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Beidou-3 M1-S/M2-S - CZ-3B/YZ-1 - Xichang - July 25, 2015 (12:29 UTC)
by
beidou
on 24 Sep, 2012 19:40
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A new thread dedicated to the Compass satellite launches in 2013 and afterwards.
Currently there is no information on Compass launches following the deployment of regional Compass satellite navigation system by the end of 2012 (with the assumption of successful launch of Compass-G6 or G2R in October).
The code name of this mission is 07-64.
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#1
by
Watchdog
on 24 Sep, 2012 23:59
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It seems that China restricts the Beidou 2 navigation system to each 5 satellites in geostationary, inclined and medium earth orbit. This would allow regional coverage.
However, work on the third generation of the Beidou system for global coverage has already started. According to
www.skyrocket.de this system will consist of 5 satellites Beidou 3-G in geostationary orbit, 3 satellites Beidou 3-I in inclined orbit and 27 satellites Beidou 3-M in medium earth orbit.
The launch of all these third generation satellites requires CZ-3B/E or even new CZ-5 launchers for multiple Beidou-Ms. With an estimated life endurance of about 8 years, first Beidou 3 launches can be expected in about 4 years, and the system may be operational before 2020.
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#2
by
beidou
on 26 Nov, 2012 20:31
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#3
by
beidou
on 29 Apr, 2013 21:13
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Various chinese sources reported this launch will be in late 2014.
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#4
by
beidou
on 17 May, 2013 10:47
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http://news.cntv.cn/2013/05/17/VIDE1368778320570332.shtmlFrom an interview with the director of China Satellite Navigation Office (CSNO)), CCTV reported that 3-4 Beidou MEO satellites will be launched in 2014, as all core technological barriers have been conquered.
We could also expect the global coverage will be achieved earlier than 2020, the original planned date.
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#5
by
beidou
on 27 Jun, 2013 06:36
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#6
by
beidou
on 29 Jan, 2014 18:44
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#7
by
beidou
on 24 Mar, 2015 18:09
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I'm not sure why this thread was eventually forgotten. Bump it up and reserve it for BeiDou launch later this year.
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#8
by
beidou
on 21 Apr, 2015 18:54
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#9
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jun, 2015 06:40
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#10
by
Satori
on 26 Jun, 2015 16:37
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#11
by
Nighthawk
on 03 Jul, 2015 08:49
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Per chinese report, these two satellites are manufactured by CAST. Considering the dual launch config, twin MEO sat sounds plausible.
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#12
by
beidou
on 07 Jul, 2015 18:10
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#13
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 13 Jul, 2015 16:23
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#14
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 23 Jul, 2015 14:47
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#15
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 24 Jul, 2015 05:27
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Finally some confirmation:
A2042/15 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N2417E10608-N2446E10541-N2435E10527-N2407E10555 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS:GND-UNL. GND - UNL, 25 JUL 12:11 2015 UNTIL 25 JUL 12:45 2015. CREATED: 24 JUL 03:08 2015
A2043/15 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N1806E11151-N1844E11119-N1817E11044-N1739E11115 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS:GND-UNL. GND - UNL, 25 JUL 12:20 2015 UNTIL 25 JUL 12:57 2015. CREATED: 24 JUL 03:10 2015
Liftoff should be around 12:15 UTC.
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#16
by
input~2
on 24 Jul, 2015 08:02
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Finally some confirmation:
A2042/15 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N2417E10608-N2446E10541-N2435E10527-N2407E10555 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS:GND-UNL. GND - UNL, 25 JUL 12:11 2015 UNTIL 25 JUL 12:45 2015. CREATED: 24 JUL 03:08 2015
A2043/15 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N1806E11151-N1844E11119-N1817E11044-N1739E11115 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS:GND-UNL. GND - UNL, 25 JUL 12:20 2015 UNTIL 25 JUL 12:57 2015. CREATED: 24 JUL 03:10 2015
Liftoff should be around 12:15 UTC.
A2042/15 now republished as
A2047/15 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N2417E10608-N2446E10541-N2435E10527-N2407E10555 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS:GND-UNL. GND - UNL, 25 JUL 12:11 2015 UNTIL 25 JUL 12:45 2015. CREATED: 24 JUL 07:07 2015
Similar NOTAMed areas as for Compass M5/M6 CZ-3B boosters and fairing debris - September 18 2012 launch.
So these 2 should go to MEO.
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#17
by
beidou
on 24 Jul, 2015 16:47
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Confirmation from Prof. Richard Langley "Reports from usually reliable sources indicate a BeiDou launch will occur tomorrow, Saturday, 25 July 2015, around 12:15 UTC. Speculation is that a pair of satellites will be launched into MEO."
