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#1240 by roma847 on 11 May, 2017 11:40
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Hello folks,
I want only briefly tell you that I had a good nose with my guess regarding these boxes.
As I have discovered in an isometric representation of the MLP-1, Fire Hose Reels were in these boxes.
After dismanteling the old boxes, these hose reels were then mounted directly on the top deck, which were connected by a thin tube coming from the side wall (Bay 10), as can be seen in this image.
Source: NASA
And here is the matching panoramic shot of the later MLP-2.
Source: NASA
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#1241 by Ronpur50 on 12 May, 2017 04:26
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It is very, very interesting to watch!
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#1242 by roma847 on 12 May, 2017 05:21
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I fully agree with you, Ron,
and this way I'm learning something new every day.
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#1243 by roma847 on 13 May, 2017 16:50
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Hello everybody,
before it goes on with the side walls, here still an appropriate image of the washing and cleaning crew during the Pad Washdown with the long hose from the hose reel to remove the traces after an ordinary start.
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com Forum (padrat)
But this was always routine work for the pad guys.
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#1244 by roma847 on 15 May, 2017 19:08
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Hello everybody,
it went on with the Side 2, here is an intermediate step with the redecorated left half,
and here the somewhat harmonized and now almost "new" side, which I like much better now.
And on this picture the details can be seen, which are now/again to be attached.
These are beside the box, the pipes and supports, the three rain gutters with downspouts, whereby the angled, oblique tube at the end of the side (Bay 16-17) is not present in the paper kit. This is due to the wrong MLP-1 version of David Maier, which I will not go into, where this downspout does not exist.
On the Side 2 of the MLP-2, there was this downspout from the beginning, how also in the STS-115 can be seen in the next image.
In the Bay 17 are still the red ports for the purge lines of the Orbiter's Environmental Control System (ECS), on which the thick red hoses of the Mobile Portable Purge Unit (MPPU) are connected, which should be placed there as a connector.
Source: NASA
And beneath there are the four Instrumentation Interface Panels, which I will try to get a little bit sharper than the ones from the Paper Kit,
Source: NASA
whereby I'm favourably impressed by this cable jumble during the MLP cabling on the pad again and again.
Source: NASA
And now to the Side 4, on which there are also some things (marked in red) that should be corrected.
First of all, there is the box on the frame in Bay 13, which is wrong there and is omitted, but for which the old box is mounted in Bay 10.
And then I must unfortunately dismantle the two lower Pneumatic Vent Mufflers,
because they did not exist yet during the STS-6, as I have only now noticed what one can see in this image of the STS-8, which was launched four months later.
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com Forum (Ares67)
But either I build my pad after the historical original, or I let it be, and therefore they must be removed, whether I like it or not.
At the beginning, I naturally confided in the correctness of the design in David Maier's Paper Kit and reproduced the details, especially since I had neither special detail knowledge nor useful reference photos of the STS-6.
Today, however, I have a pretty good overview, and so I noticed when studying the fantastic threads of the early missions by Ares67 that the MLP numbers in the kit, especially on the Side 4 do not sit in the right places,
but rather where I have drawn them (green).
Almost, I wanted to take over these identifiers from the STS-8, but then I still have discovered an image of the STS-6, which shows, that the rear identifiers of the STS-6 looked differently.
It was this image here, on which the front identifier is concealed, but for this the end of the page is to be seen, on which one would be able to recognize something perhaps with a corresponding zoom, I thought at least.
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com Forum (Ares67)
And I was lucky, because that is indeed the case, as you can see on this image.
There one can hardly see yet, 
that the rear identifier is not completely placed in the Bay 18 but in the Bay 18 (red circle). However, because there is little space, due to the the pipe support and the crossbars on which it sits, the 2 is above the lower strut, and the identifier Side 4 beneath it.
At the same time, it can be seen that there were only the two upper Vent Mufflers (blue circle).
And thus I can also consider and correct this disagreement.
And finally, I've still tried, wether the Instrumentation Interface Panels can still be improved, wherefore I have copied them from the Street View shot of the MLP-1 and reduced it to 1:160.
And that should be quite possible, I think.
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#1245 by roma847 on 28 May, 2017 22:45
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Hello everybody,
here comes at last the next update.
