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#1340 by roma847 on 14 Oct, 2017 21:01
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Hello everybody,
before the 14 supports (with lower strip) could be glued to the two gutters, they had to be scratch-built, of course, with full concentration, a calm hand and good eyes.
And already the gluing of the sickles on the tiny strips was again the expected tricky matter as with the gutters on the Side 2.
Since these are again the same procedures and handgrips, I will only briefly illustrate them by picture.
With a few supports as a reserve, the gluing of the supports onto the gutter continued.
After the bottom of the gutter was glued into the short piece, the outer support without strip was glued.
This time I did not glue the supports on the long gutter individually, but at the same time three at one go clamped between cutter edges.
Afterwards, the contact points on the gutter were dabbed with CA and then the core strip with the gutter were lowered to the supports and thus glued.
Subsequently the remaining five supports were glued.
Since the last support had not glued completely,
it was glued once more.
Next, the short initial gutter is glued to the long Gutter 1, this time with Gator's Grip.
Later, the Gutter 2 will follow.
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#1341 by roma847 on 16 Oct, 2017 22:35
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Hey folks,
yeah, yeah, yeah, still these boring gutters, I can not change it, sorry.
In the case of the dull gluing of the gutters, a smooth seating and an exact fixing of the position is very important, so that nothing can shift.
Then the seam was gently painted with Gator's Grip and let it to dry.
And as one can see, the gluing also holds this time.
Tomorrow I will carefully smooth the seam.
And so once again back to the Gutter 1 on the Side 2, where the two parts also had to be glued bluntly.
Here, at first, the fitting test of the two parts,
which I made this time even more securely aligned and stabilized before gluing.
And this gluing was also successful,
and can be smoothed tomorrow.
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#1342 by llanitedave on 18 Oct, 2017 14:47
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Manfred, as time goes on your work becomes ever more detailed and intricate. I expect by the time you get around to the orbiter, it will have working rocket engines!
This is great work! -
#1343 by roma847 on 18 Oct, 2017 21:47
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Thanks Dave for looking in on me and for your nice words,
slowly but surely I'm fed up with these fragile gutters with their tiny supports,
but luckily with Gutter 2 on Side 4 only still one of them left over, then I've made it.
BTW, with the orbiter you must be patient still a bit, because after the MLP I want to continue with the FSS and RSS, and then it's time for Her Majesty, the Challenger.
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#1344 by roma847 on 21 Oct, 2017 13:01
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Hello everybody,
and thus to the last round with these tiresome gutters.
Here was only still missing the Gutter 2 on the Side 4, the beginning of which is shown here.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
The gutter begins directly on the girder between the Bay 10 and 11 and then runs without interruption to the end of the Bay 18, whereby the last part behind the downspout becomes again lower towards the outside.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
And these are the two parts of the gutter.
At first, the gutter bottom was glued with CA, again using Teflon foil as gluing protection.
And then it went on with the supports,
And then it went on with the supports, which were clamped for exact fixing again between Cutter Blades.
Then I have left the gutter alone,
and thereafter examined the seat of the supports, which was okay.
This was followed by the last dull gluing of the two gutter parts with Gator's Grip,
which again has worked great.
Hence all five gutters with a total of 34 supports have finally been scratched,
above for the Side 2, and below for the Side 4, 
and now I feel truly relieved.
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#1345 by roma847 on 23 Oct, 2017 23:31
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Thanks guys for looking in on me.
Hello everybody,
after the wearisome Gutter chapter has been finished except for the paintwork, I want to take a relaxing look ahead and bring the highlight of the lighting of the MLP back into the game, which will soon be back on my agenda.
During my first inventory (2014) I had found these 21 lamps on the Side 1,
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
which I had to correct in hindsight, since the Lamp 5 during the STS-6 (1983) did still not exist, like one can see in this picture of the STS-28 (1989), but rather much later, whereby the number of lamps is reducing to 20.