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#18
by
Satori
on 24 Jul, 2015 20:25
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Is there any source about the satellites designation?
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#19
by
anik
on 25 Jul, 2015 07:01
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Confirmation from Prof. Richard Langley "Reports from usually reliable sources indicate a BeiDou launch will occur tomorrow, Saturday, 25 July 2015, around 12:15 UTC. Speculation is that a pair of satellites will be launched into MEO."
It is a circle. It is obviously. The "usually reliable sources" is NSF forum.
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#20
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 09:50
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Is there any source about the satellites designation?
Yup, this launch day mail cover:
http://www.htjyw.cn/read.php?tid=7677&fid=22 
And there are other sources that does point to these two satellites being MEO satellites - one of which is
this official article back in May on the production of BDS satellites by CAST (which built the two that will fly today) that mentioned 2 "2.2 m high smaller satellites" in final testing and a bigger "3.6 m high satellite" also in testing on CAST's BDS satellite production line. The bigger satellite might be a GEO bound satellite to be flown later this year.
Speaking of which,
since the "father of Chinese GNSS" Sun Jiadong mentioned last month that there will be 4 BDS launches in 2015 flying 5 satellites, I guess the launches might look like this:
1. BDS I1-S (produced by CAS - flown March 30)
2. BDS M1-S & M2-S (produced by CAST - flying today)
3. BDS G1-S (in production by CAST)
4. BDS I2-S (?) (in production by CAS)
Alas, there are still no known indications of how the satellite production are distributed to CAST & CAS.....
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#21
by
Chris Bergin
on 25 Jul, 2015 11:07
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Ok folks, let's keep an eye on launch confirmation and any photos. We're just over an hour away for this one.
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#22
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 11:39
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Ok folks, let's keep an eye on launch confirmation and any photos. We're just over an hour away for this one.
It should be easier this time to get news
with several members of the Chinese spaceflight forum I frequently visit currently down in Xichang for the launch. Here's one of them pointing the camera at the pad.
Also note that given the satellites will head directly into the 20000+ km high orbit, don't expect any official news to come until after 4 pm GMT (about 3 hours 45 minutes after launch, the usual time for GPS/GLONASS/Galileo satellites from launch to separation).
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#23
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:09
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Probably only a couple of minutes left before liftoff. I'm still looking for a launch time....
Edit: Saw someone mentioning a 12:28 UTC launch time.
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#24
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:34
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Liftoff confirmed.
(someone posted on 9ifly that it broke up, but I am sure it's bogus)
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#25
by
Chris Bergin
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:36
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Liftoff confirmed.
(someone posted on 9ifly that it broke up, but I am sure it's bogus)
Yikes. Let's hold for a second then.
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#26
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:37
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Liftoff confirmed.
(someone posted on 9ifly that it broke up, but I am sure it's bogus)
Yikes. Let's hold for a second then.
He probably didn't know what a contrail is.... (see below)
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#27
by
Artyom.
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:40
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#28
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:43
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Liftoff confirmed.
(someone posted on 9ifly that it broke up, but I am sure it's bogus)
Yikes. Let's hold for a second then.
Found the culprit tweet - apparently that's the 4 boosters separating illuminated by the sun which has just set 20 minutes before launch!
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#29
by
Chris Bergin
on 25 Jul, 2015 12:44
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#30
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 13:05
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#31
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 13:31
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#32
by
Langley
on 25 Jul, 2015 13:34
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In designations such as I1-S, what does the "S" stand for?
Thanks.
-- Richard Langley
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#33
by
limen4
on 25 Jul, 2015 14:19
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In designations such as I1-S, what does the "S" stand for?
Thanks.
-- Richard Langley
Very likely for "Test" (in Chinese: 试验 = Shiyan)
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#34
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 16:39
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#35
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 25 Jul, 2015 17:14
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Apparently the official launch success confirmation just came in! Liftoff was at 12:29 UTC.
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#36
by
input~2
on 25 Jul, 2015 19:19
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#37
by
edkyle99
on 25 Jul, 2015 19:30
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#38
by
input~2
on 25 Jul, 2015 19:35
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#39
by
input~2
on 25 Jul, 2015 19:55
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#40
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 26 Jul, 2015 03:01
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#41
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 26 Jul, 2015 03:28
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NORAD has orbits for all 4 objects:
40748/2015-037A: 21524 x 22194 km x 54.98 deg. (satellite)
40749/2015-037B: 21526 x 22193 km x 54.98 deg. (satellite)
40750/2015-037C: 190 x 18389 km x 55.00 deg. (LM-3B 3rd stage)
40751/2015-037D: 22151 x 27736 km x 54.89 deg. (YZ-1 upper stage)
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#42
by
input~2
on 26 Jul, 2015 08:07
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#43
by
input~2
on 26 Jul, 2015 09:24
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Launch codename was 07-64
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#44
by
beidou
on 26 Jul, 2015 16:05
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Nice work debunking that GP! 