But in the implementation of the latest ideas and details, new questions emerged, which I had yet to pursue, in order to clarify their structure.
Therefore, in sequence, and thus first to the Interface Panels at the end of the Side 2, which looked as in this image using the template from the Paper Kit.
And now these are the panels taken from the MLP-1 (Street View) and scaled, which look a little clearer,
and also at the MLP look quite well, at any rate better than the previous blurred paper Kit panels.
And so to the next details in Bay 17, the red indicated ports for the ECS Purge lines, which I wanted to scratch by simple round bars with red caps.
However, on closer inspection, it can be seen clearly that these ports consist of through-sleeves, in which are the connecting sockets of the purge lines, at which the red ventilation hoses of the MPPU are linked.
Source: NASA (Street View)
After some consideration, I remembered the wire end ferrules already used for the lampshades. And these are not only available as pure metal sleeves, but also with plastic sleeves, which can be easier cut off to the required lengths than the metal sleeves.
And as a result of my usual scaling,
I have come to the following sleeve types, whose diameters would fit perfectly, into which then the matching connecting sleeves made of round bars are glued and red caps are painted.
Later, it goes on with the reconstruction work on the Side 4.
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#1246 by roma847 on 30 May, 2017 12:44
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Hello everybody,
since in the laying of the two thin pipes on the Side 2 inevitably the "roof"gutters come into play,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
I have made a couple of new attempts in the meantime to get some bending feeling again, because unfortunately there is nothing off the shelf.
For my first attempts at the very beginning of the project, I got an aluminum tube Ø 2 mm and filed down carefully the upper half with a fine mill file, which basically works, but which was quite elaborate and laborious.
Therefore, from today's point of view, I would rather want to return to the already tested variant of moulding a sheet metal strip over a round bar.
For the back Gutter 3 over the Bay 18 I need a 23 mm long piece, after it follows an elongated substructure, on which two sockets with connection stubs sit, whose purpose of use I have not yet been able to find out however. But no matter, maybe I still can discover it. And as it looks like, the two thin pipes seem to be attached to these sockets when I see this right.
This is indeed a picture of the MLP-1,
Source: NASA (Street View)
but on the MLP-2 this part looked similar, as one can see on this image detail, only the two sockets sit more in the middle.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
On this panorama one can see the details more clearly.
Source: NASA (Street View)
This time I've used thin aluminum sheet (0,2 mm) for the gutters, cut out a strip of 23 mm x 3 mm and molded it over a round rod Ø 1,5 mm, but the strip can also kink axially, instead of curving itself evenly, which should be better prevented.
Here one can see the filed down pipe (above) and below it the molded gutter piece, which one can do more precisely than by filing.
In order to prevent this axial kinking, I will lay the strip on a rubber pad on the next attempt and then press down the round bar from above, perhaps it will work better then. However, how good this can be done with the longer strips, we will see then. 
Afterwards, I started with the face lifting of the Side 4, on which there are also some pipes and cables, which I would like to scratch. And since they lie above the vertical struts, then the 2D textures and shadows on the wall template disturb the picture, which would certainly look comical, especially since the 3rd dimension is missing anyway.
So I have started to cover the Bays on this side with matching parts, which was quite tedious because one had to measure all the fields and covers before, so that they fit into the fields.
Then came the Bay 16 with the four Vent Mufflers, where I first removed the two lower mufflers. But since the shadows there just look too brutal,
I then also removed the two upper Mufflers to be able to cover this bay completely new. And the front and rear MLP-2 identities have meanwhile also been renewed and were placed in the right bays.
Afterwards, the two vent mufflers were glued again, which now looks much better and corresponds to the original.
In order to have more freedom of movement, I've put my turntable on a stand to have easy access from all sides, which makes the work much easier. 
Now only a few fields have to be renovated, which will be done tomorrow.
As far as for today, and thank you for watching.
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#1247 by roma847 on 10 Jun, 2017 14:46
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Hello friends,
now also the last fields on the Side 4 are newly re-glued, which looks now like new-born,
compared to the side from the paper kit
and only awaits their details.
And because we are dealing with cosmetic, I have attached the yellow markings on the LH2 Vent Line, seven in number, as can be seen on this image from the STS-8.
