Author Topic: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.  (Read 96503 times)

Online QuantumG

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #380 on: 05/20/2014 10:58 pm »
Errr, as a vegetarian I can only confirm that you do NOT require animal protein or products for a healthy diet.

As a vegetarianian I can only confirm that you'd go great with caramelized onions.
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Offline high road

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #381 on: 05/21/2014 11:25 am »
Errr, as a vegetarian I can only confirm that you do NOT require animal protein or products for a healthy diet. That is just one of those urban myths. If it is any consolation, non meat products mimiking meat have come a long way, and by the time you'll eat your fungus cheese burger on Mars you won't be noting any difference. I'd miss the cows though, such nice animals, lovely eyes  ;)
Cheers,
Chris

Even though I don't include meat in every meal and enjoy the occasional veggie dish, I have never agreed with my vegetarian friends that 'you can't taste the difference'. Veggie food is at its best when it's NOT trying to imitate meat. Veggie, gluten-free and all other replacement meals should try to create new tastes, instead of imitating existing ones. Food grown in low gravity probably tastes different anyway.

Waterborne lifeforms might be less affected by Mars' low gravity. So at least for the staple food, we'd better use algae. Just not let evolution get out of hand. In the oceans, the difference between a plant and an animal isn't always clear. You might end up with a civil war between vegans and veggies over the food's civil rights.

Offline DARPA-86

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #382 on: 05/21/2014 12:24 pm »
Semi - Interesting tidbit; in these local climes the wild mushroom season is just coming to an end, in particular the "hunt" for morels, a sort of semi box like fungi that grows out to about 3-4 inches long on average.

In conversing with one of the local Emergency Room Doctors, trips to the ER pick up for gastric distress this time of year due to undercooked, or semi-cooked morels.  Apparently they contain hydrazine, and if you consume them raw or do not allow for enough time to cook thru the hydrazine is only partially released into the fiber of the morel iteself, and in turn into one's digestive tract after consumption.

There is obviously an economy of scale issue - but one wonders, how many morels to produce a sufficient quantinty of hydrazine for any ongoing necessary purpose at a future Mars site?

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #383 on: 05/21/2014 01:01 pm »
Semi - Interesting tidbit; in these local climes the wild mushroom season is just coming to an end, in particular the "hunt" for morels, a sort of semi box like fungi that grows out to about 3-4 inches long on average.

In conversing with one of the local Emergency Room Doctors, trips to the ER pick up for gastric distress this time of year due to undercooked, or semi-cooked morels.  Apparently they contain hydrazine, and if you consume them raw or do not allow for enough time to cook thru the hydrazine is only partially released into the fiber of the morel iteself, and in turn into one's digestive tract after consumption.

There is obviously an economy of scale issue - but one wonders, how many morels to produce a sufficient quantinty of hydrazine for any ongoing necessary purpose at a future Mars site?

Properly gene tailored, they could, in theory, be QUITE a source for hydrazine.  But then again, with a bit of gene tailoring, in theory, we could grow Solid Rocket Cores from trees, (I think John Varley did that in the book "Titan")  Unfortnately, I somehow doubt that the US foretry service would take too kindly to a grove of trees having the explosive capibilities of a Saturn V rocket in the Fire Season.  Nice to dream though...
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #384 on: 05/21/2014 01:29 pm »

Properly gene tailored, they could, in theory, be QUITE a source for hydrazine.  But then again, with a bit of gene tailoring, in theory, we could grow Solid Rocket Cores from trees, (I think John Varley did that in the book "Titan")  Unfortnately, I somehow doubt that the US foretry service would take too kindly to a grove of trees having the explosive capibilities of a Saturn V rocket in the Fire Season.  Nice to dream though...

I know a Larry Niven story had them. Trees with solid rocket tree trunks.

Offline high road

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #385 on: 05/22/2014 11:03 am »
Semi - Interesting tidbit; in these local climes the wild mushroom season is just coming to an end, in particular the "hunt" for morels, a sort of semi box like fungi that grows out to about 3-4 inches long on average.

In conversing with one of the local Emergency Room Doctors, trips to the ER pick up for gastric distress this time of year due to undercooked, or semi-cooked morels.  Apparently they contain hydrazine, and if you consume them raw or do not allow for enough time to cook thru the hydrazine is only partially released into the fiber of the morel iteself, and in turn into one's digestive tract after consumption.

