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#1160 by roma847 on 23 Feb, 2017 11:50
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Manfred.
You continue to amaze me. The detail and labor on the piping is outstanding. Every time you finish a construction stage, I think, it just can't get any better. Then you find something else and continuously and meticulously improve the sub-assembly. Your patience, craftsmanship, ability to visualize and plan are at the top of the list. It's jaw dropping. There are probably more parts in those sub-assemblies than some complete models have.
Even if I don't say anything about a particular series of posts, you should know that I have to pick my jaw up off my desk as I gaze at wonder at what you are achieving! Keep up the great work.
Thank you Mike for your sympathetic appreciation.
Over the years, I've got worked up into this detailing and now I can't let go.
It's great if you like it as connoisseur of matter, but watch out for your jaw.
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#1161 by roma847 on 23 Feb, 2017 12:24
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Thank you Manfred. Downloading the HUGE file as I type. YES This is the file I was looking for
You are the best.
I will definitely present by development on NSF, but let me admit it at the onset that it will be nowhere close to the detailing you have done.
One more question, even at the 160 scale i wanted to make the crawler move
i.e. have a motor and gears. If i was to use this scale the crawler truck size would be about (LxWXH) 55mmX40mmX13mm. Any idea where i will be able to procure the drive mechanish.
Hi Pankaj,
as it seems, you are full of enthusiasm, which I do not want to slow down.
But first of all think exactly about what you want to build, so that you do not overreach.
BTW, for a mobile crawler, you need alone 456 track shoes.
Source: NASA
Therefore I suggest you should start your own thread where we can discuss all these questions because that could become a bottomless pit, okay?
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#1162 by roma847 on 28 Feb, 2017 22:31
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Hello everybody,
after a welcome pause and deflection by various winter sport world championships last week, I will now return to the base and have been busy in the meantime again with the Water Bags, which also belong to the SSWS.
Source: flickr.com (Jen Scheer)
I have already reported on the task of this sub-system a long time ago, where you can read once more again.
Whether these water bags were already red and yellow, or uniformly red in the early missions such as STS-6, I have unfortunately not yet been able to find out.
On this older picture here, it looks as if they were uniformly red at the time. Perhaps someone of you knows the answer. 
Source: capcomespace.net
To warm up, I have looked around again and followed up some details, which I noticed during the analysis of the clamping rings again and again.
These are, on the one hand, these rings on the anterior four outlets of the two ring lines, which one can zoom within the panorama pic.
Source: NASA
And then there are also several fastening hooks for the yellow water bags suspended around the SRBs,
,
Source: http://www.youtube.com
which can be seen on these pictures,
Source: flickr.com (Jen Scheer)
and are marked here.
Source: NASA
At first I have tried the rings and searched for a suitable insulating sleeve to cut off thin discs, just as I had made the transport rings on the covers of the Rainbirds between the H-beams.
While I was able to use a Ø 0,7 mm sleeve at that time, these rings had to be even smaller with Ø 0.4 mm, so I wanted to try it with my smallest insulating sleeve (Ø 0,5 mm), what certainly would be still a little too big.
And then I remembered PE Bolts and Nuts by ABER of different size, which I had bought earlier, which should be suitable, if a suitable diameter were thereby.
Source: ABER
These are bolts and nuts in increments of 1.5 mm - 1.25 mm - 1.0 mm - 0.8 mm - 0.6 mm up to 0.4 mm,
, which however are so tiny that one can hardly see them in the last two rows. 
And from these nuts I then have drilled out the first two (right) with my smallest drill with Ø 0.25 mm, 
and then cut out, which should become even better.
And then I tried again with a smaller cutter.
But how to fix this tiny ring onto the 18'' outlet, which is sitting on an insect needle (Ø 0.25 mm), which can not be held in place with the most pointed tweezers.
That took a bit longer and was pure stress, which is why I almost wanted to give up.
For this I have dabbed a tiny CA droplet to the bending and then tried to place the ring, which was sitting on the tip of the needle, so carefully, and at the same time pull out the needle, so that both do not glue together.
After several failed attempts, it actually worked well, and the result looks pretty good as I find.
But whether I should really do this effort, I do not know yet,
if so, then I would have to come up with a better gluing handling.
