SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION

[LegendCJS]

Note to Elon Musk and his PAO: Improve your EOM coverage! More updates! Also, get a plane in the air and get some good live video of the chutes and splashdown. It would go a long way to maintaining interest...

SpaceX is focused on reducing mission costs. Live EOM coverage hardly makes sense in that context. Remember, live video from a Pacific Ocean location requires expensive satellite bandwidth.
When future versions of Dragon can land on land, then we'll get to see some good video of chutes and touchdown. Need to be patient and wait until about 2015 for that to happen, all going well.

Live coverage bandwidth can't be all that expensive, and is getting less expensive as time goes on.  If SpaceX can deliver on the re-entry targeting accuracy they have been talking about, then the number of assets needed to spot the return capsule should also be minimized to very manageable numbers (one boat that has to be there anyway)  I have to admit that the live broadcast aspect is the least important here, but there should be no reason that good visual coverage isn't possible with minimum tracking assets provided their landing accuracy becomes what they want it to be.

[Ben the Space Brit]

Regarding the return, I think that SpaceX just isn't interested in the effort of showing the re-entry and splashdown of what is, after all, a routine mission.  We'll see this more and more as CRS gets more and more routine - SpaceX will not be giving more than cursory attention and will probably mostly only do Twitter updates unless there is a serious anomaly.  Full media coverage and attention will move to their under-development projects like Grasshopper and Dragonrider.

Ultimately, I think that Elon Musk is a very canny marketeer; he wants to keep excitement high by focussing attention on the Shiny New Thing rather than showing the old thing doing what it is supposed to do.  I'm pretty sure that he isn't as interested in the Space Fan community as he sometimes makes out, mostly because the more information he gives them, the more rope he weaves for his enemies (in the same community) to try to knot into a noose.

Now, a question: The SpX-1 Dragon is carrying at least one science payload and items returned for engineering checks and possible reconditioning.  What will be the procedure for removing them and sending them wherever they need to go.  Will that be done when the barge arrives in port, will it be done at Hawthorne or what?

[Jason1701]

Now, a question: The SpX-1 Dragon is carrying at least one science payload and items returned for engineering checks and possible reconditioning.  What will be the procedure for removing them and sending them wherever they need to go.  Will that be done when the barge arrives in port, will it be done at Hawthorne or what?

Early items are removed in Long Beach and flown to Houston. The rest of the cargo is removed after Dragon arrives at McGregor. It doesn't go to Hawthorne until it's all clean.

[Jim]

Live coverage bandwidth can't be all that expensive, and is getting less expensive as time goes on.  If SpaceX can deliver on the re-entry targeting accuracy they have been talking about, then the number of assets needed to spot the return capsule should also be minimized to very manageable numbers (one boat that has to be there anyway)  I have to admit that the live broadcast aspect is the least important here, but there should be no reason that good visual coverage isn't possible with minimum tracking assets provided their landing accuracy becomes what they want it to be.

Huh?  It is and it is a PITA.  The ships would need stabilized platforms, not to mention the additional people to man cameras and the relay station.

[happyflower]

Some good words from mike suffredini regarding Spacex SPX-1 and SPX-2. Sorry I dont know how to make a video go to a specific time.  Go to 40:10 to 46:00 mark for SpaceX part.




edit: added the times.

[Garrett]

Live coverage bandwidth can't be all that expensive, and is getting less expensive as time goes on.  If SpaceX can deliver on the re-entry targeting accuracy they have been talking about, then the number of assets needed to spot the return capsule should also be minimized to very manageable numbers (one boat that has to be there anyway)  I have to admit that the live broadcast aspect is the least important here, but there should be no reason that good visual coverage isn't possible with minimum tracking assets provided their landing accuracy becomes what they want it to be.

Huh?  It is and it is a PITA.  The ships would need stabilized platforms, not to mention the additional people to man cameras and the relay station.

PITA, had to look that up 

@ LegendCJS : since when did satellite bandwidth for live video feed from the Pacific Ocean become less expensive? Sure, SpaceX could do it if they had good reasons for doing so, but as Jim pointed out it's an engineering PITA, and as Ben pointed out it probably makes little sense from a public relations perspective.

When they can touchdown on land (hopefully by 2015) then it should be trivial (i.e. cheap) for them to provide routine HD video coverage of EOM.

[nisse]

Feel I should point out that the press kit says that with packaging there is 905 kg cargo mass.  And this should give a hint: if packaging nearly doubles your cargo mass it must all be pretty bulky stuff, so I'm in the volume limited camp.

Assuming Dragon is fully packed and the cargo is volume limited. Would this mean that SpaceX have fulfilled their contractual obligations in full despite the lack in cargo mass?

From hatch opening video it seems that the whole STB compartment is empty. Dragon seems not even close to full to me.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=14483&media_id=153679981

Seems that the performance of F9/Dragon is exaggerated with a factor 10.

Not being able to put the Orbcomm payload in the correct orbit despite a very light Dragon seems to point in the same direction.

[Garrett]

From hatch opening video it seems that the whole STB compartment is empty. Dragon seems not even close to full to me.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=14483&media_id=153679981

Seems that the performance of F9/Dragon is exaggerated with a factor 10.

Not being able to put the Orbcomm payload in the correct orbit despite a very light Dragon seems to point in the same direction.

