SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - Jason 3 - SLC-4E Vandenberg - Jan 17, 2016 - DISCUSSION

[jimbowman]

For those who can't visit Instagram

[punder]

To me it looks like the LOX blasted out first as the tank hit, and kero ignited a split second later.

[docmordrid]

Playing with pictures again

[Lee Jay]

If this explanation of condensation from the fog is correct, then this is a clear example of how when you do things nobodies ever done before, new things crop up that nobody expected. I expect a few more of these through the years as they figure all these things out, but eventually it'll be routine. Well done SpaceX.

No one's ever put down landing gear in icing conditions before?

[yg1968]

If this explanation of condensation from the fog is correct, then this is a clear example of how when you do things nobodies ever done before, new things crop up that nobody expected. I expect a few more of these through the years as they figure all these things out, but eventually it'll be routine. Well done SpaceX.

Please elaborate, what is this explanation about condensation?

On instagram, the following possible explanation is given:

Falcon lands on droneship, but the lockout collet doesn't latch on one the four legs, causing it to tip over post landing. Root cause may have been ice buildup due to condensation from heavy fog at liftoff.

[yg1968]

For those who can't visit Instagram

Uploaded it to Youtube:

[cleonard]

Seems like a straightforward fix.  Redesigned locking mechanism and/or some ground powered heaters before launch.  Good to go.

[MarsInMyLifetime]

I would not call the RUD event an explosion. The tankage bursts, then the ignition goes from the rear, where a flame source can be seen beforehand, toward the camera. I think this could be described as a low-energy deflagration, just to get a proper term out there.

[DecoLV]

I told you, all it needed was a kick stand...or an airbag. Or a mattress on the deck. (Somebody suggested a ball pit, I think. Kind of hard to do that one.)

[jimvela]

That disintegration seemed too quick to me- is it possible that the last act of FSW was to unzip the stage?

[meekGee]

I told you, all it needed was a kick stand...or an airbag. Or a mattress on the deck. (Somebody suggested a ball pit, I think. Kind of hard to do that one.)

You mean in addition to the four kick stands that it already has, right?

5-legged designs were discussed here a couple of years ago...  I think it's more effective to fix the icing sensitivity.  Whether heaters, or a cover/seal to prevent moisture from getting in, or just a modification to pre-launch procedures when there's concern about icing conditions.

[Lars-J]

That disintegration seemed too quick to me- is it possible that the last act of FSW was to unzip the stage?

Doubtful. A falling pressurized tank would unzip itself just fine. The propellant may be mostly gone, but the tanks still have lots of pressure.

[Stan-1967]

Yes, each attempt keeps getting closer and the big details of just getting on target seem solved, & it's great knowing that it appears that barge landing is going to end up as viable.   However after the successful landing at the Cape, this failure has me muttering the same thing over and over and over.....



The devil, as always, is in the details.   How many details can there be?  ( hydraulic fluid, lateral velocity, locking pin...??)    Here's wishing SpaceX better luck next time, and the hope that F9 Youtube explosion compilation ends with this 4th ball of fire.

[sewebster]

Are the water cannons spraying salt or fresh water? If fresh, it seemed like they had them started up fairly early (though maybe they just have huge tanks and don't care). If salt, were they supposed to track the stage as it came in? Seems like maybe not the best idea to spray salt water at things. Or maybe they were spraying water on something else entirely...?

Seems like they would need a boatload (literally) of fresh water to maintain it that long.

Maybe, but the flowrate didn't seem THAT high, and tanks can be pretty big on a barge... still, as I said, would seem odd to start so early if fresh.

In the Instagram video it looks like you can see the cannon on the far side pointing off into the sea until the stage arrives, then it whips around and generally points at the stage. Didn't make out what was happening on the near side... but it seems like the water is at least for the stage, and not to hose down something else, but perhaps that should have been obvious.

[CameronD]

Are the water cannons spraying salt or fresh water? If fresh, it seemed like they had them started up fairly early (though maybe they just have huge tanks and don't care). If salt, were they supposed to track the stage as it came in? Seems like maybe not the best idea to spray salt water at things. Or maybe they were spraying water on something else entirely...?

Seems like they would need a boatload (literally) of fresh water to maintain it that long.

Maybe, but the flowrate didn't seem THAT high, and tanks can be pretty big on a barge... still, as I said, would seem odd to start so early if fresh.

In the Instagram video it looks like you can see the cannon on the far side pointing off into the sea until the stage arrives, then it whips around and generally points at the stage. Didn't make out what was happening on the near side... but it seems like the water is at least for the stage, and not to hose down something else, but perhaps that should have been obvious.

FWIW, the primary reason for the water is to cool the deck plates and prevent the deck paint catching fire and, IIRC, it's fresh - not salt.

The reference for all that is in the ASDS Thread someplace, but I'm too busy to locate it right now..

[Craftyatom]

That disintegration seemed too quick to me- is it possible that the last act of FSW was to unzip the stage?

Well, FTS had been safed before the landing burn even started, if countdown net was accurate.  And I'd imagine they're using rather stable stuff for it, since it has to survive ridiculous vibration and temp variations.  Seems unlikely that would get involved.

To me, the "quick" disintegration is simply because it was pressurized - rather than the crumple of metal structures that I'm used to, it pops like a balloon.

If this explanation of condensation from the fog is correct, then this is a clear example of how when you do things nobodies ever done before, new things crop up that nobody expected. I expect a few more of these through the years as they figure all these things out, but eventually it'll be routine. Well done SpaceX.

No one's ever put down landing gear in icing conditions before?

I would hope no modern commercial aircraft use internal collets as their locking system - from what little I've read since Musk mentioned them, it doesn't seem like a mechanism that can easily be undone.

[freds]

So my question is since it was precisely position on the desk and the angle that it fell, maybe they still have the engines?

[Fr4nK]

My idea still hold ! ! ! Could have save the day 
 
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36892.msg1358908#msg1358908
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36892.msg1359939#msg1359939

[Steven Pietrobon]

Here are some of the interesting shots I missed during the webcast.

Inside the Vandenburg hanger.

View looking in.

Falcon 9 rolling to the pad.

Hanger door opening.

TE exiting hanger.

Side view of TE.

TE wheels, with shark teeth!

Falcon 9 interstage.

Interesting view of the top of the launch mount. It looks like this mount can only be used for Falcon 9 and not Falcon Heavy.

Falcon 9 on top of TE.

Another view.

[Steven Pietrobon]

Encapsulating the payload.

Of course I still love you (OCISLY).

Another view of OCISLY.

Orbcomm 2 Falcon 9 core rolling into Pad 39A hanger.

Liftoff! The hosted webcam had different views from the non-hosted webcam.

Soon after launch.

Rocketcam view of first stage.

First stage separation.

Another view of separation.

Post ignition. There's a lot of frost on the engine bell. Have a good view of the first stage.

Nozzle ring separation.