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#1163 by Ronpur50 on 01 Mar, 2017 02:20
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Wow! That is TINY!!!
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#1164 by IanThePineapple on 01 Mar, 2017 02:24
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Amazing work, I'd recommend making entirely red water bags, and having a removable yellow section to put on top of the red section in case you discover they were red/yellow or plain red later.
I don't know what color they were there, but that's just an idea
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#1165 by roma847 on 01 Mar, 2017 22:49
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Wow! That is TINY!!!
Thanks Ron,
yep, it's a microscopic detail, but now, where it is glued, one can even recognize the ring with the naked eye.
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#1166 by roma847 on 01 Mar, 2017 23:02
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Amazing work, I'd recommend making entirely red water bags, and having a removable yellow section to put on top of the red section in case you discover they were red/yellow or plain red later.
I don't know what color they were there, but that's just an idea
Thanks Ian for your proposal,
but I strongly suspect that the Water Bags were all red in the early missions, as in these images of STS-2, at which, however, MLP-1 was in use.
Source: capcomespace.net
Source: NASA
Source: capcomespace.net
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#1167 by Darren_Hensley on 02 Mar, 2017 21:58
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May I ask, What did these do that the suppression systems did not take care of?
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#1168 by roma847 on 03 Mar, 2017 14:47
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Hi Darren,
please let me explain it briefly.
At STS-1 still no SSWS was installed on MLP-1, but rather only the six Rainbirds, as can be seen in this picture.
Source: NASA
But their protection against the enormous pressure and sound waves as well as the vibrations during the Booster ignition was not sufficient, which was initially underestimated by the NASA engineers, because after the first launch external damages at the MLP as well as on the Orbiter were noticed.
Therefore, for STS-2 a Sound Suppression Water System (SSWS) has been installed to protect the orbiter and its payloads from damage by acoustical energy and rocket exhaust reflected from the flame trench and MLP during launch.
Source: NASA
This SSWS consists of a water spray system consisting of ring lines and outlets around the SRB holes and a SRB Overpressure Suppression System, consisting of a series of Water Bags which are stretched across the holes, providing a water barrier to dampen the reflected pressure pulse.
Both components used together, this water barrier blocks the path of the reflected pressure wave during the Booster ignition, greatly decreasing its intensity.
Maybe this can help.
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#1169 by DaveS on 03 Mar, 2017 15:11
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Actually, for STS-1 the SWSS was installed, there wasn't any for the SRBs. They thought that the SRM IOP was small enough to not require any mitigation efforts. This was proven severely wrong during the launch of STS-1. Here's a document that details the SRM IOP investigations for the Space Shuttle: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19820011425.pdf
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#1170 by roma847 on 03 Mar, 2017 17:20
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Thanks Dave for sharing this interesting dokument.
I think this is a question of the specification of the systems that were installed or planned at the time.
BTW, do you know since when the red and yellow water bags were used on the different MLPs?
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#1171 by roma847 on 04 Mar, 2017 20:15
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Hey Dave, what's going on,
do you have no desire to answer, or don't you know?
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#1172 by roma847 on 05 Mar, 2017 19:39
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Hey Dave, what's going on,
do you have no desire to answer, or don't you know?
No answer is also an answer ...
Sorry, I don't know how one can say in Sweden, but in Germany we say: Who does not want, has already ...
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#1173 by DaveS on 05 Mar, 2017 21:32
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Hey Dave, what's going on,
I have been busy elsewhere. And answer is that I don't know when they began using the yellow water troughs.
do you have no desire to answer, or don't you know? -
#1174 by roma847 on 06 Mar, 2017 05:19
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Thanks!
Too bad, it could have been ...
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#1175 by roma847 on 08 Mar, 2017 10:46
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Hello everybody,
in the meantime, I have a tough time of it with the rings, because I do not give up so quickly.
Here are some more or less well done rings together with the needle (Ø 0.25 mm), which I can safely forget in order to hold the rings when gluing.
On the macros, these midgets still look quite grippy, therefore here for the relativization a shot from normal sitting position.
And therefore the handling is only possible with the headset-magnifying glass, of course.
