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#560 by bombay on 29 Dec, 2006 00:48
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quark - 27/12/2006 8:12 PM
Nothing like a white Christmas. But Christmas is over and another major snowstorm is forecasted to pound Denver.QuotePropforce - 21/12/2006 2:52 PM
Okay, tis Christmas and I am on my last day at work this year. Ironically I have a Lockheed Atlas V calendar (beautiful pictures BTW) and it shows those poor folks at Lockheed have to work tomorrow (... wiping tears now...).
I won't have many chances to post and poke fun at Jim over the holidays, so I will wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Best of luck with the folks in Denver as I see on TV that you folks are "snowed in" again. We are having a "winter" here in HB as well, a chilly 60 degree but sunny weather.
Be safe and spend the quality time with the love ones.
Prop-
Snow is beautiful, especially at holliday time.
Stay safe and warm to those in the Denver area; and to all - have a Happy New Year!
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#561 by Jim on 29 Dec, 2006 01:13
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Each area has its plus and minus. The LA area have earthquakes, which have no warning.
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#562 by Captain Scarlet on 29 Dec, 2006 11:41
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Propforce - 18/12/2006 8:33 PM
QuotePropforce - 18/12/2006 12:24 AM
..... We will be required to work for a minimum period of 2 years before we're eligible to seek employment back in Boeing. But we will be paid a 6 month bonus if we do.
Damn, just found out the executives will be getting a one-year bonus if they stay for 2 years. ^&*(%^ class system !!
One of the NASA people on here said you don't get paid a ton of money working for NASA. What's it like working for Boeing, LM etc? Do those companies attract people out of NASA, or is there more prestige going to NASA?
Hope that question doesn't p*** anyone off
Just interested from an outside perspective where I didn't even know about Atlas' and Deltas till I came to this site because the Shuttle owns the overseas interest.
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#563 by Jim on 29 Dec, 2006 12:26
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People move between the organizations both ways. It depends on what you are looking for
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#564 by bombay on 29 Dec, 2006 16:19
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Jim - 28/12/2006 7:56 PM
That's right. That's why S.Calif. is one of the cheaper areas in the country to live in and people are moving out in droves.
Each area has its plus and minus. The LA area have earthquakes, which have no warning. -
#565 by bombay on 29 Dec, 2006 16:38
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Captain Scarlet - 29/12/2006 6:24 AM
NASA survives on a gov't allocated budget, so salaries would fall in line with what gov't employees make, which will be less than Boeing's or LM's. However, the benefit package for NASA employees is probably second to none.
One of the NASA people on here said you don't get paid a ton of money working for NASA. What's it like working for Boeing, LM etc? Do those companies attract people out of NASA, or is there more prestige going to NASA?
Hope that question doesn't p*** anyone off Just interested from an outside perspective where I didn't even know about Atlas' and Deltas till I came to this site because the Shuttle owns the overseas interest.
Personally, I know of some that crossed from BA/LM to NASA but not the other way around. The one's that crossed to NASA are actually contracted by NASA through an outside agency and serve on teams that essentially audit the work of the BA/LM engineering groups to ensure that all of the I's are dotted and T's are crossed.
NASA may come up with a statemant of work of what they want to accomplish. But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous. -
#566 by Jim on 29 Dec, 2006 18:01
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bombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
1. However, the benefit package for NASA employees is probably second to none.
2. NASA may come up with a statemant of work of what they want to accomplish. But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
1. Not true since Reagan
2. NASA still does inhouse work -
#567 by Jim on 29 Dec, 2006 19:31
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bombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture. -
#568 by bombay on 29 Dec, 2006 19:38
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Jim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture. -
#569 by Dexter on 30 Dec, 2006 01:33
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quark - 27/12/2006 8:12 PM
Snow is beautiful, especially at holliday time.
Tell that to the people that were stranded at Denver's airport.
Tell that to the people who had to rearrange travel plans, especially at holiday time.
If you were a religious person and you thought of these blizzards as acts of God, you conclude that God is against ULA with job offers going out to HB folks right when they have to might a relocation decision and have time off to ponder the consequences of living in Denver.
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#570 by Dexter on 30 Dec, 2006 01:44
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bombay - 29/12/2006 2:21 PM
QuoteJim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture.
Ironically, the people who turn statements of work into reality are the highest risk of not moving if you pay attention to Propforce and Gus with regard to the ULA scheme.
