Author Topic: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?  (Read 12494 times)

Offline sanman

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SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« on: 11/08/2012 11:59 pm »
Here's an article that caught my eye:

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/economy/2012/11/08/10998/spacex-claims-its-first-victims-rocketdyne-lays-10/

Is SpaceX really responsible for layoffs happening at the "old space" companies?

Offline pippin

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #1 on: 11/09/2012 12:18 am »
You can probably argue about that till the cows come home.

If a new entrant gets a lot of business at a better price, SOMEBODY has to lose, too, there's almost never just growth.

On the other hand, if you need to lay off people, the first thing you'd do is put the blame on the competition.

Truth is probably somewhere in between... Such is life, nothing lasts forever. Long term, something had to happen, the US have been uncompetitive (or not participating) in commercial launch markets for 30 years now. Not saying SpaceX will fix this, but going on like in the past certainly would not have.

Also, don't forget that SpaceX also did already hire quite a lot of people.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 12:22 am by pippin »

Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #2 on: 11/09/2012 12:27 am »
SpaceX seems to be a disruptive force in the industry, but that might be a good thing over the long run.

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #3 on: 11/09/2012 12:52 am »
I would be extremely difficult to link the layoffs at Rocketdyne to SpaceX.

How about the decision to retire the Delta II, which was pre-SpaceX or the retirement of the Shuttle ?


Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #4 on: 11/09/2012 12:59 am »
GenCorp bought Rocketdyne.
Don't they also own AeroJet? If so that could be a reason for some of the layoffs as they may want to put some of their own people in Rocketdyne.

For who Rocketdyne supplies are those launch providers having less launches now and in the near future?
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 01:02 am by RocketmanUS »

Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #5 on: 11/09/2012 01:15 am »
The first sentence of the article says: "Not directly." So even the article (besides the title) indicates there is no connection that layoffs were caused by SpaceX. This is a very poorly written article with basically no content or facts to back up it's "shock title" designed to get people to read further.

Hundreds of companies across the US are laying off employees after the election because of a now guaranteed increase in tax burden going forward.

Another aspect is defense spending cuts. Boeing it setting up to lay off 30% of their  executive work force and is getting rid of property. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-cuts-20121109,0,1833757.story


S





« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 01:18 am by Hooperball »

Offline tigerade

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #6 on: 11/09/2012 01:28 am »
The first sentence of the article says: "Not directly." So even the article (besides the title) indicates there is no connection that layoffs were caused by SpaceX.

Yep, it's a classic bait and switch article.  It has an attention-grabbing title in order to get you to click on it, but has no real content.

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #7 on: 11/09/2012 01:54 am »
Rediculous.  Layoffs happen frequently in oil and gas.  When they do, no one blames perceived successful companies for doing it 'better'.  Certainly not commonly. 

To put such a notion in a headline, when there are many growing aerospace companies and shifting external factors (like demand for what they do/did) in the teeth of a new owners restructuring, is bad manners at best.

Incidentally, a lot of the brains from aerojet ended up at places like Clean Energy Systems (basically some of the orbital maneuvering system guys (designers) are building rockets for the oil and gas industry).  I met a few.  They are really old, but still bright lights.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 01:55 am by go4mars »
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Offline mduncan36

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #8 on: 11/09/2012 02:03 am »
For one company to complain that the competition causes their layoffs begs the question "Why did you choose not to compete?"

Offline QuantumG

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #9 on: 11/09/2012 02:16 am »
For one company to complain that the competition causes their layoffs begs the question "Why did you choose not to compete?"

Aerojet beat them to it. AJ-26 engines on Orbital Sciences' Antares rocket competes directly with SpaceX.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #10 on: 11/09/2012 02:33 am »
The base article has the correct title...

http://www.dailynews.com/business/ci_21952197/rocketdyne-lays-off-100-mostly-san-fernando-valley


The layoffs were effective immediately Nov 7th 2012.

"The uncertain future of the space industry and current economic conditions have created an environment where we must take these steps to ensure we remain competitive," the company said in a statement.

The company didn't mention SpaceX. Anything further is speculation.

S
 

Offline WHAP

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #11 on: 11/09/2012 02:41 am »
For one company to complain that the competition causes their layoffs begs the question "Why did you choose not to compete?"


Talk about a misleading statement. 
ULA employee.  My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #12 on: 11/09/2012 02:54 am »
The base article has the correct title...

http://www.dailynews.com/business/ci_21952197/rocketdyne-lays-off-100-mostly-san-fernando-valley


The layoffs were effective immediately Nov 7th 2012.

"The uncertain future of the space industry and current economic conditions have created an environment where we must take these steps to ensure we remain competitive," the company said in a statement.

The company didn't mention SpaceX. Anything further is speculation.

S
 
Day after the election.
Can give us a clue as were NASA might not be going now!

