ATK push for US space flight independence via Liberty

[Zachstar]

Don't rant, FF. It'll only derail the thread.

So, after reading all of this, I suppose the question is, what is ATK’s shot at securing one of the 2.5 commercial crew awards during the downselect we are expecting this summer?

A decision this thread will have zero impact on!

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

Yes

Does ATK prefer liquid taxpayer cash to waste in my opinion or do they prefer the solid KSC structures just given to them? 

ATK just too easy to make puns for.

[sdsds]

You could ask if there's any way they could improve Liberty such that it would create and sustain jobs in states other than, "Alabama, California, Virginia, Utah, Texas, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Florida and Colorado."   (Just kidding, but yes that is their current claim.)

[Ronsmytheiii]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

Chris, mind asking if Liberty will use the current SRB case stockpile at least initially for the test flight/Liberty launches or will they construct new ones, and does NASA or ATK actually own the SRB cases? Also the same for the SRB aft skirts.

Edit: also, will ATK use the Ariane 5 avionics for Liberty, or are they starting from scratch?

[RocketmanUS]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

Chris, mind asking if Liberty will use the current SRB case stockpile at least initially for the test flight/Liberty launches or will they construct new ones, and does NASA or ATK actually own the SRB cases? Also the same for the SRB aft skirts.

Edit: also, will ATK use the Ariane 5 avionics for Liberty, or are they starting from scratch?

Add, what casing do they have and how many?
Plus can they make more if need?

Also, could a Liberty capsule launch on an Atlas V ( with crew and without crew )?

Are they planning on upgrading the solid motor of Liberty sometime in the future? If so what type might they use and what might be the new mass to LEO?

[Chris Bergin]

Zach, Sdsds - Cheeky!

Copy all on additional questions. Will write them all down and pick out the best.

[Jason1701]

You could ask if there's any way they could improve Liberty such that it would create and sustain jobs in states other than, "Alabama, California, Virginia, Utah, Texas, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Florida and Colorado."   (Just kidding, but yes that is their current claim.)

Yes, it sustains Chris's and Carl's jobs moderating this lot

[Prober]

Don't rant, FF. It'll only derail the thread.

So, after reading all of this, I suppose the question is, what is ATK’s shot at securing one of the 2.5 commercial crew awards during the downselect we are expecting this summer?

A decision this thread will have zero impact on!

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

I'd kinda like to know more about the history of what brought ATK and its euro partner on this project.
http://www.reinforcedplastics.com/view/4556/atk-delivers-composite-crew-module-to-nasa/
 
 "ATK has decades of experience in building composite structures for launch vehicles, military aircraft, and most recently commercial aircraft such as the Airbus A350," says Jack Cronin, President, ATK Mission Systems. "We have applied our innovative engineering and manufacturing capabilities to help the CCM team build a cutting-edge, composite space structure. We demonstrated our ability to perform, partner and deliver an advanced composite structure that's never been built for NASA."

[Lars_J]

I guess my question would be if the Liberty launch cost projections from ATK include KSC/LC-39 infrastructure costs.

[neilh]

Zach, Sdsds - Cheeky!

Copy all on additional questions. Will write them all down and pick out the best.

Biggest things I'm wondering about:

* it'd be great to have a question about the 45th Space Wing propellant debris/abort issue which keeps on coming up in the threads: if there's reasons why those findings aren't applicable in the case of Liberty or if they've worked out solutions

* ATK has mentioned that they would develop Liberty even without CCDev funding. Does this apply to both the capsule and the rocket? What are the likely non-NASA markets they see for the rocket and/or capsule?

[gospacex]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

Why 5-seg SRB was offered to NASA with 30% price increase over 4-seg one? It does not make sense - 5th segment is a simple middle segment (no nosecone, no nozzle) - so at worst, the cost should have risen by 25%, and in all fairness, it should have been less than that.

[Jim]

Why 5-seg SRB was offered to NASA with 30% price increase over 4-seg one? It does not make sense - 5th segment is a simple middle segment (no nosecone, no nozzle) - so at worst, the cost should have risen by 25%, and in all fairness, it should have been less than that.

