SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION

[Jim]

https://twitter.com/Astro_Suni/status/258628475722809344

On unloading #Dragon, we found a very thoughful and timely gift from our friends @SpaceX - fall apples! http://twitpic.com/b5164y

Jim will have a field day over this one.
Love the picture. That other 'unlisted' gift shows in the back.

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

[peter-b]

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

You know, the simplest explanation is that all of these additions were cleared with the Astronaut Office in advance -- but the crew just weren't told that they were on board.

[psloss]

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

You know, the simplest explanation is that all of these additions were cleared with the Astronaut Office in advance -- but the crew just weren't told that they were on board.

It wouldn't be within the Astronaut Office/Flight Crew Operations Directorate branch that one would have to ask for permission or forgiveness.

[peter-b]

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

You know, the simplest explanation is that all of these additions were cleared with the Astronaut Office in advance -- but the crew just weren't told that they were on board.

It wouldn't be the Astronaut Office that one would have to ask for permission or forgiveness.

You know what I mean.

[psloss]

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

You know, the simplest explanation is that all of these additions were cleared with the Astronaut Office in advance -- but the crew just weren't told that they were on board.

It wouldn't be the Astronaut Office that one would have to ask for permission or forgiveness.

You know what I mean.

How about most of the readers here?

A common misconception is the astronauts' position in the chain of command/authority.

[Prober]

https://twitter.com/Astro_Suni/status/258628475722809344

On unloading #Dragon, we found a very thoughful and timely gift from our friends @SpaceX - fall apples! http://twitpic.com/b5164y

Jim will have a field day over this one.
Love the picture. That other 'unlisted' gift shows in the back.

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

Guess I’ve come to more of an understanding; putting myself in Jim’s shoes so to speak.

What we are seeing are “signs” the program is going out of control.   Signs that the SpaceX crew thinks they are NASA, and not a contractor.

In SpaceX culture, this could get ugly.

[Silmfeanor]

Oh please. Can we not panic?
For all we know, all these items where on the detailed list of items delivered, and the astronauts knew well in advance or were told that there was some fresh produce. All cleared with NASA and ISS.

No evidence whatsoever that this was a surprise, unexpected, unlisted, a discovery or any of these. Nothing like a sheet of paper with a photo on it. Until you _know_ this was not on the manifest and cleared in advance, can we stop making statements like "SpaceX thinks its NASA" and "someone should get fired" or any of those.

If it _was_ any of those, it is indeed cause for discussions, talks, firing people or whatever. But until you have actual evidence of this not being on the detailed manifest it is not.

And certainly not on the live updates thread.

[rst]

You know, the simplest explanation is that all of these additions were cleared with the Astronaut Office in advance -- but the crew just weren't told that they were on board.

This is hardly the first time that an ISS cargo shipment has included unannounced goodies for the astronauts --- see, for instance, this Don Pettit interview pre-COTS-2/3, about 5:00 in:

 

He says that it's routine for them to find a goodie bag on Progress resupply ships, quite often including fresh fruit, and notes with apparent disappointment that they hadn't found any on the most recent visit of ATV.  He also repeatedly says he'd like to see one on Dragon, which I wouldn't expect him to say if it would somehow be a huge breach of protocol.

I presume there's NASA concurrence for this, but I'd presume the same for Dragon as well.

[woods170]

https://twitter.com/Astro_Suni/status/258628475722809344

On unloading #Dragon, we found a very thoughful and timely gift from our friends @SpaceX - fall apples! http://twitpic.com/b5164y

Jim will have a field day over this one.
Love the picture. That other 'unlisted' gift shows in the back.

Would have been fired for doing something like that.  I wonder if behind the scenes, there are some discussions going on. 

Guess I’ve come to more of an understanding; putting myself in Jim’s shoes so to speak.

What we are seeing are “signs” the program is going out of control.   Signs that the SpaceX crew thinks they are NASA, and not a contractor.

In SpaceX culture, this could get ugly.

Assumption on your part. Earlier in this thread, when the previous 'unlisted' item made its appearance, we had Jim saying that it was not on the cargo manifest. I proceeded to ask him if he had access to the official cargo manifest, not the publically available PAO version. So far he failed to answer that question.
Without any of us having actually confirmed that the poster and apples ARE or ARE NOT on the official cargo manifest, OR were at least cleared with NASA beforehand, any opinion on this is unfounded.

