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#1320 by roma847 on 31 Aug, 2017 21:48
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Hello everybody,
I have yet again changed my plan and moulded a new Gutter 2, since the first gutter had been a little too short.
This is the gutter with the hole for the downspout, which then flows into the vertical downspout at the end of the Bay 17. 
Source: Library of Congress
After the hole (Ø 1.5 mm) for the downspout was punched, the gutter was again moulded in the gradually decreasing half-tubes with corresponding core wires.
Then the gutter floors were glued in,
and the gutter was ready.
But tomorrow the supports really will follow.
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#1321 by roma847 on 02 Sep, 2017 07:08
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Hello together,
today I have tried to put the planned method for glueing the supports to the gutter into action, which has expectedly proved to be a difficult undertaking.
For fixing the supports between the steel rulers I needed again my steel sheet, on which I first attached a tape with the support distances.
As a vertical stop for the gutter, I fixed a steel ruler vertically in front of a longer brass angle with magnets,
behind which however unfortunately also my markings disappeared,
which is why I've also taped the same marking tape on the ruler.
And in front of this stop, I then clamped the first support between two more steel rulers and fixed them with magnets. 
After that, I have put the gutter with the core strip on the support and eyed the arrangement up, which was okay so far,
except that the markings were covered up again.
Therefore, I had to change my plan and fixed the gutter with an additional steel ruler as end stop.
For glueing of the support, CA had to be applied there, the question was only how or where best, so that in the end not everything glues together ...
In order no risking that the support during the CA application would glue between the steel rulers, I have marked the contact point at the gutter. Then I took the core strip away, dabbed a mini-CA droplet on the front rounding of the gutter and then positioned the core strip including the gutter to the rear stop and finally lowered it carefully to the support,
what has worked well so far. And after removing of the core strip, the gutter glued only at the support, so that the rulers could be removed too.
For stabilization, I have carefully dabbed the support from both sides with CA with an acupuncture needle,
wherewith the first support had been successfully glued.
And since this method has worked as I have imagined it and has proved itself, the glueing of the remaining supports can now take place in a similar way. Every beginning is difficult.
And so you are now up to date again.
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#1322 by roma847 on 02 Sep, 2017 23:15
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Hello everybody,
after the successful glueing of the first support today I have glued the remaining five Supports at the Gutter 2.
In order to get with the steel rulers into the interstices between the supports, however, I had to clamp them vertically, otherwise it was the same procedure as before.
For clamping the tiny supports between the rulers one needs, however, patience and a quiet hand, since the supports can quickly tip over.
Then CA was applied again and the gutter with the core strip lowered to the second support and glued thereby.
And so it went on until the fifth and penultimate support on this gutter.
Then came the last support, which lines up precisely with the gutter end at the beginning of the Bay 11, as one can see in this image.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
And after this support was glued,
the Gutter 2 was finally finished.
Next, the short Gutter 3 follows at the end of the Side 2, which has only two supports, and thereafter finally the Gutter 1 at the front of the side with its nine supports.
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#1323 by roma847 on 08 Sep, 2017 10:04
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Hello everyone,
as already announced, the short Gutter 3 at the end of Side 2 came next with only two supports as one can see in this image.
Source: Library of Congress
Since I had already shaped the gutter some time ago,
now only the gutter soils with CA had to be glued in, which again happened on Teflon foil,
and relatively quickly was done.
Afterwards, the support (with flange) was clamped in the known and proven manner between the steel rulers,
and above it the gutter was glued as usual.
The assembly was then turned upside down and the rear support (without flange) glued.
And so the Gutter 3 was already finished,
and fits well to the Gutter 2.
Now still missing the front Gutter 1, which is running from the Bay 9 up to the Bay 1 at the beginning of Side 2.
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#1324 by mike robel on 08 Sep, 2017 22:00
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Do you model every day? How much at a time. I try to always spend at least 10 minutes a day, but usually fail.
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#1325 by roma847 on 08 Sep, 2017 23:30
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Hi Mike,
10 minutes are needed alone for photo shooting ...
Joking aside, but about four to five hours come together almost every day, but half of time is needed for detailed researching for information and good reference photos, image analysis, scaling of components, etc. and for correspondence of course ... 
No pain no gain ...
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#1326 by mike robel on 08 Sep, 2017 23:35
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Remarkable Manfred. We'll have to see what the situation is after I get back to my house after the Hurricane.
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#1327 by roma847 on 09 Sep, 2017 05:51
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Hi Mike,
I keep my fingers crossed that your house will be spared.
May God protect you all!!!
Take care of you!
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#1328 by mike robel on 09 Sep, 2017 14:34
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Vielen Dank, Manfred.
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#1329 by roma847 on 16 Sep, 2017 08:43
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Hello everyone,
I hope you have survived Irma unscathed and all of you are doing well.
