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#180 by RichO on 07 Apr, 2013 23:48
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MANFRED, I like the two solutions that you came up with. It looks like both solutions involve some major surgery, but I also like option #2 better than option #1. I think that option #1 may be less work, but option #2 feels better.
I am interested to see how you handle the water guench nozzels beside the blast chambers. It seems that in iether case they will have to be relocated somewhat, a little more geometry to figure out, but then again most people might not even notice this if the relocation is not to radical.
your solution for the TSM's still seems solid tho. I'm realy anxious and excited to see how you pull this off, because this is a huge lurning experience for me at this point, just to see how someone else develops a solution to this type of problem.
I have not quite desided which MLP I will be building at this point. I do feel that Edu-Craft paper kit will be what I will be working with for a base starting point. I have yet to finish my current project,( Micro Artwork crawler)and I still need to gather some more parts for my build. Also I heard that LVM Studios has a new PE sheet #5 ready to be released soon. However with what I see with your build I'm sure that you will super detail the LUT in the same fassion as the MLP. I had considered the 1:144 shuttle LUT from Edu-Craft to start with, but I'm not quite sure of the detail of this kit. Perhaps to use the paper one for a pattern and scratch build with Evergreen plastic beams and rods. An idea anyway, but I'm realy anxious about how you detail the LUT for this project.
You can email me, RichO, here at ([email protected]). I'm realy excited to communicate with someone from across the pond, (let alone the total otherside of the planet), that is working on the same project.
Manfred, good luck with your fixing and I'll keep watching, because I will have the same situation ahead of me.
Thanks again, RichO, Crawler 14/499 -
#181 by roma847 on 09 Apr, 2013 09:58
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RichO,
thanks for the kind words. I'm also really excited to communicate with some other modelers, to share experiences, as can be learned a lot.
Now, I have to improvise a lot and customize, if I want to re-size the SRB holes what will certainly not be easy,
but is not hopeless.
One must be clear from the beginning, if you want to use the old Revell Kit. You will have to make some compromises, or you have to build all OOB, even the small MLP, then there will be no problem.
It's very interesting, that you are building the Crawler by MicroArtwork, is it 1:96? This is a great model, can you show us some photos of it?
BTW I've also heard by Leon van Munster, that LVM Studios has a new Detail Kit No. 5 to be released soon, I'm very interested in.
Now I'm already curious on your first pictures!
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#182 by RichO on 09 Apr, 2013 20:56
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MANFRED, I would just like to say good luck on the SRB hole relocation, I know you can do it.
Yes, the Micro Artwork crawler is at 1:96. Is very complex and the parts are microscopic small. I will get photos presently and post these for everybody to critique and possibly help with building tips.
I to am a mixer, such as yourself. I will be replaceing the paper wireing with copper wire, I plan to use model railroad lighting to fully light the kit, and I plan to super detail the inside of engine rooms and control office also. I am also concidering casting my own tred shoes, and adding slot car moters so I can make my crawler crawl ( but not sure about this at present tho).
The full display I have planned has four main kits, the Crawler, MLP- LUT and Saturn v,( all Micro Artwork kits ( I just love the detail in these kits) with the MSS scratch built. I cant find any models of the MSS anywhere at all! Since the MSS is only a support structure it is very difficult to find desent photos or drawings for this. I have managed to find some tech drawings for this tho so not all is lost.
As for my space shuttle project, useing the revel kit OOB simply wont do. The scales are a little out of controll for me. This is why I am so interesred to see how you are building your display.
So back to work, I'll keep watching. RichO
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#183 by roma847 on 11 Apr, 2013 08:10
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Thanks RichO for your wishes for my emergency surgery,
I hope it will work so far and will start today. 
Can't wait to see your Micro Artwork crawler at 1:96 and your first steps. Wow, very interesting, that you plan to fully light the kit etc., I'm curious.
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#184 by roma847 on 11 Apr, 2013 08:27
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Hello Guys,
all this has left no peace about me, and therefore I've perused again exactly the MLP Report, which contains the exact dimensions of the equipment on the MLP upper deck (0 Level, p. 19). And therefore, I must correct my previous statements about D. Maiers templates. Its templates (sorry David) are absolutely correct,
what affects the SRB- and SSME holes and the TSMs and I suspect that he has the dimensions from the MLP Report too.
SRB holes: LxW=42'x20' = 89x42 mm (1:144)
SSME hole: LxW=34'x31' = 72x66 mm (1:144)
The 1:144 dimensions of the SRB holes therefore are not entirely correctly in the AXM templates. The length is not 82 mm but 89 mm, and the width not 40 mm but 42 mm.
And also the TSM's placement on D. Maier's template looks correct, but the TSM's on the AXM template seems to sit too close to the shuttle's wings.
Still the shorter AXM length of course will fit better to my 1:160 MLP!!!
So it can be taken into account by all modelers.