Offline dcporter

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #13 on: 11/09/2012 04:58 am »
Hundreds of companies across the US are laying off employees after the election because of a now guaranteed increase in tax burden going forward.

Please provide a shred of evidence for this causal theory. Idle partisan speculation is off-topic.

Day after the election.
Can give us a clue as were NASA might not be going now!

How do you mean?

Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #14 on: 11/09/2012 05:51 am »
Here's three layoffs (aviation and aerospace) announced Nov 7th 2012: Boeing, PWR, And Hawker Beechcraft:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-cuts-20121109,0,1833757.story

http://www.dailynews.com/business/ci_21952197/rocketdyne-lays-off-100-mostly-san-fernando-valley

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/hawker_beechcraft_layoff_207658-1.html


Sorry if you considered my comment partisan or off topic. This forum isn't the place for anything other than Space Politics so I wont let this thread get dragged of topic.

My whole point was that the original article about SpaceX is misleading and that PWR is facing other challenges going forward.

PWR cited "The uncertain future" and the "current economic conditions" as the reason for layoffs not SpaceX.

S

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #15 on: 11/09/2012 07:11 am »
PWR has been facing challenges for a *long* time (reduced business leading to being acquired more than once), the only surprising thing about these layoffs is that they didn't happen much earlier.

Virtually all of these 'Nov 7 layoffs' are companies finding opportune moment for layoffs that were coming anyways. Now they can blame the election instead of their own performance. (Just like bad press releases tend to go out on Friday afternoons to ease the stock price hit and news cycle exposure)
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 07:19 am by Lars_J »

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #16 on: 11/09/2012 07:18 am »
Day after the election.
Can give us a clue as were NASA might not be going now!

How do you mean?
If they are laying off these workers, then were do you think NASA is going?
What did these employees do? How will that effect orders from NASA if they were to get any orders from NASA?

If the economy was to improve and jobs be returning then why are so many companies laying off workers? There are more layoffs than hirings .
And why did this just happen after the election and not days before?

As I don't expect any answer from anyone, I prefer you to just think about the above questions.

Please read the links below and the link to a PDF on the Beechcraft layoffs.

Here's three layoffs (aviation and aerospace) announced Nov 7th 2012: Boeing, PWR, And Hawker Beechcraft:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-cuts-20121109,0,1833757.story

http://www.dailynews.com/business/ci_21952197/rocketdyne-lays-off-100-mostly-san-fernando-valley

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/hawker_beechcraft_layoff_207658-1.html


Sorry if you considered my comment partisan or off topic. This forum isn't the place for anything other than Space Politics so I wont let this thread get dragged of topic.

My whole point was that the original article about SpaceX is misleading and that PWR is facing other challenges going forward.

PWR cited "The uncertain future" and the "current economic conditions" as the reason for layoffs not SpaceX.

S

PWR has been facing challenges for *long* time, the only surprising thing about these layoffs is that they didn't happen much earlier.

Virtually all of these 'Nov 7 layoffs' are companies finding opportune moment for layoffs that were coming anyways. Now they can blame the election instead of their own performance. (Just like bad press releases tend to go ouit on Friday afternoons to ease the stock price hit and news cycle exposure)
Check out this link for job layoffs. There are others listed before Tuesday.
http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/

Offline pippin

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #17 on: 11/09/2012 10:37 am »
And why did this just happen after the election and not days before?

At least that one is simple: A day after an election is usually the _perfect_ day to announce something you want as few people as possible to take notice of because everybody is talking about other things.
Here in Germany we also often see this happening during football championships. No kidding. Same for unpopular political decisions.

If you make a press release on November 7th, there is absolutely no way you can have made the actual decision based on the election result, you will have made the decision much earlier.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2012 10:58 am by pippin »

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #18 on: 11/09/2012 11:29 am »
And why did this just happen after the election and not days before?

At least that one is simple: A day after an election is usually the _perfect_ day to announce something you want as few people as possible to take notice of because everybody is talking about other things.
Here in Germany we also often see this happening during football championships. No kidding. Same for unpopular political decisions.

If you make a press release on November 7th, there is absolutely no way you can have made the actual decision based on the election result, you will have made the decision much earlier.
Yes, and the companies involved than waited deliberately to the day after the election. I agree, those job cuts have been coming for a while, regardless of the outcome of the elections.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Causing Layoffs at Other Companies?
« Reply #19 on: 11/09/2012 11:47 am »
Day after the election.
Can give us a clue as were NASA might not be going now!

How do you mean?
If they are laying off these workers, then were do you think NASA is going?
What did these employees do? How will that effect orders from NASA if they were to get any orders from NASA?

If the economy was to improve and jobs be returning then why are so many companies laying off workers? There are more layoffs than hirings .
And why did this just happen after the election and not days before?

As I don't expect any answer from anyone, I prefer you to just think about the above questions.


This has nothing to do directly with NASA and the election.  It has to do with shuttle and Delta II ending.

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