Author Topic: SpaceX: Mars Colonial Transporter "MCT" -- Speculation (not Raptor) (Read 717560 times)

RocketmanUS · « **Reply #1020 on:** 06/20/2013 06:26 am »

Quote from: Lobo on 06/20/2013 05:55 am

Quote from: Falcon H on 06/19/2013 04:38 pm
I have a L2 membership and check space news sites every day, yet this is the first I have heard of a methalox "family," I do recall reading an interview with elon where he said something about a new "family" of bigger rockets, but nothing about a "family" of engines. Would you mind showing where you found this?

Well, nothing real definitive. Which is why I say, " Raptor currently looks like it might be a "family" of methalox engines, rather than just one"

Extra emphasis on the might.

I was thinking-
1 ) 1st stage version ( ~650,000lb sea level thrust )
2 ) 2nd stage vacuum version ( thrust rated for the two stage HLV )
3 ) vacuum rated version for the Mars transporter
I assume Mars transporter does not land back on Earth but is
serviced in LEO ( does not need to be relaunched )

All same engine family keeping cost down.
With one one type of engine and not multiple types working with different propellants they only need one team to monitor and work on the engine(s). Same personnel to load he propellants too.

I believe they are attempting to develop a system that will work for Earth and Mars. The Mars transporter may look and operate very similar to the reusable HLV 2nd stage.

Three types of common cores- ( possibility )
1) two stage to orbit 1st stage common core
2 ) booster common ( for tri core launcher )
3 ) core common ( for tri core launcher )

Two launch vehicles- ( possibility )
1 ) two stage to LEO RLV
2 ) tri core to LEO, boosters and core ( cross feed ) at lift off, boosters separate and core burns to LEO, core returns to Earth and reused being their HLV

sittingduck · « **Reply #1021 on:** 07/15/2013 05:41 pm »

Elon Musk in a reply to (NSF native?) Tinker on Twitter has stated that Tinker's sketch of SpaceX Mars plans are "pretty close" to what he has in mind. Please remove if this isn't relevant enough, but it isn't as if there's much to go on at this point.

The MCT diagram: http://twitpic.com/d1rwr6.

Elon's tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356826725805588482

PlanetStorm · « **Reply #1022 on:** 07/15/2013 05:50 pm »

Quote from: sittingduck on 07/15/2013 05:41 pm

Elon Musk in a reply to (NSF native?) Tinker on Twitter has stated that Tinker's sketch of SpaceX Mars plans are "pretty close" to what he has in mind. Please remove if this isn't relevant enough, but it isn't as if there's much to go on at this point.

The MCT diagram: http://twitpic.com/d1rwr6.

Elon's tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356826725805588482

I don't get it. With a diagram as generic as that, who amongst us would have drawn anything very different?

R7 · « **Reply #1023 on:** 07/15/2013 06:05 pm »

Quote from: sittingduck on 07/15/2013 05:41 pm

The MCT diagram: http://twitpic.com/d1rwr6.

The second stage appears to do TMI, Mars landing, Mars ascent and TEI. That's some potent second stage!

meekGee · « **Reply #1024 on:** 07/15/2013 06:07 pm »

The heart of the matter is that the second stage is also the Earth departure stage, and also the Mars ascend stage.

What constitutes "pretty close" is anyone's guess though.

sublimemarsupial · « **Reply #1025 on:** 07/15/2013 06:12 pm »

Quote from: PlanetStorm on 07/15/2013 05:50 pm

Quote from: sittingduck on 07/15/2013 05:41 pm
Elon Musk in a reply to (NSF native?) Tinker on Twitter has stated that Tinker's sketch of SpaceX Mars plans are "pretty close" to what he has in mind. Please remove if this isn't relevant enough, but it isn't as if there's much to go on at this point.

The MCT diagram: http://twitpic.com/d1rwr6.

Elon's tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356826725805588482

I don't get it. With a diagram as generic as that, who amongst us would have drawn anything very different?

Many people here. I suggested that the MCT second stage would reenter earth's atmosphere and land back at its original launch site on this thread a while back and was told that "downmass to earth wasn't required" and that the mars transporter would remain in orbit, with people/supplies surely ferried up via Dragon/F9, since SpaceX has already spent so much developing those assets.

sittingduck · « **Reply #1026 on:** 07/15/2013 06:13 pm »

Quote from: PlanetStorm on 07/15/2013 05:50 pm

I don't get it. With a diagram as generic as that, who amongst us would have drawn anything very different?

I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of crazy ideas floating around this thread. It wasn't even sure the "M" in MCT stood for Mars when the thread began. We knew only two things before today, the meaning of the acronym and the fact that it has to be reusable.

Now we're looking at a rough analogue to FX Heavy (with fully reusable first stage and side-boosters) as the LV, second stage and MCT both cruise to Mars and both land, refueling in-situ and both returning to Earth for re-use. That's fairly specific, albeit kind of "duh".