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/07/china-long-march-3b-dual-beidou/
Let's see if we can get the confirmed T-0. I know Rui will want that in his article!
There is lots of bogus info in that article, I just don't have time to point all of them out. For example, in the article, it mentioned "The launch mass is about 800 kg and the satellites have an operational lifespan of five years"; however, this is just not right - the launch mass is NOT about 800 kg, the lifespan is about 12 years, much longer than the claimed 5 years!
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#45
by
beidou
on 26 Jul, 2015 16:11
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It is a circle. It is obviously. The "usually reliable sources" is NSF forum.
Regarding Chinese launches, the "usually reliable sources" should be 9ifly forum, where GST (and I) has copied and translated lots of information in Chinese. We cannot forget to give credits to them!!
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#46
by
gwiz
on 26 Jul, 2015 16:12
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Nice work debunking that GP!
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/07/china-long-march-3b-dual-beidou/
Let's see if we can get the confirmed T-0. I know Rui will want that in his article!
There is lots of bogus info in that article, I just don't have time to point all of them out. For example, in the article, it mentioned "The launch mass is about 800 kg and the satellites have an operational lifespan of five years"; however, this is just not right - the launch mass is NOT about 800 kg, the lifespan is about 12 years, much longer than the claimed 5 years!
So tell us what the mass actually is, then. You obviously had time to tell us what it isn't.
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#47
by
Star One
on 26 Jul, 2015 16:18
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Nice work debunking that GP!
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/07/china-long-march-3b-dual-beidou/
Let's see if we can get the confirmed T-0. I know Rui will want that in his article!
There is lots of bogus info in that article, I just don't have time to point all of them out. For example, in the article, it mentioned "The launch mass is about 800 kg and the satellites have an operational lifespan of five years"; however, this is just not right - the launch mass is NOT about 800 kg, the lifespan is about 12 years, much longer than the claimed 5 years!
If you're going to start picking holes in articles on here then let's hear the correct information?
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#48
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 26 Jul, 2015 17:18
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Nice work debunking that GP!
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/07/china-long-march-3b-dual-beidou/
Let's see if we can get the confirmed T-0. I know Rui will want that in his article!
There is lots of bogus info in that article, I just don't have time to point all of them out. For example, in the article, it mentioned "The launch mass is about 800 kg and the satellites have an operational lifespan of five years"; however, this is just not right - the launch mass is NOT about 800 kg, the lifespan is about 12 years, much longer than the claimed 5 years!
So tell us what the mass actually is, then. You obviously had time to tell us what it isn't.
What I think his point is aiming at is that the mass figure is for another satellite bus (the one from the Chinese Academy of Sciences team, which the one BDS satellite launched in March uses; these two are from CAST) - IIRC from what I have seen these two should be a bit bigger. Alas, I've not seen any concrete figure as with the majority of Chinese spacecraft.
Even the 12 year lifetime wasn't known until a Chinese report came post launch (
http://scitech.people.com.cn/n/2015/0726/c1007-27361230.html) - though I don't know where the 5 year figure came from since I remember even the "regional generation" satellites have 8 year lifespans.
This is a good example why there's probably nothing more frustrating in the world of spaceflight than following the development of Chinese spaceflight - there are so much mystery, conflicting and vague info out there (especially during the huge growth in recent years) that I think people would agree that it's even more difficult to dig out info than Soviet spaceflight plans back in those days, even with people like me who reads Chinese natively!
This is frustrating especially for getting details on their flagship programs that really has international usage, like the BDS system in discussion here - unlike the other "Big 3" navsat systems, the info on what kind of satellite buses in development and their technical parameters, and the deployment & signal plans are little and often confusing, despite your iPhones and other $700 class smartphones are able to use BDS signals for at least the past 2 years!
That's actually why I'm tempted to continue digging info on Chinese spaceflight for NSF - it's a job that takes a lot of work with few people having the wit to do so.
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#49
by
anik
on 26 Jul, 2015 19:57
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Regarding Chinese launches, the "usually reliable sources" should be 9ifly forum, where GST (and I) has copied and translated lots of information in Chinese. We cannot forget to give credits to them!!
Yes, sure, thanks to you,
Galactic Penguin SST,
Satori,
input~2,
Liss,
limen4 and others. And thanks to 9ifly forum. But my point was that the Richard Langley's "usually reliable sources" is not 9ifly forum, but NASASpaceFlight forum - it is obviously.
