Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION  (Read 618542 times)

Offline sdsds

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #360 on: 10/08/2012 02:17 am »
Obviously not a clean shut down of engine 1, yet no fratricidal damage to the other engines. Wondering if the cowling is designed to fail in that circumstance, allowing the energetic debris to flow out and away?
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:18 am by sdsds »
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Offline rdale

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #361 on: 10/08/2012 02:17 am »
I also thought that the first stage burned ~20 seconds longer than planned, but it might have been that the audio and video were out of sync.

An exploding turbopump could also explain that.

I think Gwynne just confirmed that, or something like it.   ;)

What could be like an exploding turbopump that isn't?

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #362 on: 10/08/2012 02:18 am »
Engine one anomaly.

Anomaly and a longer burn was basically confirmed.  Implied engine out?

FWIW, engine 1 should be the upper left one in the onboard video and I noticed no venting at its supposed shutdown at announced MECO-1. All other launches had it very noticeable. Either it was left burning to compensate for something or it shut down earlier than that (my guess).

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #363 on: 10/08/2012 02:19 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #364 on: 10/08/2012 02:19 am »
Believe Barber-Nichols makes M1C pumps. I've heard that the M1D ones that SpaceX makes have tighter tolerances.

Could the big chunk that falls away be a nozzle?
« Last Edit: 10/08/2012 02:22 am by Jason1701 »

Offline Chandonn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #365 on: 10/08/2012 02:22 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

She said "anomaly on Engine 1", not "lost engine 1", not "turbopump explosion", and not "violent event".  All of that is pure speculation.  At this point we only know there was some sort of anomaly on engine 1.  It could be as simple as an early shutdown due to high temperatures.

Offline kirghizstan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #366 on: 10/08/2012 02:22 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

please note that she said anomaly NOT loss of engine.

Online Lee Jay

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #367 on: 10/08/2012 02:23 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

She said "anomaly on Engine 1", not "lost engine 1", not "turbopump explosion", and not "violent event".  All of that is pure speculation.  At this point we only know there was some sort of anomaly on engine 1.  It could be as simple as an early shutdown due to high temperatures.

Well, the video shows a lot of parts coming off too, so more than just an early shutdown.  I'm not entirely convinced that it shut down from the video alone, but it might have.

Offline Chris-A

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #368 on: 10/08/2012 02:25 am »

Offline Chandonn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #369 on: 10/08/2012 02:26 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

She said "anomaly on Engine 1", not "lost engine 1", not "turbopump explosion", and not "violent event".  All of that is pure speculation.  At this point we only know there was some sort of anomaly on engine 1.  It could be as simple as an early shutdown due to high temperatures.

Well, the video shows a lot of parts coming off too, so more than just an early shutdown.  I'm not entirely convinced that it shut down from the video alone, but it might have.


Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #370 on: 10/08/2012 02:27 am »
Speculation: the event came suspiciously close to max-Q. If it was indeed the corner engine fairing that broke off (and that was a fairly large piece visible), it might have damaged the corner engine enough to cause the engine controller to shut it down.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #371 on: 10/08/2012 02:27 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

Edit: yes, this is pure speculation on my part, but the fact that Gwynne just verified an engine was lost, along with obvious visual evidence of a major violent event occurring, it's pretty evident that something serious happened to Engine 1. And I'm just saying...my first reaction was that it looked to me like a turbopump explosion...

please note that she said anomaly NOT loss of engine.

I do stand corrected there, she did say "anomaly" and not "loss."

Offline sitharus

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #372 on: 10/08/2012 02:27 am »

Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

Looks like parts to me, shapes are too regular

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #373 on: 10/08/2012 02:29 am »
I called it first: turbopump exploded.

who makes M1C turbopumps?
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Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #374 on: 10/08/2012 02:30 am »
Speculation: the event came suspiciously close to max-Q. If it was indeed the corner engine fairing that broke off (and that was a fairly large piece visible), it might have damaged the corner engine enough to cause the engine controller to shut it down.

I like this one better.  Since the turbopumps are supposed to be compartmentalized to prevent collateral damage, why would a failed turbopump cause such a large piece to fall off?

otoh, ugordan's explanation is a single cause proposal.  my vote's here.
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Online Lee Jay

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #375 on: 10/08/2012 02:32 am »
Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

See if you can play the video I posted above.  It's conclusive that parts came off.

Offline kirghizstan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #376 on: 10/08/2012 02:33 am »
i cannot do screen captures on this but the video from below seems to show something happening at that moment to like the plume of one engine changes and after a few seconds shuts down.  maybe someone here can take a look and let me know if i'm seeing things.  it looks like there is a darker streak on one of the corners relative to the others.

Offline Chandonn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #377 on: 10/08/2012 02:35 am »
Does it?  I see what looks like the vehicle passing through the cloud deck.

See if you can play the video I posted above.  It's conclusive that parts came off.

I still disagree.  It happens right as the vehicle passes through the cloud deck.  It could be a part falling off, or a turbopump exploding.  I'd rather wait for something official before jumping to conclusions.  And, yes, the video DOES simply look like a pass through the cloud layer to me.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #378 on: 10/08/2012 02:38 am »
Speculation: the event came suspiciously close to max-Q. If it was indeed the corner engine fairing that broke off (and that was a fairly large piece visible), it might have damaged the corner engine enough to cause the engine controller to shut it down.

I like this one better.  Since the turbopumps are supposed to be compartmentalized to prevent collateral damage, why would a failed turbopump cause such a large piece to fall off?

otoh, ugordan's explanation is a single cause proposal.  my vote's here.

I agree, on further review, with ugordan. There were big, big pieces coming off right after going supersonic, and it's more likely aero forces than an exploding turbopump making those big pieces come off. I retract my rash exploding turbopump theory...

Offline Hooperball

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION
« Reply #379 on: 10/08/2012 02:38 am »
Looks like Spacex just pulled the video off their YouTube channel...

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