[avollhar]

It has only been NASA being picky about small items going to ISS.. I know about russian cosmonauts stuffing their pockets with little gifts before Soyuz launch. A widely known fact.. why bothering with SpaceX doing the same?

[AndyX]

Massive dump of hi res images from CRS-1 being uploaded in L2! (The set NASA didn't publish, like with the C2+ dump!)

[mlindner]

Massive dump of hi res images from CRS-1 being uploaded in L2! (The set NASA didn't publish, like with the C2+ dump!)

My posts seem to keep getting deleted.

I'm still new to these forums, can you be more specific? What is L2?

[baldusi]

On the top of the page, next to the logo. Click there and read. Paid subscription for exclusive content.

[Galactic Penguin SST]

Massive dump of hi res images from CRS-1 being uploaded in L2! (The set NASA didn't publish, like with the C2+ dump!)

My posts seem to keep getting deleted.

I'm still new to these forums, can you be more specific? What is L2?

To answer for Chris et al: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/l2/ 

(and http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22487.0)

[Chris Bergin]

Used some of those photos (I think we're over 300, at 3Mb or so each!) in the article I've just put on:

Dragon enjoying ISS stay, despite minor issues – Falcon 9 investigation begins:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/10/dragon-iss-stay-minor-issues-falcon-9-investigation/

[manboy]

Used some of those photos (I think we're over 300, at 3Mb or so each!) in the article I've just put on:

Dragon enjoying ISS stay, despite minor issues – Falcon 9 investigation begins:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/10/dragon-iss-stay-minor-issues-falcon-9-investigation/

Information on the external payloads, sweet! 

[robertross]

Used some of those photos (I think we're over 300, at 3Mb or so each!) in the article I've just put on:

Dragon enjoying ISS stay, despite minor issues – Falcon 9 investigation begins:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/10/dragon-iss-stay-minor-issues-falcon-9-investigation/

I so like calm and informative articles. Beauty, Chris.

[ChefPat]

The article mentions the extensive testing done on the Merlin 1C. I'm curious if they've ever had a Fuel Dome problem in any of those tests? If so, will that make nailing down what happened simpler & not delaying the upcoming CRS-2?

[woods170]

The article mentions the extensive testing done on the Merlin 1C. I'm curious if they've ever had a Fuel Dome problem in any of those tests? If so, will that make nailing down what happened simpler & not delaying the upcoming CRS-2?

A SpaceX update page from 2005 mentions that during Merlin development the company had witnessed a number of RUD events. (Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly). The update specifically mentions a chamber rupture, so, it seems likely that SpaceX has witnessed a similar event before during Merlin testing.

Then there is the question of dealing with the comparatively rare case of a chamber rupture. To protect against this, Falcon 9 will have a blast shield protecting the entire base of the vehicle just above the gimbal joints of the engines. In addition, there will be fireproofed Kevlar fragment containment around each engine, similar to those present in jet engine nacelles. The explosive power of a liquid rocket chamber is actually not exceptionally high – it can be thought of as simply a small pressure vessel containing (in our case) 800 psi hot gas. During the development of Merlin, we saw several of what we refer to as RUD (rapid unscheduled disassembly) events and no fragments have ever penetrated more than 2mm of aluminum. Also, the direction of fragments is in a shallow downward cone away from the vehicle.

As additional measures of protection, all propellant and pneumatic lines have either pre-valves or check valves nested up high in the thrust structure. If anything happens to the engine, the flight computer is able to cut off all propellant and pressurant flow immediately.

Given all of the above, I really believe we have a stage that has considerably higher propulsion reliability than a single engine vehicle.

[MikeAtkinson]

A SpaceX update page from 2005 mentions that during Merlin development the company had witnessed a number of RUD events. (Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly). The update specifically mentions a chamber rupture, so, it seems likely that SpaceX has witnessed a similar event before during Merlin testing.

Interesting, though as it was in 2005 the RUDs must have been of Merlin-1A (or possibly Merlin-1B).