Although these tricky gutters also do not necessarily lead me to cheers, it does not use anything, and therefore the work must go on.
And now to the Gutter 1, which is supported by eight supports with a flange and by one support without flange at the beginning of the Side 2.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
In contrast to the side end (Bay 18) the gutter, flattened outwards above the Bay 1, is connected to the other gutter part directly at the outlet of the downspout in front of the front girder, which is why there is no support there. Therefore, both gutter parts must be glued directly dull one to another at this point, which should not become quite easy as the edges will probably provide little sufficient area due to the very thin aluminum plate (0.1 mm).
Here one can see both gutter parts lying on a narrow core strip, so far so good.
At first, the bottom of the gutter was glued at the back end.
Subsequently, the glueing of the supports took place according to the tried and tested clamping technique,
almost as before.
Since the distances between the girders in the front part of the side is slightly less than in the rear part, the steel ruler did not fit between them in the following Bays, which is why I had to redispose. But with narrow cutter knives as a stop, the problem was solved quickly,
it went on fast, and up to the 7th support everything looked well.
But during constant handling with this unwieldy structure I must have somehow nudged to the third support, whereby its lower flange was suddenly kinked off.
After the support had been repaired, he could be glued again and closed the gap.
Finally, the last support between the Bay 2/3 followed,
whereby this gutter part was completely supported.
But now the more difficult part of the exercise was next to do, namely, the dull gluing of both gutter parts, which has given me some headache.
For this I firstly came up with this stable magnet fixing of the gutter over a somewhat wider core strip, which was unfortunately thought too short.
In this arrangement, the top edge of the front gutter part would run outwardly obliquely, what should not be,
but rather it must be exactly the other way round. In contrast, the upper edge of the gutter is a continuous line, while the lower edge slightly rises towards the outside. 
Therefore I have glued the external support without flange, which I first wanted to lay down from above (here only temporary done),
what I but then differently have done, because one this tiny part can hardly hold still in the tweezers, let alone put exactly straight to the point.
That is why I stapled the support on a conversely glued tape strip and then carefully lowered the gutter end, dabbed with tiny CA,
which also worked well.
And now again to the dull gluing of the two gutter parts flat above two half-round profiles (1.5 mm) for better guidance.
In order to achieve a possible flush connection of the two roundings, I then have glued a small supporting profile (0.5x1.5 mm rectangular profile + half-round profile),
and inserted it into the longer gutter part together with a Teflon strip as CA protection.
Afterwards, I dabbed the gutter end on the rounding with CA and layed the part over the support profile and lightly pressed, in the hope that both parts would somehow glue together.
Unfortunately, this hope has not been fulfilled, because after removing the supporting profile from the gutter suddenly two parts were laying in front of me again.
So I was rather frustrated and I have to think about a different solution, which is why good ideas are required.
So please feel free, but rather come up with it.
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#1330 by Davp99 on 16 Sep, 2017 20:14
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Just Wunderbarr Herr Doctor, Just an Exciting Model to Watch being Built Thanks Again for the Opportunity ...
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#1331 by roma847 on 16 Sep, 2017 22:39
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Thanks Dave for your nice compliments.
A good idea to solve my problem would be desirable.
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#1332 by Ronpur50 on 17 Sep, 2017 13:46
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I can't think of another way that should work better to just glue them end to end. I suppose you can't overlap a smaller section inside the gutter to help support and bond them?
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#1333 by Davp99 on 17 Sep, 2017 17:34
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We have Rolls of Aluminum Tape for outside gutter repairs, here in Massachusetts...One side is Silvery and the other is Quite Sticky Tape that has a Peel-Back for application.....I have Used it for Many Fixes especially on my Motorhome. It is Quite Tough and Lasts for Years & Years...<---My Idea for today
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#1334 by Davp99 on 17 Sep, 2017 17:39
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#1335 by roma847 on 17 Sep, 2017 22:17
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Thanks Ron and Dave for trying to help me,
but the overlap edge of 0.1 mm would be seen in the painted state too.
One possibility would be to glue both airbrushed gutters end to end at the MLP deck and then to overpaint the connecting edge once more with the brush by hand.
Maybe I could also use the special glue for photo etch parts, Gator's Grip-Thin Blend for gluing instead of CA, whose application is easier.
About using of a foil or tape I have also already thought, perhaps simple masking tape (0.05 mm) on the rear half of the gutter could be suitable as a little support, which one can not see from the front.
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#1336 by roma847 on 20 Sep, 2017 16:20
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Hello everybody,
okay, admitted, this delicate matter is really not very easy, because the gluing surfaces (cannot to be said actually) or better the gluing edges (0.1 mm) are much too narrow.
To the actually obvious idea, of using the special glue for photo-etched parts (PE) Gator's Grip-Thin Blend instead of CA I could have come already earlier, especially since its application is simpler and even more advantageous. But sometimes one cannot see the forest for the trees ... 
