ATK push for US space flight independence via Liberty

[mmeijeri]

I have no reason to believe this isn't safe and simple.

Well, that settles it then.

[spectre9]

Thanks for your comments Jim.

Do you disagree with Rominger?

“it's a core competency, so it makes sense,” says Rominger

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_05_14_2012_p24-456607.xml

Is Rominger wrong about his own company?

[Robert Thompson]

That video de-fenced me on ATK. Thank you.

[spectre9]

I have no reason to believe this isn't safe and simple.

Well, that settles it then.

This thread isn't the place for a solids vs liquids argument thanks.

[mmeijeri]

This thread isn't the place for a solids vs liquids argument thanks.

Why not? Segmented solids are one of the main things that distinguish Liberty from its competitors. And you brought the issue up.

[Rocket Science]

The whole safety issue of flying crew on solids keeps cropping up. As far as I can recall there has never been an abort test off your solid stack (please correct me if my early morning foggy brain is off). So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

[spectre9]

I was trying to be positive about Liberty.

That doesn't mean it's an opportunity to argue in the negative. 

[mmeijeri]

There isn't going to be that much commonality with Orion

How does that compare with the earlier Orion Lite idea? Is the Liberty capsule proposal basically resurrecting that or would it be different?

[GClark]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

[Rocket Science]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

[Jason1701]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

Can you elaborate on that report?

[Rocket Science]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

Can you elaborate on that report?

I've linked it in the past and it got deleted. That is why I didn't do it this time. (Just Google it, easy to find

[Jason1701]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

Can you elaborate on that report?

I've linked it in the past and it got deleted. That is why I didn't do it this time. (Just Google it, easy to find

Good stuff, thanks. I wonder if anyone tried to present evidence to counter its conclusions. This probably isn't the thread, though.

[Rocket Science]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

Can you elaborate on that report?

I've linked it in the past and it got deleted. That is why I didn't do it this time. (Just Google it, easy to find

Good stuff, thanks. I wonder if anyone tried to present evidence to counter its conclusions. This probably isn't the thread, though.

Until is it proven impossible, then it remains within the possible. So I say ATK, do the tests and put the matter to rest once and for all…

[GClark]

So ATK build your rocket and put it to the test. Do a few abort tests with a worst case explosion (pad, low alt. high-Max Q) and put it to rest. Are you up for it?

Let's also level the playing field and require the exact same tests of every potential provider - launch or crew vehicle, it matters not.

Sauce for the goose...

Sure, let’s do it… But remember this SRM is unique compared to all the other contenders using liquids and not the subject of a fratricide report from the 45th Space Wing…

I remember this issue quite well.  I guess my point is that we should require that all of the crew vehicle providers that claim their product is launch vehicle agnostic to prove it.

Unless, of course, we are finally going to get realistic about saftey...

I know, topic for another thread.

[docmordrid]

Possible or plausible? Mythbusters want to know

That said - if they're that confident then build a mass sim of the rest of the stack, turn that stage vertical & light the candle. Prove that 5 seg stage flies under flight loads.

[Chris Bergin]

WTF? A couple of people calling on ATK "to do some tests" in order to "prove them wrong"?

Has it seriously come to this? A bunch of armchair experts telling a massive aerospace company what they need to do to appease their "Solids are bad things" attitude? Do you realize that a) They will not give a crap what you think and b) how embarrassing you all sound?

Up your game, as I can assure you the majority of people read such posts and do this:

[neilh]

Chris, in that case what is the appropriate way to discuss worries about the design and potential ways to address those concerns? Either from the perspective of an armchair (or actual) engineer, or a taxpayer who would be funding this hypothetical project.

[Downix]

Chris, in that case what is the appropriate way to discuss worries about the design and potential ways to address those concerns? Either from the perspective of an armchair (or actual) engineer, or a taxpayer who would be funding this hypothetical project.

Simple, let the engineers do their jobs. The three ground tests already have given plenty of data for such work. They will continue to perform such system tests throughout the operational life of the vehicle. The debate over Ares was done by engineers. I have not heard such concerns here for good reason, they learned lessons and applied them.

[FinalFrontier]

1. This seems ok. ATK is good at composites. I think having commonality with Orion is a big bonus for the NASA exploration program.

Lastly I like the idea of how tall this rocket is going to be.

I think it will look impressive on it's own custom pad rolling down the causeway. Possibly with a sweet stars & stripes paint job 

Liberty isn't all bad. Those making the decisions at NASA have a difficult choice ahead of them.

None of your comments have any bearing.

ATK and composites have nothing to do with manned spacecraft structure
There isn't going to be that much commonality with Orion
Tall and thin are not good characteristics for a launch vehicle.

It is all that bad

This essentially summarizes the thread for me.