Source: NASA
In order that the somewhat bulky little decals can easier cling around the pipe, I had to use Decal Soft again.
And that's how it looks on the MLP.
After the "renovation" of the side walls they look indeed a little bit bald, but now I could finally start with the detailing, first on the Side 2.
I am still in the dark, which especially concerns the detail structure of this side during the STS-6, which does not make scratch-building easy.
I started with the through-sleeves and connecting sockets of the three ports for the ECS purge lines,
Source: NASA (Street View)
for which I have separated 1 mm wide rings from the wire end ferrules, which protrude forward on the wall.
The small connector to the left beside the downspout belongs to a GN2 pipe, the front of which looks like a handwheel and also sits in a through-sleeve, what I then have tried to scratch laboriously. 
The sleeve is a piece of a wire end ferrule (Ø 1 mm) and the wheel is from a section of a rod (Ø 1 mm), which I tried to slit all around with the cutter.
On the right lay the round bars for the connecting sockets.
And so this part in the sleeve looks so far, an attempt was worth it at any rate.
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#1248 by roma847 on 13 Jun, 2017 15:19
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Hello everybody,
then I tried to paint the caps of the connecting sockets red, first times with two test rods.
Since the lengths of the caps with the brush by hand are not to manage with uniform lenght, I have masked the rod tops accordingly.
And now it looks better, to the left is a second variant of the handrail, which has only a thin disc at the front, which corresponds more to the real part, which is more likely a blind flange,
as I have now found out.
Since I would like to paint the small through-sleeves by Airbrush, I have pinned the parts on my Balsa-Holding strip, which I had used for the lampshade lacquer.
And in this airbrush job, also a few profiles for the pipes on the side walls will be sprayed, which I have already prepared.
These are, inter alia, the two lines with the double kink,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
whose connection on this console with the two attachments was a mystery to me until now.
In the meantime, NASA has also digitized the photos contained in the so called MLP-Report and made them available online, from which I have already taken a lot of detailed information. And these reference photos (unfortunately only black and white) are predestined for detail studies because of their high resolution. 
Source: Library of Congress
In addition to this image as JPEG (316 KB), on which one can not see enough details, there is also a huge TIFF format (38 MB), on which one can clearly see that the two pipes are actually connected to these two attachments, which I had so far only suspected. And on this image one can also see that the front part on the GN2 Line is probably a blind flange. 
Source: Library of Congress
This version of the connectors with the covers is only available on the MLP-3, on the MLP-2 they are missing , as one could already see on this earlier image.
Source: NASA (Street View)
In any case, similar connector caps are located in front of the attachments, as can be seen from this perspective.
Source: NASA (Street View)
That this connection console was still slightly different on the MLP-1, can be seen in this image.
Source: NASA (Street View)
The MLP-Report contains, among other things, also a drawing of the Side 2 from which this image section comes, from which I have determined the dimensions of the box (Fire Hose Reel).
Source: Library of Congress
And these are the prepared parts for the box of 0.3 mm Styrene with two support struts (0.5 mm x 1 mm), whereby I assume that these were more likely angle profiles, for which I could use an already painted brass profile (1 mm x 1 mm).
So much for the theory, which I now only need to put into action.
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#1249 by roma847 on 14 Jun, 2017 10:31
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Hello everybody,
today only a short flash from a first attempt to bend the two thin pipes.
For this I have used copper wire Ø 0.6 mm and a copy of the Side 2 of the MLP-3 as bending template, which is why I had to correct the double kink a little bit.
And these are the two pipes in the raw state, from which the left ends are now adapted to the attachments on the console and the right ends must be shortened and angled.
Sorry, but the light conditions are unfortunately not the best.
That was it already for the moment.
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#1250 by roma847 on 14 Jun, 2017 22:04
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Hello friends,
and thus to the next pipe on this side, whereby I assume that it is a Firex line. The same line there is also on the Side 4, to which we will come later.
This pipe is a bit thinner than the first two pipes, it starts somewhere in Bay 13 and then it takes the marked course to the front corner of Side 2,
Source: NASA
Since on this image one can recognize the beginning of the line unfortunately just as little as on this image of the MLP-2,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
I have consulted again the Street View panorama of the MLP-1. And here I have found a suitable perspective, on which one can recognize, that the line comes out of the wall of the lower MLP-B Level to the right of the door and then runs first to the top and then to the right.
