The CCiCAP Award (PRE- and Post-AWARD DISCUSSION) Thread

[Longhorn John]

Are you confirming it Chris? Would be more comfortable if you were.

[joek]

NBC's broken it ahead of the announcement:

Are you really stating that "NBC's broken it...", or should that be "NBC claims..."?

[Robotbeat]

ATK is getting ready to fly something from the Cape in 2014 (or so). SRB-based. I'd bet it has a solid upper stage or two... I think it's an Athena III, but they will surely call it "Liberty." At least, that's consistent with what has come out of ATK so far and some of the unreliable rumors flying around.

[simonbp]

Yep, Liberty would have had the best payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts can't just get past their ATK hate.

The largest payload by having the most expensive rocket, which probably didn't help them one bit. Neither did having a much more unproven rocket compared to Atlas V or even Falcon 9.

I don't really understand why they didn't just propose a 3 or 4-seg first stage just big enough to launch their crew vehicle. It would still have enough thrust to launch the Ariane core, but stage slow enough to allow easy recovery.

[Chris Bergin]

Are you confirming it Chris? Would be more comfortable if you were.

You'd be more comfortable with me, some English Shuttle Hugger, than you are with Sir Alan of Boyle and the most seasoned space flight reporter out there.  Ok, that gave me a laugh!

It'll be good info, but - as I've said before - just going to report this one via the official announcement.

I'm best sticking to breaking development news on hardware...

[Robotbeat]

If true, HUGELY happy ATK didn't get the award, that's my main statement.

Let's make it happen! The ISS needs this capability

I don't know why anyone would say that. All of them brought something to the table

Yep, Liberty would have had the largest payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts just can't get past their ATK hate.

If all you care about is payload. And don't care about price, design maturity, experience, honesty, or domestic capability.

The lack of award will cause ATK to play more to their strengths, which is good for everyone, IMHO. ATK's Athena III (which I think was their COTS proposal?) is a much more competitive proposal, IMHO, and would improve on price, design maturity, experience, honesty, AND domestic capability.

[Chris Bergin]

NBC's broken it ahead of the announcement:

Are you really stating that "NBC's broken it...", or should that be "NBC claims..."?

Technically it's a claim, prior to the official announcement, but they are certainly breaking it.

"NASA is to make the official announcement of the winning commercial teams on Friday morning — but NBC News' Cape Canaveral correspondent, Jay Barbree, received word from two sources who were informed of the decision in advance, on condition of anonymity."

[Alpha Control]

SpaceX, Boeing = full award. SNC Dream Chaser - partial award.

For the record, the NBC article doesn't say which company got the partial award. But the WSJ article does:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443545504577565532898170476.html

Well, actually the NBC article does seem to infer that - but by referring to the WSJ article.  It mentions 2 companies getting the bulk, with 1 company getting a smaller award. The NBCnews Cosmic Log piece says:

"The Wall Street Journal, meanwhile, quoted industry sources as saying that Boeing and SpaceX were expected to share the bulk of NASA's CCiCap money, and that Sierra Nevada seemed likely to emerge with a smaller award."

[Go4TLI]

If true, HUGELY happy ATK didn't get the award, that's my main statement.

Let's make it happen! The ISS needs this capability

I don't know why anyone would say that. All of them brought something to the table

Yep, Liberty would have had the largest payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts just can't get past their ATK hate.

If all you care about is payload. And don't care about price, design maturity, experience, honesty, or domestic capability.

The lack of award will cause ATK to play more to their strengths, which is good for everyone, IMHO.

You are not qualified to say any of that.  So do everyone a favor, you and everyone else, let's not turn this into yet another internet pontification of why ATK sucks.

[Downix]

Reminds me of how everyone was gung-ho that Atlantis was going to Ohio just before the announcements.

[Nomadd]

 NASA obviously was just waiting for the results of the NSF poll.

[marsavian]

If true, HUGELY happy ATK didn't get the award, that's my main statement.

Let's make it happen! The ISS needs this capability

I don't know why anyone would say that. All of them brought something to the table

Yep, Liberty would have had the largest payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts just can't get past their ATK hate.