The people who write and negotiate statements of work which are more of a contractual broad based document are the ones being offered the double bonuses because of the need to elevate their self-importance.
When all the dust settels on cosolidations, I am sure the company will be expertly capable of writing and negotiating statements of work but will not be able to design anything because they drove away all the CAD mouse pushers.
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#571 by spacedreams on 30 Dec, 2006 05:27
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bombay - 29/12/2006 9:21 AM
QuoteCaptain Scarlet - 29/12/2006 6:24 AM One of the NASA people on here said you don't get paid a ton of money working for NASA. What's it like working for Boeing, LM etc? Do those companies attract people out of NASA, or is there more prestige going to NASA? Hope that question doesn't p*** anyone off
NASA survives on a gov't allocated budget, so salaries would fall in line with what gov't employees make, which will be less than Boeing's or LM's. However, the benefit package for NASA employees is probably second to none. Personally, I know of some that crossed from BA/LM to NASA but not the other way around. The one's that crossed to NASA are actually contracted by NASA through an outside agency and serve on teams that essentially audit the work of the BA/LM engineering groups to ensure that all of the I's are dotted and T's are crossed. NASA may come up with a statemant of work of what they want to accomplish. But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous. Just interested from an outside perspective where I didn't even know about Atlas' and Deltas till I came to this site because the Shuttle owns the overseas interest.I don't think there is a general answer for this one. It can change depending on location and/or company. I can tell you that at JSC we have NASA people performing the exact same function and literally in the same funtional group as United Space Alliance and Barrios employees as flight controllers. The NASA badged people make significantly more $$$ than the USA and Barrios employees, even in situation where the contractor is senior or lead relative to the NASA person. In many cases the NASA person is mentored/trained by a lower paid contractor. It is a source of many conflicts. On the other hand, USA has exceptional benefits.
Then there are Boeing and LM people who work in the MER roles that provide technical support for the flight controllers (i.e. if the flight controller needs an analysis done they ask for MER help). The Boeing people make significantly more $$ than the USA/Barrios folks but the LM guys are about even with USA. Boeing has better benefits and LM is horrible in that area.
I am not really familiar with KSC but I do know out there that there is a definite division between contractor and NASA. At JSC the various funtional groups will have employees from a variety of contractors and NASA that work side by side together, badgeless as we say.
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#572 by Jim on 30 Dec, 2006 14:28
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bombay - 29/12/2006 3:21 PM
QuoteJim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture.
I am talking bigger picture than just designing a widget. Multiple missions, different launch systems, National space launch manifest. Items that are on the national level and not at the piece parts -
#573 by Jim on 30 Dec, 2006 14:32
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Dexter - 29/12/2006 9:16 PM
Quotequark - 27/12/2006 8:12 PM
Snow is beautiful, especially at holliday time.
Tell that to the people that were stranded at Denver's airport.
Tell that to the people who had to rearrange travel plans, especially at holiday time.
If you were a religious person and you thought of these blizzards as acts of God, you conclude that God is against ULA with job offers going out to HB folks right when they have to might a relocation decision and have time off to ponder the consequences of living in Denver.
Horsehockey and bull.
Wah wah wah. Shit happens
SoCal has its earthquakes , wildfires, storms etc too -
#574 by Jim on 30 Dec, 2006 14:35
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Dexter - 29/12/2006 9:27 PM
Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 2:21 PM
QuoteJim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture.
Ironically, the people who turn statements of work into reality are the highest risk of not moving if you pay attention to Propforce and Gus with regard to the ULA scheme.
The people who write and negotiate statements of work which are more of a contractual broad based document are the ones being offered the double bonuses because of the need to elevate their self-importance.
When all the dust settels on cosolidations, I am sure the company will be expertly capable of writing and negotiating statements of work but will not be able to design anything because they drove away all the CAD mouse pushers.
Gloom and Doom, gloom and doom.
When all the dust settels on cosolidations, I am sure the company will be launching rockets successfully just like the previous 5 years
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#575 by Jim on 30 Dec, 2006 14:41
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Dexter - 29/12/2006 9:16 PM
Quotequark - 27/12/2006 8:12 PM
Snow is beautiful, especially at holliday time.
Tell that to the people that were stranded at Denver's airport.
Tell that to the people who had to rearrange travel plans, especially at holiday time.