I had previously only planned its application for the gluing of the various PE parts at the FSS/RSS and therefore it falled a bit into oblivion.
A significant advantage of this glue is that it is water-soluble and does not cure as quickly as Seku. This allows one to correct the seat of the parts for a while. During this time, the initially milky white color changes into transparent, indicating that the adhesive is dry and cured.
A further advantage is the amazing elasticity of the glue in the cured state. While a contact that is glued with Seku can break away quickly, as with one gutter support, the Gator's Grip contact itself can withstand a bending by 90° and then re-erect itself, also known as Memory effect, what I initially did not wanted to believe.
And this variant I have tried today.
Here one can see the put together gutter dummies, which I have just before lightly painted inside and outside with the Gator's Grip, as well as a similarly attached support.
After a drying time of about 10 minutes it looked like this. The gutters were actually tightly connected and held out a slight bend without breaking apart.
In addition, I also have glued an old PE ladder as well as a piece of handrail upright onto a plastic pad and let dry.
And then followed the brutal nail test for the ladder by loading of a tweezer, what overwhelmed it.
And whether one believes it or not, after taking the tweezers away, the miraculous resurrection of the ladder began, here after half of the recovery from this strain,
and then almost to the starting point.
And the handrail finally had to bend itsef under my cent coin,
but had surprisingly the same abilities and stood up again little by little, although these are only point contacts!!!
Finally here once again the state of the probands after this stress test, which impressively proves their total recovery.
What more do you want?
As a conclusion, I can say rightly that the test reports have not promised too much, and that Gator's Grip is really a hellish stuff that convinced me and will be helpful to me when gluing the next gutters on the Side 4, as certainly also in the gluing of the gutters at the MLP deck.
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#1337 by roma847 on 22 Sep, 2017 14:55
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Hello everybody,
since I can order Gator's Grip also in Germany, I have tested both varieties in comparison, because I was interested in the difference.
While the Original Blend is rather pasty and resembles conventional wood glue, the Thin Blend is not fluid, but noticeably thinner.
And since the Gator does not bite immediately like CA, I had to hold the two plastic rods first.
As can be seen after a dry time of 5 minutes the Thin Blend actually dries faster, and the milky white color already begins to become transparent.
After 10 minutes, both samples are standing already by itself.
After 15 minutes, the Thin Blend should be almost cured.
After 20 minutes:
After 25 minutes:
After 60 minutes the original glue was still not quite transparent.
Then came the nail test,
which both samples have survived. However, the force for upstanding reached only to half, for whatever reason. 
However, the connection is still so stable that the samples can be moved and erected arbitrarily without having to break.
This allows everybody to decide for himself which blend is more advantageous and to order accordingly. I will probably stay with the Thin Blend because of the faster curing.
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#1338 by roma847 on 01 Oct, 2017 07:04
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Hello everybody,
and today finally to the gutters on the Side 4, which basically have the same structure as the gutters on Side 2. The only difference is that there is no console in the Bay 17 as on the Side 2, and therefore there is also no recess as shown on this image on the MLP-2 during STS-8.
Source: NASA
As a result, there are only two gutters on Side 4, which can be seen in this image a bit better. For dimensioning it is only important to determine the distances in the recess in the Bay 10,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
in which the box for the Fire Hose Reel was installed earlier. The two gutter ends at the beginning and at the end of the side have the same outward lowering structure, as can be seen in this image,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
which again have to be glued with blunt ends, but this time immediately with Gator's Grip.
For the cutting of the aluminium sheet metal strips (0.1 mm) was used a small montage sketch as usual.
Then, again, the rounding of the gutters followed in the usual way, here first the short initial piece of Gutter 1 in Bay 1, which was relatively simple,
and then the long piece, which was already somewhat more tricky.
As far as for today.
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#1339 by roma847 on 02 Oct, 2017 20:24
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Hello everyone,
first of all, still a small supplement to the strength or resilience of the gluing with Gator's Grip.
It was even possible to smooth the glue contact with a sanding stick, and the 0.1 mm contact seam was resistent and is not broken apart, which would have happened by using CA.
Hard to believe, but true! The stuff is really worth the money.
And now to the still remaining Gutter 2 on the Side 4.
While the rounding of the long gutter strip with the help of the half-pipe and core wires up to Ø 4 mm is relatively easy, it is known to become more tricky below this level.
This is why I have clamped the brass core wire (Ø 2 mm) this time over the rounded gutter strip on the table and pressed the edges from both sides by sliding along with a rounded magnet, because unsightly kinks can be prevented this way.
This is followed by the last rounding step with the core wire Ø 1.5 mm.
Any slight longitudinal distortions of the gutter can be compensated on the narrow rounded plastic core strip,
so that Gutter 2 is finally finished too.
As the crowning end of the gutter chapter, next the gluing of the Gutter Supports follows, but this time also with the Gator's Grip.
