts again and again measure must be included.
A support consists of 11 parts, so that total as 110 parts were to process. This was a pretty hard job, but now it's finally done, and my stressed eyes can recover somewhat.
From left to right, you can clearly see the increasing length of the supports despite slight blur.
By the fact that in addition to the length of the supports the middle cross bracers from the front to the back are gradually increasing, the LH2 pipes run necessarily somewhat apart, what but so must.
So, therefore a certain dry spell has been overcome now, which has held up pretty, and after painting the supports, pipes on both sides can be shifted then finally. I will warn the guys in the paint shop ever, that they should do the job quickly so that it can go further.
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#73 by OV135 on 18 Dec, 2012 14:26
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I can tell by your model how much fun my build will be. I've yet to begin.
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#74 by roma847 on 18 Dec, 2012 21:35
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I'm already curious and excited about your first photos.
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#75 by roma847 on 18 Dec, 2012 22:09
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As there were not enough Pipe supports on both sides of the MLP, but the pipes must be held also on Side 1, and to do this you need which there again. Because I am just so beautiful in exercise, I wanted to exploit the momentum and I occupied myself therefore first of all with the supports of the LOX-Pipes on the Left pallet of the Access platform, which look different to the supports to both sides and present rather typical tube mounts known.
Good photos, where one can see details, are rather scarce, which is why I had to already a little search and research. Finally, I have found but some useful shots that well can be seen the different supports, which are seen in this photo.
Source: http://www.capecomespace.net
The supports marked with red arrows wear the lower LOX-Transfer line, which was still white on Side 2, but also grey from the corner. And the supports marked with green arrows wear the above and behind running LOX-Vent line.
You can see unfortunately not much with regard to the supports, from D. Maier's Paper kit. As you can see in the following picture, the supports of LH 1 (Vent line, above) and LH 1A (Transfer line, below) hang of the pipe segments off and will certainly make lots of fun during the rolling and gluing the pipes on the I don't like but to.
The arrangement of the LOX-Pipes looks in the paper kit also again different than in the original. As you can see from the Assembly map, the pipes run to D. Maier on the pallet that is located immediately before the Side 1 directly in a row, what but so is wrong.
As previously several times was to see in photos, the left pallet is located roughly in the middle of the Access platform, and the pipes have a significant distance from each other.
Source: NASA
I've fiddled some time around, how to scratch build the supports the best and tried several types, which can be seen in the following images.
The supports for the Transfer line are only about 1 mm high and were made of different Evergreen strips.
And here, the first finished prototype is a real mite, indeed,
and here the sample for fitting on the pallet:
The supports for the vent line are higher and somewhat more robust built. Here I have to juggle something with the height. For the base I used first H-beam 2 x 2 mm. The height of this prototype but with 3 mm was unfortunately a bit too low for the required pipe height.
Therefore I have made the second type with little slender foot (H-beam of 1,5 x 1,2 mm) little higher with 4 mm, what better fit.
Here you see both prototypes, where the foot of rear seemed too strong but as something.
And here is the fitting of the supports on the pallet.
While the three supports of the Transfer line are the same, the third (inner) support of the Vent line is wider than the first two, a double execution, as on this point a junction in front of a drain blind flange is located to the LOX-Valve skid on the right pallet, good to see as here on one of the earlier photos.
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com (J. Patterson)
So, now I need to build "only just" rest supports for this pallet.
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#76 by roma847 on 19 Dec, 2012 17:56
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Hello, and let's go!
Here are the two remaining Pipe supports for the LOX-Vent line on the left pallet.
As you can see, the second support differs from the first by a cut-out, and that has its reason. Repeated exact looking at the supports on photos I noticed, that the LOX-Transfer line running immediately in front of the supports of the LOX-Vent line exactly at this point has an Expansion joint (green arrow), which takes his place.
Source: http://www.capecomespace.net
And so look the supports on the pallet.
