SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - Jason 3 - SLC-4E Vandenberg - Jan 17, 2016 - DISCUSSION

[gadgetmind]

That's another huge advantage of landing these stages, even if the odd RUD causes a degree of embarrassment: you get to see these minor issues, which could later on bite you on the backside, and fix them.

Landing stages will not only reduce costs but increase reliability.

[larkin]

That's another huge advantage of landing these stages, even if the odd RUD causes a degree of embarrassment: you get to see these minor issues, which could later on bite you on the backside, and fix them.

Landing stages will not only reduce costs but increase reliability.

Right, the key thing here is stressing stages beyond normal use so they see real failure modes instead of guessing at edge cases and implementing unnecessary improvements. If they determine ice to be the cause then perhaps they will perform more modeling of condensation and ice build up in the future.

[RDoc]

WRT Elon's suggestion that it was an icing problem caused by foggy conditions at lift off, there have been some questions since the latching mechanism is outside the fuel tank which isn't chilled in the F9 1.1.

I wonder if what might have happened was the air around the oxygen tank section of the stage was chilled well below freezing, and due to convection, fell down the side of the stage. It's pretty easy to believe the air would have been well below freezing when it got to the bottom of the stage and would have condensed and frozen the moisture from the fog onto the latch mechanism. Once frozen, the ice could have been protected on the way up by the leg itself, then frozen even harder in the upper atmosphere.

I'm a bit surprised this wasn't allowed for during the design phase, but I don't see how that phenomenon would have any consequences in a normal non-reuse scenario. Florida may be warm enough that it hasn't occurred on any of the earlier flights.

[meekGee]

SpaceX rocket landings are just like in the sci-fi movies and TV from the 50s and 60s, (excluding Startrek) and nothing like sci-fi movies and TV since.

Elon Musk has taken America back....


....to the 60s space rockets I imagined.

What's a 30 year detour in the grand scheme of things?

[HMXHMX]

SpaceX rocket landings are just like in the sci-fi movies and TV from the 50s and 60s, (excluding Startrek) and nothing like sci-fi movies and TV since.

Elon Musk has taken America back....


....to the 60s space rockets I imagined.

What's a 30 year detour in the grand scheme of things?

Thirty?  Fifty! 

[spacetraveler]

I expected better BBC....

That makes it sound like a failure

It sounds like an accurate description of the events to me. It did explode after it delivered the satellite.

Sure it did but 99% of the none space audience will assume SpaceX have failed big time here. They won't know this was an experimental part of a mission that went 100% successfully. 

That doesn't matter. The only thing that matters for their future is the perception among customers or potential customers, who are intelligent enough to know what this was.

[nadreck]

That doesn't matter. The only thing that matters for their future is the perception among customers or potential customers, who are intelligent enough to know what this was.

And for them and the whole future of space exploitation how the competition perceives it.

[CorvusCorax]

What's a 30 year detour in the grand scheme of things?

Giving my generation a chance to join in on the fun!

Hmm, someone must have gone back in time and made sure the shuttle happened

[Star One]

I expected better BBC....

That makes it sound like a failure

I'm OK with it as long as they use a similar headline for every rocket that isn't returned intact. Maybe the bad press will get the other launch providers off their butts.

Again I could find no article with that headline on the BBC website.

It has since been removed.

Was that the US or UK site?

[meekGee]

SpaceX rocket landings are just like in the sci-fi movies and TV from the 50s and 60s, (excluding Startrek) and nothing like sci-fi movies and TV since.

Elon Musk has taken America back....


....to the 60s space rockets I imagined.

What's a 30 year detour in the grand scheme of things?

Thirty?  Fifty! 

I'm figuring supposed after Apollo, the next step would have been a VTVL infrastructure system for interplanetary colonization.

Development would have started ~1970?

Instead we have development starting 2000, but most of it was a re-do just to get back to where NASA was in the 60s...  So lets call it 2010.

Ok then, 40 years.

I was born 1967.  I would have been hitting college just as things were heating up...