Source: NASA (Street View)
Compared to the first two pipes (Ø 0.6 mm), this line should have a diameter of 0.4 mm, for which I also used Cu wire.
And here the test line is temporarily layed down, but at the lower end it must be shortened and angled.
At the other end of the line at the front corner to the Side 1, I was initially not quite clear about their real run during the STS-6, provided that it already existed at that time.
As can be seen in these images from John Duncan's collection (1998), the line runs around the corner to the Side 1,
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
and flows then in the thicker Firex main line, which is running under the Blast Shields to the other end of the side and then on Side 4, where it ends in Bay 13.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
And now comes the surprise, linked with a fat 
On my standard reference image of the STS-6 one can see that there was no continuation of this Firex line behind the corner on the Side 1, maybe it was extended only later up to the main line, but it is only questionable when, respectively whether at all?
Obviously, there is something else, whereat the red arrow points, to what I'll come back later.
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
To the right side of the Side 1 it looks similar, where the red Firex main line ends in front of the corner and only some cables run around the corner.
Source: retrospaceimages.com (STS-6)
And so I have arrived at a point where I have to rethink everything, because that would mean that I can save myself the thinner pipe apparently, because it still did not exist at that time presumably.
But about it I just have to sleep tonight ...
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#1251 by roma847 on 15 Jun, 2017 12:46
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Hello everybody,
well, so is it with the details, which I wanted to start scratching, but which on closer inspection suddenly vanish into thin air ...
Therefore it is absolutely necessary to take care to the mission they are based on and whether they are relevant to the own mission. But that I did not keep in mind at John Duncan's MLP-2 images of 1998, because I was so thrilled about their details, a typical case of Not a bit of it! 
Afterwards one is unfortunately always smarter, but aside from the STS-1, there are relatively few usable Hi-Res images from the first missions, especially from Side 2, where it unfortunately looks gloomy.
That's why I took the trouble and have specifically investigated the first [color= blue]MLP-2 missions[/color] until the end of the 80s once again, finally to get information about these ominous Firex Lines.
And these were the following missions:
Challenger:
1983: MLP-6, MLP-8,
1984: STS-41B,
1985: STS-51B, STS-51F,
1986: STS-51L;
Discovery:
1984: STS-41D, STS-51A,
1988: SSTS-26;
Atlantis:
1985: STS-51J, STS-61B.
And in doing so, I found out, that 1983 during the first missions, there was no transition of the Firex line from the Side 2 to the Side 1, but first in 1984 at the Challenger mission STS-41B, as one can clearly see in this image, especially with zoom.
Source: NASA
At the previous mission STS-8, this transition did not yet exist, as one can see on this image unfortunately not so sharp, but nevertheless.
Source: NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
What one can see as a shadow is the detail (?) on MLP-2, what I've already mentioned in the last post, which I will now still examine carefully.
And therefore back to the Side 2 of the MLP-2 (1998), on which one can see it also only schematically in the zoom.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
These are actually four thin Fuel cell pipes (Ø 0.5'' = 12.7 mm) for the fuel cells of the orbiter, namely the two upper GO2 pipes and the two lower GH2 pipes.
More clearly, this bundle is seen on this image from the MLP-2 at the STS-132.
Source: NASA
If one really wanted to scratch these four pipes, one would need wires with a diameter of about 0.1 mm, which I have procured some time ago.
BTW, here is such a wire (Ø 0.1 mm) in cosy togetherness with a hair (Ø 0.05 mm) of mine,
whose color however will not be betrayed.
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#1252 by Davp99 on 16 Jun, 2017 20:10
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Can the pipe be Conduit for wires ?? or was just added for a future use ? Sometimes we need a detective (Sherlock Manfred )
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#1253 by roma847 on 18 Jun, 2017 00:13
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Hello Dave,
sorry, but first I had to look for the translation of Conduit in order to understand your question, especially in connection with the different meanings of the English terms liquids and fluids, which is not the same.
All liquids are fluids, but not all fluids are liquids. And fluids may be classified into two categories, liquids and gases, including vapours.