Not true.  The cost is not just determine by weight and they didn't just "add" a fifth segment. There were many changes to the propellant configuration (molds), insulation, inhibitors and materials.  That takes engineering, which has to be paid for. 

And in all fairness, you need to stop making quick judgements, stop using Spacex as a gauge to measure everything by and do some research.

[MATTBLAK]

So true, Jim. I wonder how Elon feels about becoming a cult figure; and the standard by which all that is good, true and right about space is judged?!

[MATTBLAK]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

My question is about the first test launch in 2014 (is it 2014?).  What, exactly, is going to fly?  A dummy upper stage?  Five segments?  Athena 3?  Etc.?

 - Ed Kyle

It would seem logical to me that they might do something that the Ares 1Y flight was intended to do: test a full-up 5-segment flight article, have a 'dummy' mass-simulator for the second stage (in this case, the EADS stage) and fire a boilerplate capsule on an all-out test of the MLAS MAX abort system. But main difference to a Liberty flight: recover the first stage SRM like Ares 1X tried to do. Because until more segments are made they might need all they can get?

[Rocket Science]

Chris, Liberty is coupled to SLS. If in the future SLS does move to liquid boosters, can ATK guarantee the price per launch on Liberty will not skyrocket (no pun intended) and are they prepared to offer a fixed price long term contract for the next decade let’s say?

[gospacex]

Why 5-seg SRB was offered to NASA with 30% price increase over 4-seg one? It does not make sense - 5th segment is a simple middle segment (no nosecone, no nozzle) - so at worst, the cost should have risen by 25%, and in all fairness, it should have been less than that.

Not true.  The cost is not just determine by weight and they didn't just "add" a fifth segment. There were many changes to the propellant configuration (molds), insulation, inhibitors and materials.  That takes engineering, which has to be paid for.

I am under impression NASA already paid ATK for R&D of 5-seg SRB. The cost of procuring them should be an incremental cost.

[Lurker Steve]

You could ask if there's any way they could improve Liberty such that it would create and sustain jobs in states other than, "Alabama, California, Virginia, Utah, Texas, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Florida and Colorado."   (Just kidding, but yes that is their current claim.)

Yes, it sustains Chris's and Carl's jobs moderating this lot

But Chris doesn't count, since he lives on the other side of the pond.

[Lurker Steve]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

My question is about the first test launch in 2014 (is it 2014?).  What, exactly, is going to fly?  A dummy upper stage?  Five segments?  Athena 3?  Etc.?

 - Ed Kyle

It would seem logical to me that they might do something that the Ares 1Y flight was intended to do: test a full-up 5-segment flight article, have a 'dummy' mass-simulator for the second stage (in this case, the EADS stage) and fire a boilerplate capsule on an all-out test of the MLAS MAX abort system. But main difference to a Liberty flight: recover the first stage SRM like Ares 1X tried to do. Because until more segments are made they might need all they can get?

I thought part of the "advanced" boosters was going to lower-cost / non-reusable and lighter weight steel casings. Is there some extensive research, or at least 3 or 4 test firings that need to happen with the steel casings before ATK can just call up their sub-contractor and get them fabricated for use with Liberty and SLS ?

[wolfpack]

Last call for any important and previously unanswered questions before I request an interview with ATK and Mr Rominger.

I would like to know if ATK plans to do a full-up MLAS abort test @ maxQ with the real, 5-seg booster.

[Prober]

Chris, Liberty is coupled to SLS. If in the future SLS does move to liquid boosters, can ATK guarantee the price per launch on Liberty will not skyrocket (no pun intended) and are they prepared to offer a fixed price long term contract for the next decade let’s say?

No that should be a question.......Is Liberty is coupled to SLS?

[Rocket Science]

Chris, Liberty is coupled to SLS. If in the future SLS does move to liquid boosters, can ATK guarantee the price per launch on Liberty will not skyrocket (no pun intended) and are they prepared to offer a fixed price long term contract for the next decade let’s say?

No that should be a question.......Is Liberty is coupled to SLS?

Or perhaps two questions then...