Author Topic: RD-170 engine variants?  (Read 22494 times)

Offline hkultala

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RD-170 engine variants?
« on: 08/31/2012 10:01 am »
I'm trying to gather understanding about different rd-170-based rockets engines. Here's what I've found so far..


All started with single-chamber RD-150 which was never used?


RD-170:

Then, RD-170 was the original "energija" engine with 4 chambers, 1-way swivel.

RD-171 was same for zenit, with 2-way swivel.

Then there are improved models.


RD-172:

RD-172 was supposed to be used in energija-2 and vulcan? but both got cancelled.
It has slightly more thrust/chamber than RD-170/RD-171?

RD-180 is based on that model?


RD-173:

RD-173 has "5% more thrust" than RD-170 but the 4-chamber model with 1-way swivel was not manufactured as there was no launch vehicle that would have used it. Differences to RD-172 quite small?

RD-191 is based on this model?

RD-171M(for zenit-3) is said to be based on RD-173 but all data about it's performance looks equal to RD-171? Is it capable of more but they are not using the full thrust on zenit?

And RD-151 is "downgraded" RD-191 for korean naro rocket , just using lower thrust setting?


RD-175:

And now they are developing RD-175, and it's sister models RD-181 and RD-193?

These should have considerable more thrust than earlier versions?


Also, are they planning to switch Angara from RD-191 to RD-193 when RD-193 is ready?


sources:

http://www.lpre.de/energomash/RD-170/index.htm
http://b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/Diverse/Energomash_RD-170/
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23160.135
« Last Edit: 08/31/2012 02:53 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline Stan Black

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Offline baldusi

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Re: rd-170 engine variants?
« Reply #2 on: 08/31/2012 02:46 pm »
Plus, the RD-170 did had two axis of swivel. Just that those axis were arranged different. I think that it rotated everything and swiveled the nozzles midway down. I do remember that the difference to the RD-171 was due to aerodynamic and stability differences between the booster and the core application.
Please remember that the RD-170/1/M have two gas generators. This makes it relatively "easy" to halve into the RD-180. The RD-190 has a smaller gas generator, so it shares less parts.
The RD-170/1/M have a chamber pressure of 250kg/cm². The RD-180 261.7kg/cm² and the RD-190 of 262.6kg/cm². So the the RD-180 and RD-190 have almost the same chamber pressure (which is higher than the Rd-170/1/M).

Online Chris Bergin

Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #3 on: 08/31/2012 02:53 pm »
Corrected the thread title from the very lazy "rd".
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Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #4 on: 08/31/2012 03:29 pm »

All started with single-chamber RD-150 which was never used?

This is was four-chamber engine for RLA-family.

RD-170:

Then, RD-170 was the original "energija" engine with 4 chambers, 1-way swivel.

RD-171 was same for zenit, with 2-way swivel.

Then there are improved models.


RD-172:

RD-172 was supposed to be used in energija-2 and vulcan? but both got cancelled.
It has slightly more thrust/chamber than RD-170/RD-171?

RD-180 is based on that model?


RD-173:

RD-173 has "5% more thrust" than RD-170 but the 4-chamber model with 1-way swivel was not manufactured as there was no launch vehicle that would have used it. Differences to RD-172 quite small?

RD-191 is based on this model?

RD-171M(for zenit-3) is said to be based on RD-173 but all data about it's performance looks equal to RD-171? Is it capable of more but they are not using the full thrust on zenit?

And RD-151 is "downgraded" RD-191 for korean naro rocket , just using lower thrust setting?


RD-175:

And now they are developing RD-175, and it's sister models RD-181 and RD-193?

These should have considerable more thrust than earlier versions?


