Author Topic: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)  (Read 237972 times)

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #40 on: 07/25/2012 04:29 am »
Interesting article on Musk online. What caught my eye was a used Dragon and a new Dragon, looking about ready to go. Has the shape changed? Could this be a prototype of Dragon 2, with SuperDracos?


Article link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-day-in-the-life-of-the-tesla-and-spacex-ceo-2012-7?op=1
Are you sure that's not the mock-up? The new mock-up indeed has spots for the SuperDracos. If that is the next Dragon for launch (i.e. for CRS-1), then SpaceX has been making some very significant strides without letting us know. (Previous information pointed to the next Dragon for CRS-1 and probably CRS-2 being basically the same as the COTS 2+ Dragon.)

I'm betting it's the mock-up.
Mock-up seems likely. Note the US flag, which to me implies crewed capsule. Looks cool!
Looks cooler from this angle. A bunch of noses. And a monocle. ;)

Nice. The fairings give Dragon a lot more character.

I guess I must have missed the discussion in another thread, because no one here is pointing out that this photo suggests the answer to the question of where the Super Dracos go.

I don't recall previously seeing any confirmation they'll fire at an angle from the sides, as opposed to through blow-out panels in the heatshield, and I know I've never seen an illustration of bump-out fairings.

There have been loads of pictures of that mockup circulating for the past two months, with animations before.

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #41 on: 07/25/2012 11:34 am »
Is there anything similar to be aware of regarding the Merlin 1C Vacuum?

Again, the thrust and Isp should best be taken from the COTS 1 press kit instead of the web site or F9 User Guide.

Offline dwightlooi

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #42 on: 07/25/2012 11:40 am »
NASA has its own standards on what it wants in a man-rated vehicle and spacecraft. We can argue about whether those standards are too stringent and too bureaucratic, or too lax and hasn't sufficiently prevented loss of crew. That's not the question here.

The question is "Can SpaceX fly humans -- SpaceX employees, contractors or customers -- on a Dragon Spacecraft, before the vehicle is deemed acceptable for humans by NASA."

In otherwords, does NASA have a monopoly on manned spaceflights launching from US soil and the authority to decide what flies and what must not, even when NASA astronauts are not in the picture.

This is an interesting question because given NASA's requirement on successful launches by a LV and their lengthy acceptance process, there is very little chance that a manned dragon will fly in the 2014 time frame. And logging manned flights before manned NASA flights may go a long way toward expediting the acceptance of the dragon as a human carrying vehicle. Also, there can be interested parties for manned flights to LEO that are outside of NASA missions to the ISS.
« Last Edit: 07/25/2012 11:42 am by dwightlooi »

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #43 on: 07/25/2012 12:20 pm »
No, this has been stated on many threads.  The FAA is responsible for the general public wrt to spaceflight.

This did not necessitate a separate thread.  There is no discussion
« Last Edit: 07/25/2012 12:21 pm by Jim »

Offline sdsds

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #44 on: 07/25/2012 12:25 pm »
The FAA Office of Commercial Space Transportation website:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/
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Offline docmordrid

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« Last Edit: 07/25/2012 04:17 pm by docmordrid »
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Offline DaveH62

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #46 on: 07/25/2012 05:12 pm »
NASA has its own standards on what it wants in a man-rated vehicle and spacecraft. We can argue about whether those standards are too stringent and too bureaucratic, or too lax and hasn't sufficiently prevented loss of crew. That's not the question here.

The question is "Can SpaceX fly humans -- SpaceX employees, contractors or customers -- on a Dragon Spacecraft, before the vehicle is deemed acceptable for humans by NASA."

In otherwords, does NASA have a monopoly on manned spaceflights launching from US soil and the authority to decide what flies and what must not, even when NASA astronauts are not in the picture.

This is an interesting question because given NASA's requirement on successful launches by a LV and their lengthy acceptance process, there is very little chance that a manned dragon will fly in the 2014 time frame. And logging manned flights before manned NASA flights may go a long way toward expediting the acceptance of the dragon as a human carrying vehicle. Also, there can be interested parties for manned flights to LEO that are outside of NASA missions to the ISS.
The question was asked at one of the post docking press conferences. Someone on the NASA panel said their standards are different than what others would interpret as minimum safety standards, and they would not be the arbiter of all private efforts, i.e. they won't get in the way.

I would expect SpaceX, or any competitors would want to work with NASA to meet the spirit of all guidelines. Having a loss of life outside of a NASA crew program will bring very unwanted political oversight. Having NASA collaborating through the process will also give more weight to any pre-NASA crewed flight results.

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #47 on: 07/26/2012 02:38 am »
SpaceX updated their Falcon 9 web page with the new specs for Merlin 1D , the LEO and GTO up mass.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
When was that page updated?

Does anyone know when they will have a new PDF out on the F9 v1.1?