In NASA's Mechanical & Electrical Installation of the MLP No. 1 is used the term Fuel Cell GO2 & GH2 Fluid Lines, whereby GO2 & GH2 stand for the transported gaseous Oxygen and gaseous Hydrogen.
That's the reason why I have used the term Fuel Cell Pipes for these fluid lines, whereby fluid is not liquid.
On the other hand, Conduits are pipes not to transfer any fluid but to protect electrical and optical fibers & cables from external environment.
BTW, I have found it in this source: Difference between Pipeline, Piping, Tubing, Ducting & Conduit, which was helpful for my own understanding of these terms.
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#1254 by roma847 on 19 Jun, 2017 22:40
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Hello everybody,
I'm still wondering if I should try it with the 0.1 mm wires.
This would mean that I had to glue the four thin wires (0.1) parallel to each other on supports strips 1.5 mm x 0.35 mm and then to glue this thin wire bundle over the length of about 12 cm from the Bay 8 to the Bay 1 and also still around the corner to Side 1, so that the wires remain tensioned.
Source: NASA
But this structure would have to be painted before, which sounds utopian,
unless one is building an intelligent retaining jig ... 
Now good advice is expensive ...
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#1255 by roma847 on 20 Jun, 2017 12:34
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Hello everybody,
this is certainly a rather demanding and complicated undertaking, which would in any case require a suitable holding jig to be able to paint this wire bundle by airbrush in a first step.
Meanwhile I have fiddled around with a solution and have also an idea already.
One would have to reproduce the girder structure of the Side 2 from Bay 8 to Bay 1, which can be seen in this image,
Source: Library of Congress
as a kind of template made of Balsa with the tiny supports strips on girder dummies, and glue the wires on it, whereby the front ends as well as the rear ends should have to be angled already and fixed somehow.
The other pipe supports, sitting on feet on the side wall, would have to be painted and glued separately, and then one could glue the painted thin bundle with the support strips onto the girders and the other wall supports, and also lay around the corner.
This sounds surely a bit adventurous and perhaps it's hard to understand too, but maybe it's possible.
The difficulty results from the minimal distances of the four thin wires from only 0.2 mm on the 1.5 mm short support strips.
This filigree arrangement of the wires I have tried to apply now. First I used spring steel wire 0.1 mm, which is unsuitable because the wires are magnetically attracted by the tweezers.
But with nickel silver wire 0.1 mm it was possible and looks like this.
This is my momentary idea, but maybe it is also too crazy and can not be realized, wherefore I'm still a little bit skeptical, although my feeling tells me that it could work ... 
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#1256 by roma847 on 22 Jun, 2017 12:02
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Hello everybody,
while the holding device assumes more and more shape in my mind's eye, I also have to understand the course of the Fuel Cell Pipes, especially their starting points on the Side 2 in the Bay 7 (GH2) and Bay 8 (GO2), as well as their further course to the MLP corner and then on the Side 1.
For this purpose here are a few pictures for illustrating the wiring course, for the sake of simplicity, just behind the corner on the Side 1, whereby the two upper lines are the GO2 Pipes, and the two lower ones the GH2 Pipes.
Source: NASA
While the two GO2 Pipes are running below the Blast Shields to the LOX Tunnel, the two GH2 Pipes run downward in front of the Blast Shield and then below the AccessPlatform up to the LOX Pneumatic Interface Plate in the Bay 6.
And so it should fully suffice if I let end up the pipes at the circled places, especially since one can not see their further course on the model.
But regarding the starting points of the Pipes on Side 2 in Bay 7 and Bay 8, it's still not quite clear in detail, because one can not recognize it exactly enough, which is why I initially thought that the pipes would come out of the MLP wall.
Source: apollosaturn.com (John Duncan)
And even this image, which reveals more details already, cannot give a more exact explanation.
Source: Library of Congress
It is only clear that the two GH2 Pipes in the Bay 7 running down close to each other, while the two GO2 pipes in the Bay 8 run with a significantly larger distance.
But then suddenly I remembered, that there is a NASA panorama with a great view of the Side 2 of the MLP-2 from Level 75 on the FSS, on which these two bays might be visible more detailed.