And also the solution with the Pattafix tip on the toothpick is not the yellow of the egg, because sometimes tiny remnants of Pattafix stick to the ring, which can be removed only badly, without the ring thereby perhaps tear off again.
Therefore using a toothpick with a tip made of a masking tape is much more suitable for this purpose,
with which the ring can be gently taken up, in order to be able to deposit it over the CA droplet on the outlet arc, where it should then glue. 
And this technique has then worked well with the following ring, as one can see here.
And so it went on with the two rings at the outlets on the inside of the ring line (right circles) behind the LOX-TSM,
Source: NASA
which can be seen here.
And strengthened by this partial success, I now also want to equip the outlets on the ring line behind the LH2-TSM with these rings.
Well, and then I've experimented with the hooks for the lateral Water Bags.
Source: NASA
To do this, I have initially put simple plugs of lead wire (Ø 0,3 mm) in pre-drilled holes on a dummy.
And these are two hooks, to the left of my thinnest rods (Ø 0,3 mm) and right of brass wire (Ø 0,3 mm),
which are still too high with 1 mm and have to shrink to half.
Since I'm not enthusiastic about the result, I have to outbrake myself now and will cancel these hook tests.
In addition, the fragile outlets could break off during pre-drilling, what I would not risk at all. 
With these details, I am moving in the border area of what is doable with reasonable effort, because they are so tiny that one can hardly recognize them, which is why the effort is not worthwhile.
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#1176 by roma847 on 10 Mar, 2017 22:18
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Hello friends of the rings,
although this fiddling is getting slowly but surely on my nerves too, I have still to pull through the four rings at the outlets of the other ring line, earlier I give no rest. 
But that was once again a hard patience test, especially since the handling while gluing these tiny rings even with my cool tape tweezers was really stressful, because it didn't release the rings occasionally at the crucial moment.
But then the two rings on the outside of the ring line were finally done.
But even taking photographs of this bulky pipe skeleton is not a simple matter, and it is also quite time-consuming, if one wants to represent the details sharp, because it depends on a favorable perspective as well as the light conditions.
And since for good macros one has to approach as close as possible, one must be careful, in order not to bump with the Digicam somewhere and even to damage.
And so to the outlets on the inside of the ring line,
here something more from the proximity.
Now, both ring lines are finally finished and could be painted.
Of the rings one can hardly see anything from this perspective, but they are completed, wherewith this chapter is finally finished.
So far for today.
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#1177 by OV135 on 12 Mar, 2017 23:06
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How did you make the pipes using plastic? The way they are shaped? I'm planning the same for my 1/72 scale model. How did you get the pipes to bent into curves like that?
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#1178 by roma847 on 13 Mar, 2017 06:25
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Hey OV135,
you can see my Balsa-Jig & Bending-Technique I presented last year, one of the best ideas I had so far.
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#1179 by roma847 on 13 Mar, 2017 18:07
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Hello everybody,
after all the clamping rings have been installed now, the question now arises about the further procedure with regard to painting (airbrush) of the ring lines, about which I have been tinkering for a while.
I am not quite sure whether I should glue the supports before painting (possibly with MEK?), or whether I paint all the supports and the ring lines first separately and then glue the supports ... 
Here is once more an elder picture with all the supports, but still without clamping rings.
With the clamping rings, the interspaces there will inevitably become even narrower.
To glue the supports previously and then completely paint the whole skeleton with all the supports would certainly be the less expensive method. However, I have doubts whether one reaches with the Airbrush jet into the small interstices between the sickle holders and clamping rings, or whether they could possibly clogged, which of course should not happen.
For this I have here a macro image of the place conditions between the ring line and the supports, whereby the distances between the sickle holders are about 1.5 mm, between which the clamping rings (0.5 mm) sit, whereby one should not be deceived by the real proportion.
Otherwise, I would have to airbrush the supports separately, possibly only from above, and the ring line with the clamping rings at least at the bottom, then gluing the supports and airbrushing once more all together ...
So all in all a pretty tricky decision to a guaranteed stressful procedure, that I must meet now, which is why I am curious what you mean, or what you would advise me ...
You are the best.
i.e. have a motor and gears. If i was to use this scale the crawler truck size would be about (LxWXH) 55mmX40mmX13mm. Any idea where i will be able to procure the drive mechanish.