There is obviously an economy of scale issue - but one wonders, how many morels to produce a sufficient quantinty of hydrazine for any ongoing necessary purpose at a future Mars site?

Properly gene tailored, they could, in theory, be QUITE a source for hydrazine.  But then again, with a bit of gene tailoring, in theory, we could grow Solid Rocket Cores from trees, (I think John Varley did that in the book "Titan")  Unfortnately, I somehow doubt that the US foretry service would take too kindly to a grove of trees having the explosive capibilities of a Saturn V rocket in the Fire Season.  Nice to dream though...

A future Mars site, where these trees would grow, doesn't have a fire season. Not unless we want to, that is. But picknicking in this kind of forest would be highly restricted.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #386 on: 05/23/2014 02:55 am »
Semi - Interesting tidbit; in these local climes the wild mushroom season is just coming to an end, in particular the "hunt" for morels, a sort of semi box like fungi that grows out to about 3-4 inches long on average.

In conversing with one of the local Emergency Room Doctors, trips to the ER pick up for gastric distress this time of year due to undercooked, or semi-cooked morels.  Apparently they contain hydrazine, and if you consume them raw or do not allow for enough time to cook thru the hydrazine is only partially released into the fiber of the morel iteself, and in turn into one's digestive tract after consumption.

There is obviously an economy of scale issue - but one wonders, how many morels to produce a sufficient quantinty of hydrazine for any ongoing necessary purpose at a future Mars site?

Properly gene tailored, they could, in theory, be QUITE a source for hydrazine.  But then again, with a bit of gene tailoring, in theory, we could grow Solid Rocket Cores from trees, (I think John Varley did that in the book "Titan")  Unfortnately, I somehow doubt that the US foretry service would take too kindly to a grove of trees having the explosive capibilities of a Saturn V rocket in the Fire Season.  Nice to dream though...

A future Mars site, where these trees would grow, doesn't have a fire season. Not unless we want to, that is. But picknicking in this kind of forest would be highly restricted.

One hot, dry summer season... boom!

Whoops!  There goes New Jersey...  They're off to outer space...
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Offline alexterrell

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #387 on: 05/23/2014 09:07 pm »
Errr, as a vegetarian I can only confirm that you do NOT require animal protein or products for a healthy diet. That is just one of those urban myths. If it is any consolation, non meat products mimiking meat have come a long way, and by the time you'll eat your fungus cheese burger on Mars you won't be noting any difference. I'd miss the cows though, such nice animals, lovely eyes  ;)
Cheers,
Chris

Are you on the crew? Personally, I'd disagree, but I'm sure you're right nutritionally.

My point was that 1kg of chicken or fish can be made more efficiently than 1kg of potato - not a point about taste.

My reference to yukky was basic algae, not potatoes. And Tomatoes seem very efficient at converting nutrient into vitamin and taste, if not calories.

Offline high road

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #388 on: 05/26/2014 08:10 am »
Semi - Interesting tidbit; in these local climes the wild mushroom season is just coming to an end, in particular the "hunt" for morels, a sort of semi box like fungi that grows out to about 3-4 inches long on average.

In conversing with one of the local Emergency Room Doctors, trips to the ER pick up for gastric distress this time of year due to undercooked, or semi-cooked morels.  Apparently they contain hydrazine, and if you consume them raw or do not allow for enough time to cook thru the hydrazine is only partially released into the fiber of the morel iteself, and in turn into one's digestive tract after consumption.

There is obviously an economy of scale issue - but one wonders, how many morels to produce a sufficient quantinty of hydrazine for any ongoing necessary purpose at a future Mars site?

Properly gene tailored, they could, in theory, be QUITE a source for hydrazine.  But then again, with a bit of gene tailoring, in theory, we could grow Solid Rocket Cores from trees, (I think John Varley did that in the book "Titan")  Unfortnately, I somehow doubt that the US foretry service would take too kindly to a grove of trees having the explosive capibilities of a Saturn V rocket in the Fire Season.  Nice to dream though...