Source: NASA
Since the wiring design of the Super-Current bank was construed on max. eight LEDs per circuit, my original lighting plan included these three circuits with a total of 20 lamps.
During the preparation of the later installation of the circuits on the model, it is important from a practical point of view to think about how the thin leads and the return conductors of the individual circuits should be laid preferably. Withal it is necessary to consider how to pass with leads and lamps through the narrow spaces under the canopies between the pipelines and struts and past the tiny fittings and also to glue them, whiat should not be so easy.
In my first lighting trials, the matter was easier, because I had then only provisionally laid the individual LED wires under the canopies, which now inevitably needs to be done differently in the final solution.
That is why I have changed the division of the circuits, which now looks like this. Thus there will be a circuit (red) with eight LEDs connected in series, and two circuits with six lamps each.
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
Therefore I imagine the installation so that the three leads are led through the front right Pedestal, preferably detachable via mini-connectors,
in order to be able later to let drive the Crawler with the MLP a short piece on the Pad diorama.
In contrast to my original plan, it will be more favorable to lead the first circuit (red) along the wall to the right Access Platform and then under the LH2 Access Platform. As with the other two circuits, the return wires then run via a Ground (GND) bus below the left Access Platform and the front left pedestal.
The installation of the second circuit (yellow) will presumably be the most difficult act because the place under the Blast Shield over the valves of the LH2 Valve Skid is very tight, as one can easily see here.
But we'll work it out somehow ...
The installation of the third circuit (light blue) hopefully will be a bit easier, because there is more space above the LOX Valve Skid and under the left Blast shield.
As far as with this little trip to the illumination of the clouded minds.
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#1346 by roma847 on 05 Nov, 2017 22:23
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Hello friends,
after my gallstone calmed down again
and can stay on parole for the time being, where he is, I can finally turn the LED switch back again to clarify a few last details with the MLP lamps and try out.
First of all, I want to introduce my Super Current Bank, which a friend of mine had designed and built in an ingenious way for illumination of my Launch Pad Diorama.
Here again briefly to the profile of this "Marvel Box", whose performance capability we deliberately generously constructed, which provides the following Constant current circuits:
- 46 current circuits (adjustable from 0.6 ... 5.6 mA) for the normal lighting of the FSS/RSS, as well as of the MLP and the Crawler,
- 6 current circuits (adjustable from 0.6 ... 5.6 mA) for warning lights (switchable to flashing),
- 6 current cuits (fixed at 12 mA) for flood light poles on the pad,
- 2 current circuits (fixed at 220 mA) for the overall lighting of the diorama
In each of the two circuits (220 mA), 2 LEDs can be connected in series. In each of the other circuits, however, up to 8 LEDs can be connected in series. That gives the impressive number of total 464 LEDs (368 + 48 + 48),
which I will not exhaust corresponding to my previous planning. 
Before I react to the red LED (0401) for the Warning lights connected to the Current bank in the picture above, I have scrutinized once again the relevant lamp shapes for my pad model, initially adopted by the Apollo LUTs at the beginning of the Shuttle program and later replaced by more modern lamps.
At that time there were lamps both with reflector (Type A) and without reflector (Type E), and this type also with red globe (Type F), as it was used for the warning lights.
Source: NASA
In the Tower (FSS) and on the RSS the lamps with reflector were mostly installed,
Source: NASA
Source: NASA
for which I have used expanded ferrules (1 mm²) with inserted beads for fixing the LED wires. 
With the exception of lamps 2 and 3 (yellow) and lamp 2 (light blue), all lamps on the Side 1 are type A and have a reflector,
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
what one can see a little more clearly in this picture section.
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
As a reference measurement for the dimensioning of both lamp shapes served me the width of the webs on my MLP walls of 1.5 mm.
Source: NASA
And so back to the first image with the red LED for the warning lights, which works perfectly with the Current bank, only it does not blink quite as fast as this one.