And lo and behold, quite right, and therefore here the ultimate shot with the linked panorama,
Source: NASA
wherewith (now) almost all the uncertainties for scratching should be eliminated.
As can be seen, the pipes start on an angle profile and then take a multiple angled course upwards, and follow after merging in the Bay 7 as a quadruple bundle to the right up to the beginning of the side.
As coming from NASA's plans, the circled jacks are Moisture Sensors, and one can even see how the pipes are bolted to the angle profile.
Source: NASA
And with that the matter looks already much more friendly.
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#1257 by roma847 on 28 Jun, 2017 15:14
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Hello everybody,
the Fuel Cell Pipes are put aside and let's look again to the Bay 18,
in which are still to install the through-sleeves and connection sockets of the three ports for the ECS purge lines.
Here is again the original using the example of the MLP-1.
Source: NASA (Street View)
These are the painted and shortened parts,
and here on the tailor-made insert.
And here ist still the GN2 line with the blind flange. The eight screws I tried to hint with a fineliner, but what not still convinced me.
But the next attempt was already better.
Since the through-sleeve (Ø 1 mm) was somewhat too long, it was inserted into the wall,
and then the insert was finally glued over it.
The GN2 line was initially inserted only temporarily, since its installation height must match the height of the connection sockets,
which were subsequently glued.
And with this result, I am now quite satisfied, although the too bright red could be mitigated by a final Washing. But a small thing is still missing, if one looks closely, namely?
Exactly, the labelings above the three ports are still missing and have been added by carefully removing the color with the cutter.
Fortunately one must not be able to decipher them.
And here once again for comparison, how the ports looked before in 2D ...
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#1258 by roma847 on 30 Jun, 2017 08:07
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Hello everybody,
before it goes on in the Bay 17 with the upper console with the two connector sockets,
Source: Library of Congress
I've been busy myself with the gutters and initially corrected their lengths based on the the MLP-3 photo,
Source: Library of Congress
which differ a little bit from the values previously determined at the MLP-1.
With the Gutter-3 (Ø 10'') above the Bay 18 I had already started.
When dimensioning the strips for the gutter, one has to take into account that it does not have a semicircular cross-section as in ordinary guttering on the house, but rather that it extends somewhat beyond the semicircle, as can be seen in this image,
Source: NASA
which is why the strip should be slightly wider than half of the diameter, approximately 4 mm.
For molding the strip of 0.1 mm aluminum sheet over a core wire with Ø 1.5 mm this Rolling Set (thesmallshop.com) is suitable, in which the strip can be bulged in a first step.
In order to mold the gutter to the final diameter, I've also tried my Balsa clamping method from the SSWS Pipes.
For the first tests, I also used the wrapping foil of a champagne bottle cork.
And as it looks like, this method should also be suitable for the molding of the longer gutter parts.
At the same time, I have also tried to use a thin Styrene foil (0.15 mm) because plastic might be advantageous for gluing the supports under the gutters, which would make them more stable.
But since the plastic strip is less ductile than the aluminum strip, it is not easy to buckle it.
And even after the hot air shower in the Balsa-"Corset"
the result was not so amazing,
which is why I will probably stay with the aluminum sheet.
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#1259 by roma847 on 03 Jul, 2017 19:31
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Hello friends,
the devil is just as always in the details.
Just when I wanted to start with the tiny supports for the gutters,
I have noticed that I have to correct the dimensions once more, because I noticed a thing only now, which I have so far overlooked.
The gutters have indeed the same diameter (10'') over the side length of the MLPs, but their height in the first and last bay strangely diminishes outwards as you can see in this image, if one knows it, otherwise it is not striking.
But on the linked HiRes image one can see it more clearly, if one follows the alignments of the gutter.
Source: NASA
In the Bay 18 I then took measurements, and as you can see, the height difference is about 0.5 mm, which is not much, but at least.
Source: Library of Congress
And then still to the gutter supports, which are fixed on the girders, as can be seen in this picture.
Source: Raumcon (eumel)
Merely the outer supports at the sides end differ in shape as one can see in these images, at which the lower flange is missing. 
Source: Raumcon (eumel)
Source: Raumcon (eumel)
Therewith everything should be clear now for scratching the gutters.