[Comga]

I may start a poll, and am soliciting help on making a complete list.  It would be titled "I was wrong" and will read

"I posted that SpaceX needs:

1   A bigger barge *
2   A more stable barge *
3   A semisubmersible barge *
4   A seabed anchored barge *
5   A barge with a self-leveling surface *
6   A slower approach *
7   A more even approach *
8   A calmer sea state *
9   A radar altimeter *
10 More radar altimeters *
11 A hydraulic leg deployment *
12 A shock absorbing leg design * #
13 A set of heaters for the legs * #
14 Arresting wires *
15 Wheels under the legs * #
16 Brakes for wheels under the legs *
17 A barge transmitter protected from the rocket plume on descent *
18 A barge barge transmitter that points at a satellite not behind the rocket plume *
19 To turn off the FTS before landing # *
20 To stop hiding their failures *
21 A Chuck-E-Cheese ball pit *   (Thanks Tuts36!)
22 A sky-hook wire system
23 Horizontal landing with shorter legs * (I kid you not)
24 Below deck self-deploying foot grabbing devices or some such thing *
25 Roombas wielding MIG welders # *

* And I was wrong"

# which a really clever person like me can see but *

What is missing from this list?  I am sure there were more such suggestions.

edit: Already added #19, 21-25

[Tuts36]

... What is missing from this list?  I am sure there were more such suggestions.

The ball pit

[CraigLieb]

I expected better BBC....

That makes it sound like a failure

I wonder if from now on, reporting on ALL other  launches should include the following statement.

" ________ delivered the _______ payload to orbit, but subsequently failed to recover their first stage, wasting a valuable resource by crashing it into the ocean."

[NovaSilisko]

On the subject of news coverage, I re-found the other BBC headline for the mission. Focused more on Jason-3 than the fate of the rocket.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35339776

Farther down:

An attempt by SpaceX to recover the bottom part of the Falcon by landing it back on a sea barge came very close to success. The booster found the platform but could not remain upright because a landing leg failed to lock. As a result, it toppled over and exploded.

edit: Also, Comga, I seem to remember someone suggesting helicopter blades at one point. Roton reborn!

[Mapperuo]

On the subject of news coverage, I re-found the other BBC headline for the mission. Focused more on Jason-3 than the fate of the rocket.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35339776

Farther down:

An attempt by SpaceX to recover the bottom part of the Falcon by landing it back on a sea barge came very close to success. The booster found the platform but could not remain upright because a landing leg failed to lock. As a result, it toppled over and exploded.

Much better

The one I saw was on the UK homepage but only seemed to be up for an hour or so.

[Lar]

... What is missing from this list?  I am sure there were more such suggestions.

Hover.  (you have "slower approach" but some have advocated actually hovering, which isn't possible with the throttling believed available in the 1D)

[bstrong]

That doesn't matter. The only thing that matters for their future is the perception among customers or potential customers, who are intelligent enough to know what this was.

And for them and the whole future of space exploitation how the competition perceives it.

I actually think this sort of coverage is good for the future of space exploration. The whole space community has been paralyzed for decades by a culture of pathological risk-aversion which is reinforced in many ways by the media. Getting the public used to reading headlines about rockets blowing up in ways that aren't characterized as "tragedies" but are associated with people doing interesting and important things in space is an important step in preparing society for a more aggressive risk posture in space exploration.

[Kaputnik]

... What is missing from this list?  I am sure there were more such suggestions.

Hover.  (you have "slower approach" but some have advocated actually hovering, which isn't possible with the throttling believed available in the 1D)

Yup. I'm sure people have suggested SD's or even Kestrel as a dedicated landing thruster.

[Oersted]

Yup, a lot of esteemed NSF members wrote postings to the effect of "obviously failed due to excess speed/ angled deck/ sea state, etc, etc."

A good reminder that speculation - in the absence of data - should always be given with a caveat...

[CraigLieb]

I may start a poll, and am soliciting help on making a complete list.  It would be titled "I was wrong" and will read

"I posted that SpaceX needs:

1   A bigger barge *
2   A more stable barge *
...

What is missing from this list?  I am sure there were more such suggestions.

Secondary landing gear  (tube-in-tube with Footers) along the rocket body that drop into place as legs deploy.
Act as belt and suspenders to prevent tipping in case a regular gear fails.