Since these lamps without a reflector are slightly smaller, I have used slightly smaller ferrules (0.5 mm²), which need not be widened as much as the sleeves for the lamps with reflector (left in the picture).
The difficulty with these lamps without reflector is to find a suitable glass bead for the glass body, for which I have tried different bead sizes.
Here is e.g. a cylindrical shape,
and here a roundish bead, which should fit better in size.
The sticking point here is that the LED also has to fit into the bead, which is why only the smallest types 0401/0402 with dimensions 1.0 mm x 0.5 mm x 0.5 mm (LxWxH) are suitable for this.
Then I still found this smaller bead, which fits even better with this lamp shape without reflector.
And with that I want to content myself for today.
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#1347 by llanitedave on 06 Nov, 2017 15:11
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Sorry about the gallstone issues! I'm sure this lighting project will be a lot more enjoyable and inspiring than the gutters were!
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#1348 by roma847 on 06 Nov, 2017 22:09
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Thanks Dave,
I don't know since when you're following my construction report, but I was already working hard on the Lighting chapter three years ago when I did a lot of extensive analysis, as one can see here for the RSS. 
Source: NASA
I can still remember very well how I have rubbed my eagle eyes at that time ...
Here is another amazing impression of the Pad at night, showing Challenger's countdown for mission STS-41B (1984).
Source: NASA
But until then there is still a long and challanging way to go ...
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#1349 by Davp99 on 08 Nov, 2017 14:41
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The Lights Look Sweet !!
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#1350 by roma847 on 09 Nov, 2017 07:55
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Thanks Dave for staying tuned.
I'm glad, that you like the lighting, which will soon become reality, initially on the MLP.
The Current bank is already waiting for its baptism of fire.
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#1351 by Ronpur50 on 09 Nov, 2017 11:25
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I remember the lights from before and scrolled back to see again how cool they looked. Glad you are doing better.
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#1352 by roma847 on 09 Nov, 2017 13:16
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Hello everyone,
today I have first expanded a handful of the larger ferrules (1 mm²) with a center punch from 2.3 mm to 2.8 mm diameter, for which the cordless screwdriver only needs to run a few revolutions, otherwise one is fast at Ø 3 mm or more.
Then I experimented a bit further and tried to expand also the slightly smaller ferrules (0.5 mm²) to Ø 2.8 mm.
At this sleeve, the smaller diameter of the tube with 1.4 mm is still slightly smaller than that of the larger ferrule with 1.8 mm, which would fit much better to the socket diameter of my lampshades.
The only question was whether the sleeve would endure the expansion, or whether the lampshade would crack.
On my first attempt, I was probably a bit too impetuous,
which can be clearly seen on the cracked lampshade on the right in the picture. To the left are the expanded 1 mm² ferrules, which did not mind this expanding. 
Therefore, I proceeded much more cautiously on the second attempt and checked the lampshade diameter from time to time with the caliper gauge.
Everything went pretty well up to Ø 2.5 mm, as you can see here,
but at Ø 2.8 mm the first mini-cracks appeared on the edge of the lampshade, which is why I will rather use the larger ferrules. 
And here's already a look ahead to the mainly installed lamp shape on the RSS, here on Pad 39B during the preparation of the Challenger on her last, unfortunately fateful mission STS-51L (1986).
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (James MacLaren)
And here are my first attempts compared to a simple lamp from the Revell Kit (right).
Probably for these lamps thin brass tubes will later be used into which the LED wires then will be threaded respectively soldered.
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#1353 by roma847 on 10 Nov, 2017 12:49
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Hello everybody,
on closer inspection, however, the lamp Made by Revell is too rustic for me, which I can not make friends with, especially as the tube seems also too thick to me.
And since the lamps are getting a bit more filigree anyway, I have taken measurement at the RSS-lamp once more.
And behold, my sense of proportion has not deceived me again, because the tube should have a diameter of 0.4 mm,
Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (James MacLaren)
while the Revell tube with 1 mm is twice as thick, which can be seen in the following photo.