A future Mars site, where these trees would grow, doesn't have a fire season. Not unless we want to, that is. But picknicking in this kind of forest would be highly restricted.

One hot, dry summer season... boom!

Whoops!  There goes New Jersey...  They're off to outer space...

You probably don't want your trees to take hundreds of years to grow in the cold, near vacuum, toxic soil with few nutrients. That means domed groves, so no dry summer unless somebody forgets to turn the sprinklers on every once and a while. That might be fun for the 4th of july celebrations, but probably a tad costly.

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #389 on: 05/26/2014 09:05 am »
That might be fun for the 4th of july celebrations, but probably a tad costly.

You're assuming there'll be 4 July celebrations then? :) Depends who the colonists are, I expect, and eventually they'll have their own 'national' holidays.

Offline high road

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #390 on: 05/26/2014 11:19 am »
I'm assuming there will be hollidays. 4th of july is just an example. They might celebrate 'first manned landing day', 'Martian independence day' (should've said that instead of 4th of july) 'end of dust storm season', 'the day the first leader died', and I expect quite the party on 'supply mission arrival eve'.

Offline Lar

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #391 on: 05/26/2014 01:47 pm »
I expect quite the party on 'supply mission arrival eve'.
I think the party will be on "supply mission landed safely day" because, don't count your chickens before they hatch, and all that.  But yes, there will be holidays, and that means that there will be a need for ISRU for frivolities.. alcohol will surely be made as soon as there are food crops, (that's human nature) but paper for party hats and confetti will surely be in demand too :)  Might not be a big market for fireworks though.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Offline guckyfan

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #392 on: 05/26/2014 02:17 pm »
Might not be a big market for fireworks though.

I expect the opposite. A standard firework will work a treat on Mars. :) It contains its own oxidiser. Just don't fire it at the plastic covered greenhouses.


Offline high road

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #393 on: 05/26/2014 02:27 pm »
That's why I specifically said 'eve'. Every day I mentioned was meant to sound ominous... leaders dying, celebrating when storms end means those things are nasty, gaining independence usually means war, 'first landing' means competition among the different settlements to claim that title, and 'eve' because people have a bad history in waiting for those chickens to hatch.

Should've added an ominous sound to my post :p

'Fireworks', now that's got to sound ominous in any space exploration related subject.

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #394 on: 05/27/2014 07:48 pm »

I expect the opposite. A standard firework will work a treat on Mars. :) It contains its own oxidiser. Just don't fire it at the plastic covered greenhouses.


Stop! That's not a firework! That's our return rocket!

Offline Lar

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #395 on: 05/27/2014 09:27 pm »

I expect the opposite. A standard firework will work a treat on Mars. :) It contains its own oxidiser. Just don't fire it at the plastic covered greenhouses.


Stop! That's not a firework! That's our return rocket!

Columbus and Cortez allegedly burned their boats. That doesn't seem like a good approach in this case :)
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Offline RanulfC

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Re: Mars ISRU for food crops and consumables.
« Reply #396 on: 05/28/2014 04:17 pm »
Columbus and Cortez allegedly burned their boats. That doesn't seem like a good approach in this case :)

Cortez burned his ships to give his men "incentive" to take on a population KNOWN to outnumber him by several thousand to one. (He also lied to his "recruits" telling them they were only going on a "raid" :) ) He also had a personal correspondence from the Pope saying "God" was on his side.

In general it can be said it was an "effective" tactic as everyone was now aware they had no say "home" unless they won every battle and totally over-threw the Empire they faced. How "applicable" that would be to a Mars colonization attempt... ???

On the other hand I'm sure there are probably many more historical similar situations where the outcome was much less sucessful than for Cortez...

Columbus on the other hand suffered from neither being a really good navigator (or mathmatician as he was convinced the world was a lot smaller than everyone knew it to be) nor having any real ability to communicate with the "natives" around him and ended up loseing one of his ships (The Santa Maria) by hitting a reef his "guides" were trying to warn him of but he choose to ignore.

Since Mars has no native species to over-awe, ignore, or conquer and exploit I suppose the first "holiday" on Mars might reasonably be associated with the "Day Charlie got drunk and climbed into the ERV and said, "Hey Y'all! Watch This" kind of rememberance celebration...

Randy
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