If all you care about is payload. And don't care about price, design maturity, experience, honesty, or domestic capability.

The lack of award will cause ATK to play more to their strengths, which is good for everyone, IMHO. ATK's Athena III (which I think was their COTS proposal?) is a much more competitive proposal, IMHO, and would improve on price, design maturity, experience, honesty, AND domestic capability.

Liberty could have delivered combined crew AND significant cargo cheaper because a 2nd rocket wouldn't have needed to be flown for cargo. SpaceX was quoting $140m for just delivering crew which is not exactly cheap.

[QuantumG]

http://www.newspacejournal.com/2012/08/02/for-the-ccicap-losers-whats-next/

[majormajor42]

Fitting that Jay heard it first... Karma?

He didn't hear it first, he just had the least scruples about going to press with unconfirmed rumors.

A source can be a good source of real information. What makes you think his KSC source is just providing Jay with unconfirmed rumors? They are only unconfirmed rumors to us because we don't know who his sources are. Comes down to if you trust him, disagreeing with his opinions or not.

I'm not normally one for scoops however. I don't necessarily think the reporter who gets the scoop is the best reporter. The more interesting investigative story will be the one that explains how and why these choices were made and who, inside the various organizations, may have tried for a different outcome.

[yg1968]

If true, HUGELY happy ATK didn't get the award, that's my main statement.

Let's make it happen! The ISS needs this capability

I don't know why anyone would say that. All of them brought something to the table

Yep, Liberty would have had the largest payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts just can't get past their ATK hate.

If all you care about is payload. And don't care about price, design maturity, experience, honesty, or domestic capability.

The lack of award will cause ATK to play more to their strengths, which is good for everyone, IMHO. ATK's Athena III (which I think was their COTS proposal?) is a much more competitive proposal, IMHO, and would improve on price, design maturity, experience, honesty, AND domestic capability.

Liberty could have delivered combined crew AND significant cargo cheaper because a 2nd rocket wouldn't have needed to be flown for cargo. SpaceX was quoting $140m for just delivering crew which is not exactly cheap.

You would have to know how much ATK would have charged for crew and cargo before claiming that they would be cheaper. 

[Jim]

If true, HUGELY happy ATK didn't get the award, that's my main statement.

Let's make it happen! The ISS needs this capability

I don't know why anyone would say that. All of them brought something to the table

Yep, Liberty would have had the largest payload for a man rated vehicle but the majority of enthusiasts just can't get past their ATK hate.

If all you care about is payload. And don't care about price, design maturity, experience, honesty, or domestic capability.

The lack of award will cause ATK to play more to their strengths, which is good for everyone, IMHO. ATK's Athena III (which I think was their COTS proposal?) is a much more competitive proposal, IMHO, and would improve on price, design maturity, experience, honesty, AND domestic capability.

Liberty could have delivered combined crew AND significant cargo cheaper because a 2nd rocket wouldn't have needed to be flown for cargo. SpaceX was quoting $140m for just delivering crew which is not exactly cheap.

Wrong.

The cargo capability was not a requirement and therefore not a consideration.

You can't get past your ASTC love and that is why you are backing this proposal

[Chris Bergin]

Need to get some sleep after less than three hours last night.

So you all better behave on here!

[vt_hokie]

Good news!  I still kind of wonder about the implications of the "2.5" decision.  Any thoughts on this concern that I posted earlier today?

I sure hope DC gets a piece of the pie!  But regardless of the winners, when I heard about the "2.5 providers" thing my first thought was great, a surefire way to waste more taxpayer funding on another half-hearted project that ultimately leads to nothing.  I would certainly hope that the program is structured in such a way that the "half funded" effort isn't merely a dead-end.

[marsavian]

The Space Shuttle made a good long term career of bringing up crew and a few mT of cargo in one go, Liberty could have been a very good safer replacement but now the only choices will be either crew or cargo which will be ultimately limiting for both NASA and the commercial space industry but hey rejoice 'evil' ATK didn't win so that's ok then lol.  Short-sighted.

[SolSystem]

A source told me the WSJ has it wrong. Boeing and Sierra Nevada get full funding and SpaceX 1/2.