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#50
by
beidou
on 27 Jul, 2015 11:15
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If you're going to start picking holes in articles on here then let's hear the correct information?
The exact number is 1014200 g, our "experts" please don't published misleading information if they really have no ideas about it.
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#51
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 11:27
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If you're going to start picking holes in articles on here then let's hear the correct information?
The exact number is 1014200 g, our "experts" please don't published misleading information if they really have no ideas about it.
Interesting information and it is so good that someone on the forum has this info about the satellites mass. Now we all know.
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#52
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 27 Jul, 2015 11:40
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If you're going to start picking holes in articles on here then let's hear the correct information?
The exact number is 1014200 g, our "experts" please don't published misleading information if they really have no ideas about it.
Interesting information and it is so good that someone on the forum has this info about the satellites mass. Now we all know.
This is the source:
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5NTgxNTQzMA==&mid=206812329&idx=1&sn=d56d09b99a2e5416d5f8d738b853795a#rd (again - it was only released today so....)
Apparently the twin satellites also have monitoring cameras like those on CE-5-T1 installed, so maybe we'll see them snapping on Earth later on.
They will also perform direct communication tests with BDS-I1-S later.
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#53
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 12:06
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If you're going to start picking holes in articles on here then let's hear the correct information?
The exact number is 1014200 g, our "experts" please don't published misleading information if they really have no ideas about it.
Interesting information and it is so good that someone on the forum has this info about the satellites mass. Now we all know.
This is the source: http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5NTgxNTQzMA==&mid=206812329&idx=1&sn=d56d09b99a2e5416d5f8d738b853795a#rd (again - it was only released today so....)
That's an interesting reading! Thanks for sharing...
"We both are 2.2 meters tall, weighing 1,014.2 kg, drill a look even appearance are basically the same, difficult for outsiders to separate our area. In addition to individual load carrying different, our state is basically the same design, is a true twin brother."
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#54
by
Langley
on 27 Jul, 2015 15:33
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In designations such as I1-S, what does the "S" stand for?
Thanks.
-- Richard Langley
Very likely for "Test" (in Chinese: 试验 = Shiyan)
In:
http://scitech.people.com.cn/n/2015/0726/c1007-27361230.htmlwe see:
新新星类 or Xīn xīnxīng lèi = "new nova class" or "new new star class"
So, could the "S" designation in the new satellite names be a reference to this new class of BeiDou satellites?
-- Richard Langley
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#55
by
Langley
on 27 Jul, 2015 16:09
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#56
by
Nighthawk
on 27 Jul, 2015 16:30
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In designations such as I1-S, what does the "S" stand for?
Thanks.
-- Richard Langley
Very likely for "Test" (in Chinese: 试验 = Shiyan)
In:
http://scitech.people.com.cn/n/2015/0726/c1007-27361230.html
we see:
新新星类 or Xīn xīnxīng lèi = "new nova class" or "new new star class"
So, could the "S" designation in the new satellite names be a reference to this new class of BeiDou satellites?
-- Richard Langley
Yes, actually it is designation for the first experimental batch of the Beidou-III constellation
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#57
by
Nighthawk
on 27 Jul, 2015 16:31
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#58
by
Langley
on 27 Jul, 2015 16:57
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So, do Forum members agree that we can use the designation "Nova class" for the BeiDou III satellites?
-- Richard Langley
In:
http://scitech.people.com.cn/n/2015/0726/c1007-27361230.htmlwe see:
新新星类 or Xīn xīnxīng lèi = "new nova class" or "new new star class"
So, could the "S" designation in the new satellite names be a reference to this new class of BeiDou satellites?
-- Richard Langley
[/quote]
Yes, actually it is designation for the first experimental batch of the Beidou-III constellation
[/quote]
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#59
by
beidou
on 27 Jul, 2015 20:12
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So, do Forum members agree that we can use the designation "Nova class" for the BeiDou III satellites?
-- Richard Langley
No, I disagree with your proposal. Actually, "BeiDou III" has been mentioned nowhere in reports from Chinese media (only BeiDou II Phase 2 or global system BeiDou have been used), and it was probably an "invention" on this forum. Adding another name will only complicate the situation and deliver more confusing/misleading information.
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#60
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 20:36
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So, do Forum members agree that we can use the designation "Nova class" for the BeiDou III satellites?
-- Richard Langley
No, I disagree with your proposal. Actually, "BeiDou III" has been mentioned nowhere in reports from Chinese media (only BeiDou II Phase 2 or global system BeiDou have been used), and it was probably an "invention" on this forum. Adding another name will only complicate the situation and deliver more confusing/misleading information.