Then I have looked again in the paint shop and asked me after the progress of work,
but so far all has been prepared and wanted to get started right. The ladder cages also still were on the list.
And behold, it goes forward but. The grey LH2 Vent line and the Evergreen's profile for the oblique bracers with same they painted, great job done.
And the Ladder cages are now also as far as ready for the assembly, are set but still aside. A joint had resolved itself and must be glued again.
Now can it go actually with the assembly of the Pipe supports on Side 4. Here, only the different sizes of supports must be observed so that then the gradient of the pipes is also true.
That is now done, and thus the Side 4 looks now also already quite passable.
And here again something up close.
Now, only the lateral oblique bracers missing, which are to be installed tomorrow.
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#77 by roma847 on 20 Dec, 2012 19:44
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And here is a further update, so to speak, the look-up to the Pipe supports on Side 4.
There were to assemble "merely" the lateral bracers, are installed the times right, time left, but from photos like this in HiRes (click) is good to see.
Source: NASA
And here are the prepared 20 bracers from Evergreen strip 0,75x0,25 mm for the 10 pipe supports:
The glueing of the bracers with Superglue was again nothing for the faint-hearted, but rather what for quiet hands, and was hard to make without stopping your breath when attaching the bracers to the supports. 
But ultimately all bracers sit in place, thank God. And that seems out of Side 3 to the front to Side 1:
The different side order of the bracers should be to recognize.
So, that's it then for today.
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#78 by roma847 on 21 Dec, 2012 20:31
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And here is a further update on Side 4, because we are just so beautiful here. Before there the LH2 pipes will be permanently installed, there is a nice little thing to do, which would make otherwise unnecessary circumstances. There are namely in the Bay 16 four so-called Pneumatic Vent Mufflers, how I now have be explained. These elongated parts here are:
Source: NASA
On Side 2 there are two similar parts in the Bay 3, which are arranged horizontally:
Source: NASA
These parts are pneumatic outlets for venting the LH2- and LOX-Vent lines, because without ventilation are not a fuel that could be otherwise filled through the Transfer lines.
The Vent mufflers on Side 4 look in the Paper kit:
Only simple tubes, with the lower lines are only hinted at what was released but again too simple would be. Here, such model is time to see.
Because I don't love so much these implied Maier Kit Details, I wanted to scratch-build the mufflers first fully plastic and had been prepared already the two round profiles. Then I have only scratch-built the bottom lines and used but the upper parts with the opening, what looks together quite well:
Here I however separately glued the glue seam of the tube, so that is not an edge, and glued a plastic core to stabilise and a small U-beam as bracket. The line is a 1 mm round profile with a ring made of 0.5 mm lead wire to hint the connection clamp. And so the other three Vent mufflers look:
And here after mounting on the MLP wall:
And here you can see now probably also why the Vent mufflers had to come before the final installation of the LH2 pipes tuned.
So long.
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#79 by roma847 on 22 Dec, 2012 18:37
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And because I was just at such small things, here a short update concerning furter pipe brackets details. There are next to the Expansion joints even so-called Pipe anchors. Additional brackets which will probably stabilize these slightly weaker areas of the fuel pipes are as seen here in the picture on the Side 4 in the detail right can see above. The front 3rd Expansion joint on this side (far left) is stabilized by the corner-pipe support at the Side 1.
Source: United Space Alliance: STS-111 Flight Readiness Review, GO-18 (2002)
These are only very small parts, which can hardly be seen behind the pipes, but they are now included. And since I now know that they exist, I tried also to scratch-build this. Since they directly sit on the vertical reinforcement bars, I have used H-beams 2,5x2,3 mm, at least to indicate the anchors.
So, I will return to the Side 2 and want to finally start the installation of the LOX-pipes. But first I must scratch build the corner pipe support, here relatively good to see is in these two images, so that one can identify in about the dimensions for scratching.
Source: NASA
Source: NASA