ClaytonBirchenough · « **Reply #1027 on:** 07/15/2013 06:16 pm »

Quote from: sittingduck on 07/15/2013 06:13 pm

We knew only two things before today, the meaning of the acronym and the fact that it has to be reusable.

Am I missing some breaking news?

sittingduck · « **Reply #1028 on:** 07/15/2013 06:18 pm »

Quote from: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/15/2013 06:16 pm

Am I missing some breaking news?

Only news is that Elon made the vague statement that the MCT diagram (linked above) is "pretty close" to what he has in mind for a Mars architecture.

Potentially, that could mean almost nothing, if the "going to Mars" was the only point of similarity

ClaytonBirchenough · « **Reply #1029 on:** 07/15/2013 06:25 pm »

Quote from: sittingduck on 07/15/2013 06:18 pm

Only news is that Elon made the vague statement that the MCT diagram (linked above) is "pretty close" to what he has in mind for a Mars architecture.

Potentially, that could mean almost nothing, if the "going to Mars" was the only point of similarity

Wow, two posts up's the answer. Sorry got all excited haha

That's interesting though... Any idea on what the launch vehicle is? I imagine something like a Falcon X Heavy. It's just a picture, so could mean anything really...

tinker · « **Reply #1030 on:** 07/15/2013 06:32 pm »

Folks:

Yep, that was my tweet. I have posted some of my ideas here but didn't make much of an impact so I decided to go to the source. I hope this helps you further along down the path.

The 'rocket' is just a Falcon XX I pouched off Google images. The actual rocket doesn't matter, it's just there for illustration purposes. All that matters is that the MCT part uses methane as a fuel and the whole thing is big!

BTW: I was pretty much right 'hypothesizing' the HyperLoop too:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356818414431506432

tinker (John Gardi)

Jim · « **Reply #1031 on:** 07/15/2013 06:36 pm »

Quote from: tinker on 07/15/2013 06:32 pm

Folks:

Yep, that was my tweet. I have posted some of my ideas here but didn't make much of an impact so I decided to go to the source. I hope this helps you further along down the path.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30103.msg1074626#msg1074626

ClaytonBirchenough · « **Reply #1032 on:** 07/15/2013 06:39 pm »

Quote from: tinker on 07/15/2013 06:32 pm

Folks:

Yep, that was my tweet. I have posted some of my ideas here but didn't make much of an impact so I decided to go to the source. I hope this helps you further along down the path.

The 'rocket' is just a Falcon XX I pouched off Google images. The actual rocket doesn't matter, it's just there for illustration purposes. All that matters is that the MCT part uses methane as a fuel and the whole thing is big!

BTW: I was pretty much right 'hypothesizing' the HyperLoop too:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/356818414431506432

tinker (John Gardi)

I know it probably is, but is it just speculation on the methane as the fuel?

tinker · « **Reply #1033 on:** 07/15/2013 06:51 pm »

Quote from: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/15/2013 06:39 pm

I know it probably is, but is it just speculation on the methane as the fuel?

Clayton:

Nope:

https://soundcloud.com/john-gardi/elonmuskteslivespacexmethane

tinker

ClaytonBirchenough · « **Reply #1034 on:** 07/15/2013 06:54 pm »

Quote from: tinker on 07/15/2013 06:51 pm

Clayton:

Nope:

https://soundcloud.com/john-gardi/elonmuskteslivespacexmethane

tinker

Yup, thanks. Interesting solar power was mentioned... doesn't mean power source can't change later though.

tinker · « **Reply #1035 on:** 07/15/2013 07:05 pm »

Folks:

If you do a little research, you'll discover I published the MCT flowchart before Elon dropped that clue on Saturday at Teslive.

I have decades of research experience. Sometimes lives depended on me getting it right the first time with insufficient data. Considering the minimal consequences on me getting things wrong here, I can safely say I'm doing this for fun. I do take all your comments and criticisms seriously though!

tinker

Joel · « **Reply #1036 on:** 07/15/2013 07:27 pm »

Quote from: meekGee on 07/15/2013 06:07 pm

The heart of the matter is that the second stage is also the Earth departure stage, and also the Mars ascend stage.

This would certainly make the whole design a lot simpler. Buddy-refueling such stages also would also make a lot of sense IMO.

Occupymars · « **Reply #1037 on:** 07/15/2013 07:29 pm »

Quote from: tinker on 07/15/2013 07:05 pm

If you do a little research, you'll discover I published the MCT flowchart before Elon dropped that clue on Saturday at Teslive.

I can attest to that but tinker you should have replaced the fairing on the second stage whit a large capsule in the diagram!

Rabidpanda · « **Reply #1038 on:** 07/15/2013 07:31 pm »

I've always thought it would make sense for MCT to be a single vehicle that launches from Earth, refuels in LEO, travels to Mars, lands on Mars, refuels, and then returns to Earth. It seems like it would simplify the whole architecture a lot.

R7 · « **Reply #1039 on:** 07/15/2013 07:35 pm »

Please help me to get excited here; it is revealed that MCT means something goes to Mars .. and comes back .. and .. that's it?