So, why on the 9ifly forum are they using '北斗三号'? Also, many other sites and foruns are using the Beidou-3 designation. Are they all based on the "invention" from this forum?
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#61
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 20:55
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#62
by
beidou
on 27 Jul, 2015 20:56
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So, why on the 9ifly forum are they using '北斗三号'? Also, many other sites and foruns are using the Beidou-3 designation. Are they all based on the "invention" from this forum?
Where did you read "'北斗三号" from 9ifly?? If so, I will be interested to look at.
Can you really read in Chinese?
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#63
by
beidou
on 27 Jul, 2015 21:00
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#64
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 21:10
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So, why on the 9ifly forum are they using '北斗三号'? Also, many other sites and foruns are using the Beidou-3 designation. Are they all based on the "invention" from this forum?
Where did you read "'北斗三号" from 9ifly?? If so, I will be interested to look at.
Can you really read in Chinese?
I really don't need to read Chinese to see that. You can look for yourself on 9ifly.
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#65
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 21:24
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So, why on the 9ifly forum are they using '北斗三号'? Also, many other sites and foruns are using the Beidou-3 designation. Are they all based on the "invention" from this forum?
Where did you read "'北斗三号" from 9ifly?? If so, I will be interested to look at.
Can you really read in Chinese?
You have started several threads on this forum using the 'Beidou-3' designation. Why, if this is wrong?
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#66
by
beidou
on 27 Jul, 2015 21:41
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You have started several threads on this forum using the 'Beidou-3' designation. Why, if this is wrong?
I started my first thread with "BeiDou II Phase 2" right after the launch of BeiDou G6 in Oct 2012. I don't know who has eventually changed it to "BeiDou III", which was exactly an "invention" (as I have mentioned) from this forum.
If you don't believe in me, have a try to put "北斗三号" into Google, and to see if can really find anything.
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#67
by
Satori
on 27 Jul, 2015 21:50
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You have started several threads on this forum using the 'Beidou-3' designation. Why, if this is wrong?
I started my first thread with "BeiDou II Phase 2" right after the launch of BeiDou G6 in Oct 2012. I don't know who has eventually changed it to "BeiDou III", which was exactly an "invention" (as I have mentioned) from this forum.
If you don't believe in me, have a try to put "北斗三号" into Google, and to see if can really find anything.
beidou, I didn't say that I don't believe in you. I'm just saying that I find it hard that this was as «invention» from this forum.
I can point to various sites even in Chinese (
http://www.chinaspaceflight.com/) that are using the "北斗三号" designation. If you google it you'll also find many other sites.
So, to close this matter, what is the official designation given to the satellites?
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#68
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 28 Jul, 2015 01:47
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The problem is that there hasn't really been a coherent official name for the "global phase" BDS satellites, even in Chinese documents. It's like the deal on v1.0/1.1/"1.2" of Falcon 9 - some people - even those in SpaceX - do use them but it's hard to say whether they are "official names". (see, I've again succeeded in bringing SpaceX into a Chinese launch thread
)
While I think "Beidou Phase III" might be slightly better, I think "Beidou-3" can be used for the time being until the Chinese brings in a coherent name.
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#69
by
Satori
on 28 Jul, 2015 08:15
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From sinodefence.com: http://sinodefence.com/2015/07/25/cz3b-launched-two-beidou-m-from-xichang/
"The satellite has a gross mass of 850 kg and a payload capability of 300 kg."
"The designed operational lifespan is 10 years."
This is bogus information, you don't have to copy it over here. Thanks!
What are the right values for gross mass / payload capacity for the satellites?
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#70
by
input~2
on 28 Jul, 2015 10:08
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#71
by
Langley
on 28 Jul, 2015 15:23
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In the professional community, we have been using BeiDou Phase III for some time. I have multiple documents from Chinese authorities (not mass media) where "Phase III" has been used (as well as Phase I and II). I am appending one page from a presentation made at ION GNSS 2011 by X. Ding of the China Satellite Navigation Office as an example.
But my question really wasn't concerning the use of "Phase III" but rather what to call the new version of the satellites themselves (as opposed to the full system). So, to reiterate, can we call them "Nova" class?
-- Richard Langley
So, do Forum members agree that we can use the designation "Nova class" for the BeiDou III satellites?
-- Richard Langley
No, I disagree with your proposal. Actually, "BeiDou III" has been mentioned nowhere in reports from Chinese media (only BeiDou II Phase 2 or global system BeiDou have been used), and it was probably an "invention" on this forum. Adding another name will only complicate the situation and deliver more confusing/misleading information.