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#185 by roma847 on 11 Apr, 2013 10:41
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I've been thinking about the possible variants of the adaptation of the SRB holes in an emergency surgery. Here, I will probably widen the SRB holes on 1:144, and adjust the length in a tolerable level, possibly to 1:150 ... 1:155 ...
Here are two photos, first on the AXM template,
and here on the MLP.
I think it will run out probably now to an emergency surgery,
and therefore fingers crossed for the quiet time, I have already some similar surgery successfully behind me.
Therefore keep the safety first and air!
And so with the courage of despair and fresh impetus just purely in the emergency surgery.
In a first surgery I've removed the middle four Hold down posts in the SRB holes what was relatively harmless. The other four on the front walls stick fixed, be replaced also.
After that I did the SRB-Blast shields piece by piece carefully until the TSMs dissolved and removed, which also still relatively good went to, and then looks like:
In the meantime I have chosen as well as for the modification of the SRB holes, i.e. with the width I'll go on the 1:144 level, and with the length to 1:150, which corresponds to the green line. So blast shields would go about 10 mm beyond the blast deck, why I must move the deck this 10 mm backwards. To create this space, I'll probably cut the blast deck along the line with the red arrows, and put back the front part. Thus the two Rain birds (green arrows) to this small move while piece next to rear, what but to get over,
and the Blast shields back flush with the Blast deck off. 
And so the stack would then sit across the SRB holes, what actually made quite well together and would have to fit the proportions, and thus would be even enough space for the SSWS pipes and Water bags.
As far as for today, tomorrow, come the deeper cuts off ...
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#186 by roma847 on 15 Apr, 2013 09:38
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I've decided yet different and I'll go to 1:155!
And now guys it goes right to the thing,
I only have to think about just the right battle plan where and how I best start and with which tools.
To do this I must look again at my old photos from the start-up phase, as I had built the substructure. Then I know roughly where I come out with my cuts through the hardboard either/hopefully in the cavity, or in the Balsa wood.
The cut line of the long sides will be probably right behind the inner shaft wall. As a result, the rear wall will need also away.
And here is the drawing for the modified SRB.
Firstly, I've tried carefully a few cuts with the mini saw,
and then drilled a few holes for the saw to come through the upper hardboard.
The sawing but not particularly went well, maybe I came out even in the side wall which saw stuck in more often and which has repeatedly jammed. That's why I took up then the Dremel,
and with the blade the hardboard through scratched up on the Balsa wood.
And then it painstakingly went piece by piece with saws, chisels and cutters in depth, and that hurt me in the soul and is genuine to the howling ...
This was overall quite stressful, but there also no whining helps.
Finally, I have cannibalized both shafts up to the lower hardboard in the truest sense of the word,
and can draw the bottom hardboard for the cuts now.
Now gotta only strongly take a deep breath ...
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#187 by RichO on 16 Apr, 2013 17:43
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MANFRED, I was just heart broken to see the SRB holes in such sad shape. It dose look like the surgury is going well tho. Good job Doc!
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#188 by cneth on 16 Apr, 2013 19:05
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And then it painstakingly went piece by piece with saws, chisels and cutters in depth, and that hurt me in the soul and is genuine to the howling
Manfred, I know English is probably not your first language, but this came out as pure poetry in English. Your work is excellent, and it pains me as well to see what you have had to do here.
Craig -
#189 by roma847 on 17 Apr, 2013 07:44
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Hi RichO and Craig,
thanks for your encouraging words and your compassion.
But the surgery is unfortunately not yet completed and I must prepare the next anaesthesia for my poor MLP, 
and a few calming drops for me.
It is a terrible feeling in the Valley of tears, but the situation is not hopeless, the patient will survive.
I need the teeth together biting and me to concentrate fully, so that no other things to break. At the moment, it's all very sad, but I'll do it, the life will go on, and therefore keep your fingers crossed. 
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#190 by roma847 on 20 Apr, 2013 23:09
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Hello friends,
but first, I had to insert a break to gain some distance and to take new courage.
And further went to draw the new contours of the SRB hole openings on the hardboard on the bottom,
that I sawed out with the Mini saw.
Back flush with the shaft holes to insert the outer walls of the shafts, only remnants of the side support bars had to be removed. That was a pretty tedious action where there was lots of shavings and dust.
But then, it was finally done.
For a stable fit of the outer walls, I have again prepared supports of Balsa piece 15x15 mm and fit.
The side walls are again from 6 mm Balsa and fit quite well into the openings.
Now the parts must be glued only. The rear walls are then prepared in a similar way and incorporated, bringing the shafts again slowly take shape. 
Knock on wood! So far everything went well, so go on.
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#191 by Davp99 on 21 Apr, 2013 15:48
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Manfred, Remember into each Life, some Rain must Fall....just keep up the excellent work !!
David
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#192 by RichO on 21 Apr, 2013 17:37
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Manfred, It looks like the patient is going to live!!