If you were a religious person and you thought of these blizzards as acts of God, you conclude that God is against ULA with job offers going out to HB folks right when they have to might a relocation decision and have time off to ponder the consequences of living in Denver.
Horsehockey and bull.
Wah wah wah. Shit happens
SoCal has its earthquakes , wildfires, storms etc too -
#576 by bombay on 30 Dec, 2006 22:10
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Jim - 30/12/2006 9:11 AM
All of which is broadly incorporated in a SOW and all of which requires the culmination of bringing together all of the individually designed widgets and piece parts into a working system.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 3:21 PM
QuoteJim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture.
I am talking bigger picture than just designing a widget. Multiple missions, different launch systems, National space launch manifest. Items that are on the national level and not at the piece parts
So at the end of the day, after watching and waiting for the Boeing and LM engineers to prove the NASA idea valid as proposed in the SOW, you can slap yourself on the back for a job well-done.
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#577 by Jim on 31 Dec, 2006 14:52
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bombay - 30/12/2006 5:53 PM
QuoteJim - 30/12/2006 9:11 AM
All of which is broadly incorporated in a SOW and all of which requires the culmination of bringing together all of the individually designed widgets and piece parts into a working system.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 3:21 PM
QuoteJim - 29/12/2006 2:14 PM
And I prefer jobs that take that big picture that's broadly displayed in a statement of work and actually makes it real.Quotebombay - 29/12/2006 12:21 PM
But Boeing and Lockheed figure out how to do it. To me, the latter is more prestigous.
Only your opinion.
I prefer jobs that see the big picture.
I am talking bigger picture than just designing a widget. Multiple missions, different launch systems, National space launch manifest. Items that are on the national level and not at the piece parts
So at the end of the day, after watching and waiting for the Boeing and LM engineers to prove the NASA idea valid as proposed in the SOW, you can slap yourself on the back for a job well-done.
Not true, at the end of the day, I might decide that OSC or someone else can do the job better and give them the work.
I use to work for Boeing, been there, done that and, now I have moved on to bigger and better things
Also, the "system" is more than just LM or Boeing doing their work, they can't do the whole job. It called system engineering and integration. And actually Boeing Delta is asking NASA for more help in this area -
#578 by Dexter on 02 Jan, 2007 04:44
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Jim - 30/12/2006 9:24 AM
QuoteDexter - 29/12/2006 9:16 PM
Quotequark - 27/12/2006 8:12 PM
Snow is beautiful, especially at holliday time.
Tell that to the people that were stranded at Denver's airport.
Tell that to the people who had to rearrange travel plans, especially at holiday time.
If you were a religious person and you thought of these blizzards as acts of God, you conclude that God is against ULA with job offers going out to HB folks right when they have to might a relocation decision and have time off to ponder the consequences of living in Denver.
Horsehockey and bull.
Wah wah wah. Shit happens
SoCal has its earthquakes , wildfires, storms etc tooI would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year.
Alabama has tornadoes and hurricanes.
Notice the "If" qualifier. Every region has its natural maladies to contend with but as in comedy, timing is everything. When is the last time Denver experienced two storms in quick succession?
You just have to wonder how these events covered on all the national news outlets will affect the thinking of the HB folks who must decide on whether they should relocate or not.
Anyone watch the Rose Bowl today and notice the weather?
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#579 by Dexter on 02 Jan, 2007 05:08
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Jim - 31/12/2006 9:35 AM
Not true, at the end of the day, I might decide that OSC or someone else can do the job better and give them the work.
I use to work for Boeing, been there, done that and, now I have moved on to bigger and better things
Also, the "system" is more than just LM or Boeing doing their work, they can't do the whole job. It called system engineering and integration. And actually Boeing Delta is asking NASA for more help in this area"I might decide..."
Don't tell us you have authority to single-handedly make decisions. That is unheard of in a government agency.Last time I checked, Lockheed was launching satellites for commercial customers without NASA's help. Boeing also did the same on a few missions.
As far as NASA's expertise, wasn't there a Mars mission that crashed because of a english vs. metric system issue? That sounds like a big picture problem to me.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb277/is_199909/ai_n15300293
http://www.space.com/news/mco_report-b_991110.html
Just interested from an outside perspective where I didn't even know about Atlas' and Deltas till I came to this site because the Shuttle owns the overseas interest.
Don't tell us you have authority to single-handedly make decisions. That is unheard of in a government agency.