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#72
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 28 Jul, 2015 15:41
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In the professional community, we have been using BeiDou Phase III for some time. I have multiple documents from Chinese authorities (not mass media) where "Phase III" has been used (as well as Phase I and II). I am appending one page from a presentation made at ION GNSS 2011 by X. Ding of the China Satellite Navigation Office as an example.
But my question really wasn't concerning the use of "Phase III" but rather what to call the new version of the satellites themselves (as opposed to the full system). So, to reiterate, can we call them "Nova" class?
-- Richard Langley
So, do Forum members agree that we can use the designation "Nova class" for the BeiDou III satellites?
-- Richard Langley
No, I disagree with your proposal. Actually, "BeiDou III" has been mentioned nowhere in reports from Chinese media (only BeiDou II Phase 2 or global system BeiDou have been used), and it was probably an "invention" on this forum. Adding another name will only complicate the situation and deliver more confusing/misleading information.
I don't think so, because "Nova" is a mis-translation of "a new class of satellites" which isn't a name by itself, just an adjective. Unfortunately I have not seen any official name of the new blocks of satellites....
....and the confusing continues from there, because for the phase III satellites 2 different satellites producers are now both building them, some with the Chinese Academy of Space Technology (CAST) and others with the Shanghai Small Satellite Center of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), with their individual share unknown to the public! I1-S came from the CAS team while M1/2-S came from CAST.
Alas, unlike the other "Big 3" systems, I doubt we will know soon on the technical parameters of the various satellite buses the Chinese uses....
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#73
by
limen4
on 28 Jul, 2015 19:58
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From sinodefence.com: http://sinodefence.com/2015/07/25/cz3b-launched-two-beidou-m-from-xichang/
"The satellite has a gross mass of 850 kg and a payload capability of 300 kg."
"The designed operational lifespan is 10 years."
This is bogus information, you don't have to copy it over here. Thanks!
What are the right values for gross mass / payload capacity for the satellites?
I guess that sinodefence has accidently used the data of the I-1S satellite made by Shanghai based SECM. M-1S and M-2S are actually made by CAST. I found in my collection 2 slides (sorry, I have forgot the source) which introduce the CAST MEO satellites. There are a lot of information (including mass) but unfortunately in Chinese. Maybe our friends from China can help to translate.
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#74
by
input~2
on 29 Jul, 2015 05:32
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I found in my collection 2 slides (sorry, I have forgot the source) which introduce the CAST MEO satellites. There are a lot of information (including mass) but unfortunately in Chinese.
These 2 slides are part of a CAST presentation dated May 2010 on navigation satellite technology which I attach.
The first slide describes a MEO satellite which reaches MEO using its own propulsion system (mass <2200 kg)
The second slide describes the case of a MEO satellite injected directly in MEO (mass < 1000kg)
Since M1-S and M2-S were injected directly in MEO I assume they belong to the second case.
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#75
by
Nighthawk
on 29 Jul, 2015 14:18
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I found in my collection 2 slides (sorry, I have forgot the source) which introduce the CAST MEO satellites. There are a lot of information (including mass) but unfortunately in Chinese.
These 2 slides are part of a CAST presentation dated May 2010 on navigation satellite technology which I attach.
The first slide describes a MEO satellite which reaches MEO using its own propulsion system (mass <2200 kg)
The second slide describes the case of a MEO satellite injected directly in MEO (mass < 1000kg)
Since M1-S and M2-S were injected directly in MEO I assume they belong to the second case.
Yes, I agree with you on that. But note that, Beidou-Phase-III I-1S is also based on a small platform (by CAS) and needs to be injected directly in IGSO (and it's even smaller!), which differs from what the 2010 CAST presentation shows. A major difference is there is no RDSS payload.
@Langley: I think we may refer the new MEO/IGSO satellites as kind of 'new design'. I don't know exactly how people name GPS-III versus GPS-IIF - it's roughly the same thing here.
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#76
by
baldusi
on 29 Jul, 2015 20:52
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I found in my collection 2 slides (sorry, I have forgot the source) which introduce the CAST MEO satellites. There are a lot of information (including mass) but unfortunately in Chinese.
These 2 slides are part of a CAST presentation dated May 2010 on navigation satellite technology which I attach.
The first slide describes a MEO satellite which reaches MEO using its own propulsion system (mass <2200 kg)
The second slide describes the case of a MEO satellite injected directly in MEO (mass < 1000kg)
Since M1-S and M2-S were injected directly in MEO I assume they belong to the second case.
Yes, I agree with you on that. But note that, Beidou-Phase-III I-1S is also based on a small platform (by CAS) and needs to be injected directly in IGSO (and it's even smaller!), which differs from what the 2010 CAST presentation shows. A major difference is there is no RDSS payload.