This is for comparison a brass tube with Ø 0.5 mm, which would match the lamp size well, compared with the overlying lampshade, which is a little smaller with Ø 2.8 mm than my first samples with about Ø 3 mm (left).
And as one can see, the 0.1 mm thin LED wires let also thread into the tube, so everything is okay.
All we can hope is that one can bend the tube cleanly around the rounding without a kink, but we'll manage that too, I guess.
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#1354 by roma847 on 11 Nov, 2017 06:48
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Hello everybody,
Oh well - pipe bending is always such a tricky thing and can also become a complete flop.
But what's the name of it?
Well begun is half done!
And my first bending test with the 0.5 mm brass tube looks quite useful already, right?
Which in turn confirms my credo: Nothing is impossible!!!
BTW, maybe the pulling in of the two 0,1 mm wires is even favorable for the bending of the brass tube, since its diameter is 0.3 mm, which both wires almost fill.
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#1355 by roma847 on 16 Nov, 2017 22:41
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Thanks Doug and Ron for looking in on me.
Hello friends,
here is another update to the marked three lamps without shade on the Side 1, as well as for the Hazard warning lights with this shape here.
Source: NASA
In my search for even better matching ferrules for this lamp shape, I've actually found something, and indeed at Voelkner, who offers the smallest available size 0.1 - 0.3 mm². And although that are equal to 100 pcs, which I guaranteed will not need, so I grabbed it, and today the package arrived, so of course I had to try it.
These sleeves have a shade diameter of 1.5 mm, which corresponds exactly to the width of the MLP girders, and would therefore be even better suited than the previously tested 0.5 mm² sleeves with Ø 1.9 mm (shade).
An LED 0402 can also be threaded into the sleeve, as you can see on this picture. To the left are the 0.5 mm² and the 1 mm² sleeves.
And if the back part of the shade is slightly widened, then the shade looks like this (right) and its shape would therefore fit even better.
But since there probably are no matching transparent or red glass beads for this size, which should have a diameter of approx. 1.3 mm, one would have to apply the glass body above the LED with transparent epoxy resin. But wether that would work, I do not know ...
Let's try and see.
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#1356 by roma847 on 16 Nov, 2017 23:45
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Hello everybody,
once more back to the Tube bending. The wires I have threaded before, especially since that would be one of the two options in the later installation. But since I for myself was unsure how far I had threaded the wires, I have checked it out.
And as one can see here, the wires actually went beyond the arch,
so they might have been a bit of a bending aid.
But there is also this second option here, which had brought a friend at the Raumcon forum into play at that time.
In this case, only one wire (anode) needs to be threaded into the tube, the other wire (cathode) could be separated and then soldered at both ends with the brass tube and thus use it as a return conductor (GND).
When using brass pipes, of course, there is the risk of sharp edges, which is why you have to debur the separation points at the tube ends carefully or round off,
so that the protective varnish of the LED wires stays intact and there is no short circuit is caused.
That I have tried with my thinnest drills, first with a drill Ø 0.3 mm, which did not fit into the opening, but hopefully has served for deburring,
and then with a drill Ø 0.25 mm for cleaning.
Then I have cut my first bent tube to length, also deburred the ends, and then tried to thread in both 0.1mm wires one at a time to test whether or not the bow can be run through.
That was the expected tricky affair, and threading alone was not for the faint of eyes.
In the process, I first have slided the one wire from the long side into the opening and carefully felt my way to the bending so as not to unnecessarily bend the wire out of shape, which worked out well. And after a short standstill it went around the arch and out at the other end.
The second wire then made some more problems and only progressed a few millimeters, then I had to grasp again. But as one can see, it finally came to the fore again at the other end.
Whether the threading would be easier from the short side, I do not know what one could try.
In any case, the soldering on the tube could be avoided this way.
That's it for now, maybe there are still useful tips from this round.