Offline neilh

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #48 on: 07/26/2012 07:41 am »
Elon Musk will be delivering the keynote address at the Mars Society convention August 4th in Pasadena.  If any of you can make it, a summary of comments posted here (or video if those are allowed) would be much appreciated.  I hope it's the much awaited unveiling of the SpaceX Mars architecture. 

Count on me.

Just purchased tickets for me and my girlfriend, yay.
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Offline Nathan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #49 on: 07/26/2012 12:11 pm »
SpaceX updated their Falcon 9 web page with the new specs for Merlin 1D , the LEO and GTO up mass.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
When was that page updated?

Does anyone know when they will have a new PDF out on the F9 v1.1?
They have also updated the manifest
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Online Comga

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #50 on: 07/26/2012 03:22 pm »
SpaceX updated their Falcon 9 web page with the new specs for Merlin 1D , the LEO and GTO up mass.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
When was that page updated?

Does anyone know when they will have a new PDF out on the F9 v1.1?

They have also updated the manifest

Curious
They still have Bigelow on the manifest for 2015 but have not added Jason-3 which is under contract for a December 2014 launch.  And they are still listing the "Vehicle Arrival at Launch Site" dates, as if that is what people want to know.  Does anyone else share my preference for launch dates, even if they have to be NET?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #51 on: 07/26/2012 03:29 pm »
SpaceX updated their Falcon 9 web page with the new specs for Merlin 1D , the LEO and GTO up mass.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
When was that page updated?

Does anyone know when they will have a new PDF out on the F9 v1.1?

They have also updated the manifest

Curious
They still have Bigelow on the manifest for 2015 but have not added Jason-3 which is under contract for a December 2014 launch.  And they are still listing the "Vehicle Arrival at Launch Site" dates, as if that is what people want to know.  Does anyone else share my preference for launch dates, even if they have to be NET?


they sure are way behind on the Udates page.  The July 17, 2012 has May 2012 updates in it.




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Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #52 on: 07/26/2012 05:01 pm »
The FH for Intelsat has been added to the manifest for 2015.

Offline MP99

SpaceX updated their Falcon 9 web page with the new specs for Merlin 1D , the LEO and GTO up mass.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
When was that page updated?

Does anyone know when they will have a new PDF out on the F9 v1.1?

They have also updated the manifest

Curious
They still have Bigelow on the manifest for 2015 but have not added Jason-3 which is under contract for a December 2014 launch.  And they are still listing the "Vehicle Arrival at Launch Site" dates, as if that is what people want to know.  Does anyone else share my preference for launch dates, even if they have to be NET?

Gwynne Shotwell recently stated 7xF9 & 1xFH launched in 2013.

I guess if it includes MDA, 1xOrbcomm, FH demo, and all the 2013 items (or most of the 2013 and multiple Orbcomm) that would cover it.

cheers, Martin

Offline baldusi

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #54 on: 07/26/2012 05:34 pm »
Let's see. That means eight flights.
VAFB:
1) MDA.
2) Falcon Heavy Demo.

CCAFs:
3) CRS-2 (depends on 2012).
4) CRS-3.
5) CRS-4.
6) SES
7) Thaicom
8) ORBCOMM

I think they will do MDA, CRS-2 to 5, and may be Thaicom or SES. For a one launch from VAFB and four launches from CCAF.  That's a total of five launches. I'm feeling optimist today.

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #55 on: 07/26/2012 06:26 pm »
They just showed a video at NewSpace 2012 showing Dragon landing in the desert under parachutes using SuperDracos just for the last few seconds.

Online Comga

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #56 on: 07/26/2012 06:48 pm »
They just showed a video at NewSpace 2012 showing Dragon landing in the desert under parachutes using SuperDracos just for the last few seconds.

Like a Soyuz landing? 
This makes sense as a step in the progression to the long range goal of fully powered landings.

Did you see the video from the last Soyuz landing?  (See video in http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29301.msg924410#msg924410 at ~11:38 ) Their braking rockets fire for a fraction of a second.  I wonder if your "few seconds" duration represents a significant difference.

PS Could you tell from the video how many Super-Dracos were firing?

edit to add link to Soyuz landing video and PS
« Last Edit: 07/26/2012 06:56 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #57 on: 07/26/2012 06:53 pm »
The video showed SDs igniting for a couple of seconds, first to rotate Dragon upright from a sideways, wind driven ride and then lower it for a touchdown. Not completely like Soyuz where the rockets fire for a fraction of a second.

Offline Idiomatic

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #58 on: 07/26/2012 06:57 pm »
They just showed a video at NewSpace 2012 showing Dragon landing in the desert under parachutes using SuperDracos just for the last few seconds.

To be clear, you mean CG of course.

Online Comga

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 6)
« Reply #59 on: 07/26/2012 07:00 pm »
The video showed SDs igniting for a couple of seconds, first to rotate Dragon upright from a sideways, wind driven ride and then lower it for a touchdown. Not completely like Soyuz where the rockets fire for a fraction of a second.

Did the (CGI) Dragon settle on legs or on the heat shield?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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