@Langley: I think we may refer the new MEO/IGSO satellites as kind of 'new design'. I don't know exactly how people name GPS-III versus GPS-IIF - it's roughly the same thing here.
You can consult the official
GPS Page where you get a detailed explanation of each generation, its official naming, capabilities, manufacturer, history, etc. And III will be a lot more different than IIF. IIF only adds a signal, III not only adds a signal on top of that, has a steerable antenna but introduces the CNAV-2 message. This adds bits to the nav data to increase precisions, enable more active satellites and add robustness. And I can read all that in the official page.
Do you want to compare that to the information available at the CAST site or at
http://en.beidou.gov.cn/?
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#77
by
Nighthawk
on 30 Jul, 2015 10:54
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I found in my collection 2 slides (sorry, I have forgot the source) which introduce the CAST MEO satellites. There are a lot of information (including mass) but unfortunately in Chinese.
These 2 slides are part of a CAST presentation dated May 2010 on navigation satellite technology which I attach.
The first slide describes a MEO satellite which reaches MEO using its own propulsion system (mass <2200 kg)
The second slide describes the case of a MEO satellite injected directly in MEO (mass < 1000kg)
Since M1-S and M2-S were injected directly in MEO I assume they belong to the second case.
Yes, I agree with you on that. But note that, Beidou-Phase-III I-1S is also based on a small platform (by CAS) and needs to be injected directly in IGSO (and it's even smaller!), which differs from what the 2010 CAST presentation shows. A major difference is there is no RDSS payload.
@Langley: I think we may refer the new MEO/IGSO satellites as kind of 'new design'. I don't know exactly how people name GPS-III versus GPS-IIF - it's roughly the same thing here.
You can consult the official GPS Page where you get a detailed explanation of each generation, its official naming, capabilities, manufacturer, history, etc. And III will be a lot more different than IIF. IIF only adds a signal, III not only adds a signal on top of that, has a steerable antenna but introduces the CNAV-2 message. This adds bits to the nav data to increase precisions, enable more active satellites and add robustness. And I can read all that in the official page.
Do you want to compare that to the information available at the CAST site or at http://en.beidou.gov.cn/?
Hi baldusi, thanks for the link, I visit it often. I was trying to explain, how can people name the Beidou-Phase-III satellites in general - a 'noval class' of satellites? or a 'modernized version' of satellites like the GPS-III? And of course, people don't know that because of the absence of official naming.
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#78
by
baldusi
on 30 Jul, 2015 17:11
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[...]
@Langley: I think we may refer the new MEO/IGSO satellites as kind of 'new design'. I don't know exactly how people name GPS-III versus GPS-IIF - it's roughly the same thing here.
You can consult the official GPS Page where you get a detailed explanation of each generation, its official naming, capabilities, manufacturer, history, etc. And III will be a lot more different than IIF. IIF only adds a signal, III not only adds a signal on top of that, has a steerable antenna but introduces the CNAV-2 message. This adds bits to the nav data to increase precisions, enable more active satellites and add robustness. And I can read all that in the official page.
Do you want to compare that to the information available at the CAST site or at http://en.beidou.gov.cn/?
Hi baldusi, thanks for the link, I visit it often. I was trying to explain, how can people name the Beidou-Phase-III satellites in general - a 'noval class' of satellites? or a 'modernized version' of satellites like the GPS-III? And of course, people don't know that because of the absence of official naming.
It's just that the Chinese are really frustrating. I like to write Wikipedia articles, and I can get the smallest minutae about the American, Russian and European satellites. How many clocks and types, clock stability specs, system bus, propulsion type, manufacturers number, name, production date, etc.
And for the Chinese I can't even get an official name! Only the launch numbers. It is ridiculous. I really, really but really want to be impressed with the Chinese technology prowess. But them hiding the information like that seems like they want to hide something. I'm really frakked off on the communication front with them.
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#79
by
Lewis007
on 30 Jul, 2015 17:50
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#80
by
beidou
on 30 Jul, 2015 19:44
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It's just that the Chinese are really frustrating...But them hiding the information like that seems like they want to hide something. I'm really frakked off on the communication front with them.
If you dislike the Chinese and what they are doing so much, just don't pay attention to and ignore them!
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#81
by
input~2
on 30 Jul, 2015 20:07
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#82
by
Langley
on 30 Jul, 2015 20:23
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More on names:
JSpOC/NORAD has decided to call the satellites BeiDou-3 M1 and M2:
BEIDOU-3 M1
1 40748U 15037A 15210.21958105 -.00000017 00000-0 00000+0 0 9997
2 40748 054.9770 077.1714 0118477 176.9851 357.5125 01.82960043 77
BEIDOU-3 M2
1 40749U 15037B 15210.13057922 -.00000017 00000-0 00000+0 0 9996
2 40749 054.9856 077.1634 0011546 344.4650 157.4299 01.86554538 73
Looks like M2 has settled into its orbital slot and M1 is still drifting to its.