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#1357 by roma847 on 21 Nov, 2017 11:23
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Hello everybody,
as I see you have no opinion or suggestions on this issue.
Anyway, let's go, because with regard to the glass body for the lamps without a large lampshade, I have at least gotten a tip from a friend from the Paper Modelers Forum, who has found out a manufacturer of smallest glass beads in the Czech Crystal Valley, which I could perhaps contact to possibly get a handful of samples for testing.
These mini beads Delica-RH / 321 11 001 (1,3 x 1,3 mm) could be a possibility with their size, and Macco-RH / 321 11 001 (1 x 1 mm) would also be interesting.
Source: preciosa-ornela.com
Crucial would be the inner diameter, which I have estimated from the image to 0.65 mm, which would be to check, which is why I have just asked there once.
Similar mini beads (Ø 1.3 x 1.1 mm), which would fit and would also be suitable for threading the LED, I have in my stock, but unfortunately they are silvered and not transparent or red-transparent.
So the matter does not seem to be hopeless.
So long!
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#1358 by roma847 on 28 Nov, 2017 22:21
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Hello everybody,
just short to the status quo, as one could expect, from the Crystal Valley I've got a negative answer to my request, because they only deliver upwards of 30 kg.
And quite so many lamps there are not installed on the Launch Pad.
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#1359 by roma847 on 09 Dec, 2017 16:45
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Hello everybody,
in the meantime, I went to another building site again and took care of the Intertank of the External Tank (ET), which I like to have as 3D print (1:144), if I can find a modeler and manufacturer for it.
Source: NASA
Here is the 3D model by my friend Bill (niParts) from the ARC Forum, but unfortunately only in 1:72 scale,
Source: shapeways.com (niParts)
as well as here with the installation of the finished 3D-Intertank at his ET (1:72), where the part comes out great, in my opinion.
Source: arcforums.com (niart17)
And he also offers the matching mounts (Ice Frost Ramps) for the GH2 and GO2 pressure lines, also 1:72.
Source: shapeways.com (niParts)
A charming alternative to this is the Scratch building with thin Evergreen strips,
Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)
as it was successfully and impressively had been realized by my friend (inselaner) in the Raumcon forum at the ET of his Airfix Shuttle Stack.
Source: raumfahrer.net (inselaner)
So far, I have also flirted with the idea of this scratch-building variant, in case I can not find a suitable 3D-print.
In the Airfix kit, the Intertank stringers are only hinted at by these boring decals and are therefore only 2D, which I can not make friends with. 
So I'm still trying to get a 3D Intertank (1:144), with that Michael Key (The Aerospace Place) had been starting in a hopeful way,
Source: Shapeways.com (The Aerospace Place - Michael Key)
on whose update I'm still waiting.
That's why I've been more in-depth with the Stringers, if I have to scratch them myself, which I did not intend to do.
Source: NASA
So far, unfortunately, I had no dimensions of the stringers, but rather I have always tried to estimate it myself. At first, these images helped me, where cracks in the insulating foam on the Intertank before the STS-133 had been investigated,
Source: NASA
which were caused by a broken stringer, which can be seen here.
And thus the height of the stringers should be about 2.5''.
Source: NASA
From another image of this study after the repair of this stringer area, then I have determinedthe 1:144 widths of the Stringer (0.3 mm) and the Valleys (0.65 mm), which would be a good basis for scratch building.
Source: NASA
So far so good, but then I've actually found even more detailed information about stringer geometry in another NASA document (ntrs.nasa.gov),
Source: NASA
with which I made this sketch (1:1), which was then supplemented by the 1'' thick foam insulation (red),
And these dimensions with foam insulation could now, if one would like, be taken as a basis for scratch building, which is summarized here again.
Source: NASA
But I still hope that Michael Key keeps on the line. At first he wanted to know the diameter and the exact position of the LO2-Feed Line as well as the Forward SRB Attachment Point) in the Intertank, what I still have to determine.
Source: NASA