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#193 by roma847 on 21 Apr, 2013 21:37
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Hi David and RichO,
thanks for your encouraging words and your compassion as well as for your fingers crossing. I am glad that this surgery worked out well so far, and I hope that the wounds will heal soon and no major scars remain.
There are also better days coming ...
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#194 by roma847 on 26 Apr, 2013 20:40
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And here are some new pictures from the site. These are the squared timbers for the support of the outer side walls,
they then together with the supports for the back walls were glued.
Then the side panels could be glued,
missing only the covers for backs.
And after that are finally glued, but everything looks already once again much more friendly, isn't it? 
Now I have to turn to the Blast deck that must be moved slightly backwards.
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#195 by RichO on 27 Apr, 2013 14:12
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MANFRED, Good job!! The blast chambers look like they never had a problem and are ready for interiour detail. Only a few more steps and you'll be right back to the water bags, Like nothin' ever happened. Keep up the good work!!!!
Richo, crawler 114/499 -
#196 by roma847 on 27 Apr, 2013 16:07
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Thanks RICHO for your encouraging words and that you don't let me down.
Now the SRB holes will get new borders as well as new Blast shields.
BTW, all that handling of the MLP was very delicate, as if I had a raw egg in my hands.
But all pipes and supports will remain intact, only the blind flange of the LOX-Transfer line on Side 2 is broken.
There was suddenly a silent crack, and he was gone ... hell and devil!!!
But I have searched and finally my eagle eyes also found him on the floor so that I can glue it again.
Therefore, I am glad, it had can be really much worse.
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#197 by Bubbinski on 27 Apr, 2013 20:07
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Good work on your repairs! Look forward to the finished product.
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#198 by roma847 on 27 Apr, 2013 20:55
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Thanks for your nice words, but the finishing of the complete Launch Pad will still be a long way ...
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#199 by roma847 on 30 Apr, 2013 16:44
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Hello all together now, here is the next update.
In addition to this modification of the SRB holes, is yet another important thing I must consider now but for a suitable positioning of 1:144 stack, which I recently soon had touched on: the location and size of the TSM's.
My guess was that the 1:160 TSM's of the paper kit would not fit so good from size or visually to the 1:144 stack. This concerns both the TSM height and thus the transition at the intersection of the TSM Umbilical Plate (i.e., the "plug") to the Ground umbilical attach point of the Orbiter (with the matching "socket") as the position or the distance of the TSM's of the orbiter wings.
Therefore I've provisorily put together the orbiter and taped on her back of the ET-SRB combi pack in order to perform a more accurate fitting test with the complete stack for better checkup of the location conditions. Because if necessary would have to Yes in the SSME hole and his Blast shield possibly even minor adjustments are made, what I want to avoid as possible.
And so the temporary stack looks now:
And so much to the proportions of the stack and the TSM's, that look already rather small compared to the stack, I find, isn't it? The size of the stack in comparison to the MLP appears rather too powerful by the vertical perspective. Regardless the difference in the scale of 1:144/1:160 already cannot be overlooked, but which is now a compromise solution.
And thus to the intersection of the Orbiter "socket" (red border) and the TSM "plug" (green lines) of the Umbilical attach point that now really are not at the same height level.
And the red arrow is intended to alert already on another important reference line for the TSM's height, is clearer in the next picture.
Source: NASA
As you can see, the top of the TSM is located on a contour with the wing marking in the preceding image (red arrow), and the umbilical interface between orbiter and TSM runs approximately horizontal. As a result the 1:160 TSM's are too low for the stack to my liking, because the stack is also still at about 1.5 mm higher by the missing SRB shields blast. What do you think about?
Therefore, I have put a 1:144 TSM (H=65 mm) from the Revell Kit compared to the left, and as you can see, whose upper edge ranges about to the marked reference line, which is even better to see in the next picture.
If I wanted to use the 1:160 TSM (H=57 mm), I would have to increase his height to approx. 8 mm what but visually likely should retire because of the printed details (door, pipes, etc.), isn't it?
As you can see in this picture, the TSM stands also slightly too close to the orbiter wing and would have to move a little bit further forward, what must be taken into account to the SSME Blast shield.
And so now the stack looks from the back, and as you can see, the SRB's fit now much better over the modified exhaust holes and have sufficient amount of space.
Now, I am however looking forward to your impressions and opinions.
P.S.:
And here is a small addition about the TSM's for all Space shuttle technology freaks, a fantastic NASA HD video
"Ascent - Commemorating Shuttle"
with phenomenal slow motion video sequences, by the way my favorite Shuttle video!!!
Among other things, you can see the full launch process and as of 9:34 the amazing function of the TSM umbilical mechanism in action, taken from inside of a TSM and much more interesting pics ... enjoy it!!!
The following image shows principle drawings of the swivel operation of this brilliant device:
Source: NASA
The TSM umbilical plates attached to the Shuttle right next to both OMS pods and when the stack rocks back and the SRB's ignite, the umbilical plates disappear into the TSM in the blink of an eye.