-- Richard Langley
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#83
by
baldusi
on 31 Jul, 2015 04:52
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It's just that the Chinese are really frustrating...But them hiding the information like that seems like they want to hide something. I'm really frakked off on the communication front with them.
If you dislike the Chinese and what they are doing so much, just don't pay attention to and ignore them!
You deleted the part where I said that I admire and like to write about them. I've written or re-written every Wikipedia article about civilian Chinese rocket engines. I've re-written the Long March 1/D articles and I was trying to get individual articles about the Beidou satellites like I've done for the Uragan and I'm working on the Galileo. I even wanted to defend their deep space network station here in Argentina that was attacked for political reasons. But I just can't because the Chinese government simply won't make the information available. Not even in Chinese.
If you consider that when someone wants to be your fan you have to shush him away, then I'm really rooting for the wrong team here. And this is directly related to Beidou which has one of the correction stations here in Neuquén.
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#84
by
beidou
on 09 Aug, 2015 18:22
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Interestingly enough, a S-band signal will be validated on this satellite pair.
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#85
by
Liss
on 17 Aug, 2015 12:43
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Well, it is known that the four previous MEO satellites used to occupy slots A7, A8, B3, B4 (unfortunately M5 seems to be deorbited by now).
But do anybody know which pair went to which plane -- and hence, are M1-S and M-2S in slots B5 and B2, or A1 and A6, or somewhat else?
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#86
by
Langley
on 17 Aug, 2015 13:00
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"(unfortunately M5 seems to be deorbited by now)"
Although M5 has not been heard from by stations of the International GNSS Service for several months now, it has not been shifted to a graveyard orbit according to JSpOC/NORAD tracking:
BEIDOU M5
1 38774U 12050A 15227.45076495 -.00000002 00000-0 00000+0 0 9996
2 38774 054.7481 196.3631 0033559 176.7550 183.2246 01.86251408 19950
The orbital period (01.86251408) is close to the standard.
Later today, I'll post a plot of the orbital positions of the BeiDou MEO satellites so that you can see where the new ones are.
-- Richard Langley
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#87
by
Liss
on 17 Aug, 2015 13:08
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"(unfortunately M5 seems to be deorbited by now)"
Although M5 has not been heard from by stations of the International GNSS Service for several months now, it has not been shifted to a graveyard orbit according to JSpOC/NORAD tracking:
Richard, I was speaking of a low-scale deorbit as you may see from the image attached. Nevertheless, in six months M5 did shifted some 14° from its slot which seems to be significant, especially in the absense of the navigation signals.
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#88
by
Galactic Penguin SST
on 17 Aug, 2015 13:40
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Well, it is known that the four previous MEO satellites used to occupy slots A7, A8, B3, B4 (unfortunately M5 seems to be deorbited by now).
But do anybody know which pair went to which plane -- and hence, are M1-S and M-2S in slots B5 and B2, or A1 and A6, or somewhat else?
According to Chinese forum members using NORAD TLEs, they are now at slot A6 and A1 respectively.
In other news,
European observers have now picked up navigation signals from the two satellites. M1-S is on PRN34, M2-S on PRN33 (and I1-S is on PRN31).
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#89
by
Liss
on 17 Aug, 2015 15:53
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Thank you, Galactic Penguin. I figured out how to calculate these positions from times of equator crossings of the satellites.
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#90
by
Langley
on 18 Aug, 2015 02:47
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"Later today, I'll post a plot of the orbital positions of the BeiDou MEO satellites so that you can see where the new ones are."
See attached plot. Satellites coloured red are considered to be currently unheathly and unusable for navigation.
-- Richard Langley
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#91
by
Satori
on 18 Aug, 2015 08:15
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#92
by
beidou
on 18 Aug, 2015 11:31
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#93
by
Satori
on 18 Aug, 2015 11:39
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#94
by
beidou
on 18 Aug, 2015 18:50
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From Xinhua, Beidou satellites begin autonomous operation in space.
I don't this (autonomous operation) is true - it's far from complete.
The article is referring to the two satellites recently launched, not the entire navigation network.
I knew, it was just an experiment, not operation. Now You know how everything can be exaggerated in Chinese media reports.
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#95
by
input~2
on 28 Aug, 2015 14:46
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Even the 12 year lifetime wasn't known until a Chinese report came post launch (