Also, are they planning to switch Angara from RD-191 to RD-193 when RD-193 is ready?


sources:

http://www.lpre.de/energomash/RD-170/index.htm
http://b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/Diverse/Energomash_RD-170/
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23160.135

+ RD-174 - main engine for the first variant of Angara (Angara-26):
http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud%2029.htm

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #5 on: 08/31/2012 08:43 pm »
In his memoirs Boris Gubanov also mentions the RD-179 for Vulkan :

http://www.buran.ru/htm/38-3.htm

thrust : 860 t (sea-level) / 937 t (vacuum)
specific impulse : 308.5 (sea-level) / 336.2 (vacuum)

The thrust levels are higher than that of the RD-172 (14D20), the other engine known to have been studied for Vulkan. However, the RD-179 engine is not mentioned by any other source that I'm aware of, not even in Energomash publications, so Gubanov may well have made a mistake. 

Offline Downix

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #6 on: 08/31/2012 08:55 pm »
The RD-151 was used for the test launches of the Angara first stage, part of the South Korean Naro-1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naro-1
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Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #7 on: 08/31/2012 09:53 pm »
With regard to the RD-173, the 2004 Energomash history ("Put' v raketnoi tekhnike") says work on it began in the second half of the 1980s as the RD-170 and RD-171 went into serial production. Test firings were performed between 1990 and 1996. The idea was to fly the engine on the Sea Launch Zenit, but in 1997 work was halted "due to a lack of financing". Subsequently, 14 RD-170 engines were 'cannibalized' from mothballed Energiya strap-on boosters and sent back to the factory to be modified as RD-171 engines for Sea Launch. This work was finished by 2002. However, because that batch would last Sea Launch only a couple of years, it was decided to resume work on the RD-173, which then became the RD-171M (lighter than the RD-171, but without the uprated thrust of the RD-173).

Offline Salo

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #8 on: 10/27/2012 06:26 pm »
RD-175:

And now they are developing RD-175, and it's sister models RD-181 and RD-193?

These should have considerable more thrust than earlier versions?


Also, are they planning to switch Angara from RD-191 to RD-193 when RD-193 is ready?
RD-193 developing for Soyuz-2-1V.

Offline Salo

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #9 on: 10/27/2012 06:41 pm »

Offline Salo

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #10 on: 10/27/2012 07:34 pm »
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_02_22/66647775/
Quote
Last year the company’s engineers completed the development of RD-191 engine and now they are working on two new engines with a thrust of up to 1,000 tons. The first one is RD-193 – a single-chamber engine fueled by kerosene and liquid oxygen. It will be used in light class carrier rockets which are to deliver cargos of up to 5 tons to the orbit, the company’s Deputy General director Vladimir Chvanov said in an interview with the “Voice of Russia”.

"This type of engines is in great demand. By now we have finished its rough design and are assembling a test installation to test the key solutions. As for RD-175 it combines universal technologies of the most recent developments of Energomash. This engine has a thrust of 1,000 tons."

The engine thrust defines the maximum weight the rocket can carry to the orbit.  If 3-5 rocket packs are equipped with such an engine the working load can be increased up to almost 100 tons.

Offline Salo

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #11 on: 10/27/2012 07:45 pm »
NPO Energomash made a test of engine RD-191 on 16th october, according to NK. RD-191 could evolve into engine RD-193 for launcher Soyuz-2.1v, or to RD-181 engine for foreign use.

Quote
19.10.2012 / 14:29   В ОАО «НПО Энергомаш» проведено очередное огневое испытание ЖРД