You haven't been following the mission that much, have you? Because if you had been, then you'd know that your post is a bit wayward.
Now, there's no crime in not following a mission closely, but you probably shouldn't make assumptions without recognizing that maybe you don't know the whole story.
Think about rephrasing your comment and you might get some useful answers in return.

[peter-b]

This has been discussed to death here and addressed at news briefings. NASA decided not to use all of the available upmass on this flight; the excess margin was used for OrbComm and ballasting. The ballast is the reason that adding the mass of the Dragon, OrbComm satellite, and manifested payload does not add up to the quoted F9 performance. "Factor of 10"? Nonsense.

[Nomadd]

 Bandwidth doesn't need to be expensive if you're not living in the 90s. You can put something like a ku band Seatel 4010 on your boat and use the same bandwidth you already pay for with other VSATs. "Stabilized platform" is a little misleading. The dishes are just extremely well balanced and only require tiny motors to maintain 1/2 degree accuracy. It's not great bandwidth, but 2mbs is enough for a decent video feed and then some. Many high gain tracking wireless antennas are available now for relaying out to 30 miles. You don't need "additional people" to man things.
 

[bob the martian]

Bandwidth doesn't need to be expensive if you're not living in the 90s. You can put something like a ku band Seatel 4010 on your boat and use the same bandwidth you already pay for with other VSATs. "Stabilized platform" is a little misleading. The dishes are just extremely well balanced and only require tiny motors to maintain 1/2 degree accuracy. It's not great bandwidth, but 2mbs is enough for a decent video feed and then some. Many high gain tracking wireless antennas are available now for relaying out to 30 miles. You don't need "additional people" to man things.
 

There's a point where catering to the fans on the Internet no longer makes business sense.  Yeah, a live video feed (or heck, just a recording) of reentry and splashdown would be undeniably cool and something I'd love to see, but it doesn't add anything to the bottom line. 

SpaceX isn't an entertainment company; they're not out to capture eyeballs on Youtube or other video outlet.  Sure, people like us would eat it up, but it won't translate into any business opportunities; I doubt many of us have a satellite that needs launching. 

[Mader Levap]

From hatch opening video it seems that the whole STB compartment is empty. Dragon seems not even close to full to me.

NASA decides what to put on any particular flight. Send complaint to them that they did not put a few hundred kg lead block in capsule among other cargo.

Seems that the performance of F9/Dragon is exaggerated with a factor 10.

Do you think Dragon is supposed to have maximum capacity of 10 tons of cargo? You seem to be severely misinformed. No surprise, frankly speaking.

Not being able to put the Orbcomm payload in the correct orbit despite a very light Dragon seems to point in the same direction.

Nope. Inability was related to ISS being in way. After engine failure and compensation it was "only" 95% chance of having sufficient fuel to have successful burn to place Orbcomms in correct orbit. Rules required 99%. Result: Orbcomm got shafted.

[baldusi]

They explained this on the 33 expedition spacewalk briefing:
-NASA has no immediate need for the total amount of payload.
-SpaceX asked if they could send less than the average amount to put the secondary of Orbcomm.
-In exchange, SpaceX will pay themselves for an increase in power supply to payloads both up and down (that will be available from the six fly onward).
-NASA has still enough margin to use the full amount of payload contracted.
-The Falcon 9 was ballasted.
So, NASA didn't needed the payload right now, and in exchange they got the extra power that they do need to take up and down some experiments that need conditioning all the way to the station

[Robotbeat]

They explained this on the 33 expedition spacewalk briefing:
-NASA has no immediate need for the total amount of payload.
-SpaceX asked if they could send less than the average amount to put the secondary of Orbcomm.
-In exchange, SpaceX will pay themselves for an increase in power supply to payloads both up and down (that will be available from the six fly onward).
-NASA has still enough margin to use the full amount of payload contracted.
-The Falcon 9 was ballasted.
So, NASA didn't needed the payload right now, and in exchange they got the extra power that they do need to take up and down some experiments that need conditioning all the way to the station

Informative!

[Nomadd]

 Is ballasting needed to keep Gs down or to avoid a different flight/fuel burn/ whatever profile for every payload?

[hrissan]

.
-The Falcon 9 was ballasted.

But why did they do this? Does it make sense at all to lower performance?

The flight computer shuts down some engines to limit g-factor, could it just be prepared to shut them down a bit earlier?

Or the problem is with loads on the restraint system on the pad?

[Silmfeanor]

.
-The Falcon 9 was ballasted.

But why did they do this? Does it make sense at all to lower performance?

The flight computer shuts down some engines to limit g-factor, could it just be prepared to shut them down a bit earlier?

Or the problem is with loads on the restraint system on the pad?

How about balancing an off-center satellite? 

[meekGee]

I could also have something to do with dynamic behavior.

Think about driving an empty van vs. a fully loaded one.

[Comga]

"Ben the space Brit" complains that Dragon looks "reallly beat-up at EOM".  What I see is that the char rubs off pretty easily.  It would be interesting to see what it would look like if SpaceX tried to clean it up. Now that they have a couple of display models from COTS-1, COTS-2+, and now CRS-1, perhaps they can show how a refurbished Dragon will look for a reflight. 

[Chris Bergin]

Some housekeeping.

This thread will obviously continue, but please note we have a CRS-2/SpX-2 General Discussion thread already active here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30184.0

I'll also start a CRS-2/SpX-2 Processing thread this week (maybe today).