      16 октября на научно-испытательном комплексе ОАО «НПО Энергомаш» без съёма со стенда проведено пятое огневое испытание экспериментального кислородно-керосинового ЖРД для первых ступеней ракет-носителей типа российской ракеты «Союз» и зарубежных ракет-носителей.
      Двигатель, оснащённый большим количеством дополнительных измерений вибро-напряжённого состояния, пульсации и температур, в ходе всех пяти испытаний отработал 678 секунд.
      Проведенным испытанием успешно завершён первый этап экспериментального подтверждения работоспособности новой модификации кислородно-керосинового ЖРД, создаваемого на основе технологий и опыта разработки двигателя РД191. Новый двигатель, имеющий тягу 200 тс у Земли, отличается от базовой конструкции введением ряда сварных соединений (камеры со статором турбины, смесительной головки газогенератора с корпусом), неподвижным креплением двигателя к ракете или через карданное соединение для качания целиком двигателя для управления вектором тяги в зависимости от конструкции ракеты.
      В отличие от РД191 новый двигатель короче по высоте на 760 мм и легче почти на 300 кг.
      Предполагается, что экспериментальный двигатель явится основой двигателя РД193 для I ступени ракеты «Союз-2.1в» лёгкого класса и других возможных модификации РН «Союз» и двигателя РД181 для I ступеней зарубежных ракет-носителей.
      Кроме того, на экспериментальном двигателе по программе, согласованной с ГНЦ ФГУП «Исследовательский центр имени М.В.Келдыша», решалась задача проверки работоспособности конструкции на режимах, соответствующих требованиям к системе МРКС (многоразовая ракетно-космическая система), разрабатываемой в рамках Федеральной космической программы.
      В настоящее время ведётся анализ результатов испытаний. Двигатель будет разобран и тщательно продефектирован. По результатам дефектации будет принято решение о возможности дальнейших испытаний и корректив в конструкторских и технологических решениях, передают пресс-службы Роскосмоса и ОАО «НПО Энергомаш».

Offline Salo

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #12 on: 10/27/2012 07:51 pm »
From an article about the Aerospace Congress in Moscow in the October issue of the "Novosti Kosmonavtiki":
Quote
Второй доклад "Разработка самого мощного в мире жидкостного кислородно-керосинового двигателя с тягой 1000 тс" повествует о попытке создания на базе РД-171 двигателя существенно большей тяги за счёт изменения схемы подачи топлива (переход от одного турбонасосного агрегата к двум работающим параллельно).  Показана принципиальная возможность дальнейшего форсирования ЖРД при умеренном повышении его рабочих параметров.
Google translate:
"The second report, "Developing world's most powerful liquid oxygen-kerosene engine with a thrust of 1000 tf" tells the story of trying to create on the basis of the RD-171 engine significantly more power due to changes in the fuel circuit (the transition from one to two turbopump unit working in parallel) . The principal possibility of further boost rocket engine with a moderate increase in its operating parameters."
« Last Edit: 10/27/2012 08:03 pm by Salo »

Offline CardBoardBoxProcessor

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #13 on: 08/29/2013 04:32 pm »
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I noticed the RD-175 switches to two turbopumps in place of one. Any idea as to why they did this or how it works to increase thrust? Thanks.

Also, thanks for those images
« Last Edit: 08/29/2013 04:33 pm by CardBoardBoxProcessor »

Offline baldusi

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #14 on: 08/29/2013 06:35 pm »
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I noticed the RD-175 switches to two turbopumps in place of one. Any idea as to why they did this or how it works to increase thrust? Thanks.

Also, thanks for those images
I wonder the same. They could have, basically two 500tnf engines, which I would find strange, or they could have a fuel TP and an oxidizer TP. They currently have a single turbine moving a two stage fuel pump and a single stage oxidizer pump. Having different pumps allows to use different speeds for each different fluid, which might allow for more power and/or smaller/lighter turbines.
Both turbines would use the oxidizer-rich output of the preburner, I assume. Look into the RS-25D, which also has dual turbines (even though it's a fuel rich H2/LOX engine).

Offline Lars_J

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #15 on: 08/29/2013 07:03 pm »
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I noticed the RD-175 switches to two turbopumps in place of one. Any idea as to why they did this or how it works to increase thrust? Thanks.

Perhaps to increase commonality with RD-180? Is it using just two RD-180 turbopumps?

Offline baldusi

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #16 on: 08/29/2013 07:18 pm »
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I noticed the RD-175 switches to two turbopumps in place of one. Any idea as to why they did this or how it works to increase thrust? Thanks.

Perhaps to increase commonality with RD-180? Is it using just two RD-180 turbopumps?
RD-175 is the proposed new engine that goes from 740tnf to 1000tnf. Using dual RD-180 TP would be just like the current RD-171M, but with the same risk level of using dual RD-180. I simply see no point.
Please note that the RD-170/1/1M have always had dual parallel preburners, though. That's why doing the RD-180 was so "easy" (they ended up changing quite a bit more).
But this was just NPO Energomash trying to pitch some business. Now that the RD-191 project ended, and since production is outsourced to Polyot, they only have the RD AMROSS and Sea Launch contracts. And both are money losers!
Last year they proposed three engines to get development money. The RD-175, which they pitched for an Energia-KV (but tried to get someone to use on an SLS booster), the RD-180V, which was pitched for Rus-M, and the RD-193, to replace the NK-33 on the Soyuz-2.1v (and OSc was very interested). Upto now, I only know that they did some extra work on their "human rated" RD-180 for the Commercial Crew Atlas V, and I ignore if the RD-193 was company money or received some money from outside sources.

Offline CardBoardBoxProcessor

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #17 on: 08/30/2013 04:05 pm »
Sorry to bring this old thread up but I noticed the RD-175 switches to two turbopumps in place of one. Any idea as to why they did this or how it works to increase thrust? Thanks.

Also, thanks for those images
I wonder the same. They could have, basically two 500tnf engines, which I would find strange, or they could have a fuel TP and an oxidizer TP. They currently have a single turbine moving a two stage fuel pump and a single stage oxidizer pump. Having different pumps allows to use different speeds for each different fluid, which might allow for more power and/or smaller/lighter turbines.
Both turbines would use the oxidizer-rich output of the preburner, I assume. Look into the RS-25D, which also has dual turbines (even though it's a fuel rich H2/LOX engine).

This is unlikely. based off the pictures it appears both are set up to pump Fuel and LOX.  It is possible there is a single central pre-burner though. I cannot see.

the RS-25D has two pre burners because of efficiency and different fuel and LOX densities.  same reason J-2 has two turbines. but as we saw with the RD-0120 that is not a requirement for LH2 engines.
« Last Edit: 08/30/2013 04:07 pm by CardBoardBoxProcessor »

Offline Prof68

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #18 on: 09/02/2013 06:45 am »
But this was just NPO Energomash trying to pitch some business. Now that the RD-191 project ended, and since production is outsourced to Polyot, they only have the RD AMROSS and Sea Launch contracts. And both are money losers!
1. Outsourcing of RD-191 production to Polyot currently is delayed. In the at least next 5 years this engine will be produced only on NPO Energomash.
In the last interview Lopota said that
a) requirements for production numbers for RD-191 are lowered
b) NPO Energomash update its facilities and increase its production capabilities
therefore now NPO Energomash could itself produce necessary quantity of RD-191.

2. Production of RD-180 for RD AMROSS currently is economically viable. Price was seriously increased in 2011.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2013 06:46 am by Prof68 »

Offline baldusi

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Re: RD-170 engine variants?
« Reply #19 on: 09/02/2013 01:13 pm »
The 2011 price increase was the order of a further 30 engines, right? Does that renegotiation meant that the 40 engines that are still to be delivered of the original 100 (51+ exercised option of 50) include the price increase, or is only for the additional 30? I guess it should have meant from 2011 onwards, but a confirmation would be greatly appreciated.
The RD-191 issue does changes things a bit. I thought that Polyot had had its thrust chambers certified. But I know there had been rumors of unacceptable quality. The most interesting part is the reduced quantities required. This is because Proton will fly longer, because of Soyuz at ELS, because of Soyuz-2.1v, international competition or a mixture of all?
What I would find interesting in the Soyuz-2.1v case, is that it might have taken a few Angara 1.2 payloads. And given the new NPO Energomash production capabilities, it would probably makes a lot of sense to replace the NK-33 with the RD-193. Which could mean that NPO Energomash in a single move would have reduced the number of RD-191 required to below what makes sense for Polyot AND got the extra production of the RD-193. Wild speculation, would any of the most informed on the Russian industry care to comment?

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