SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION

[Mark Max Q]

Just a quick note.

I've not had time to read hardly any of this thread, but I know a few people are of the "OMG, this is so many posts, I can't keep up and WHAT? Someone just said they aren't too pleased with SpaceX over the engine issue? Where do I write to seek compensation for this travesty of opinion...." opinion.

1) This is the forum of NSF. We can only moderate breach of rule posts, that are insulting, uncivil or just plain stupid.

2) We've gone through 370,000 uniques in the space of three days on the forum. Most are guests, but I've only had one e-mail and eight report to moderator notifications for the SpaceX threads in relation to breach of rules.

3) "But I bet you want more posts, as that equates to more advertising revenue". Nope. Ad revenue on the forum is loose change. Having servers for a database this size (huge) and keeping it up and solid (Bandwidth) is ENTIRELY due to the L2 revenue enabling us to afford the ultra hosting package we're on.

4) The vast majority of people here want a free - only moderated when required - discussion. This is a big site, with a lot of active posters, so that's why this one is 76 pages long and over 150,000 views. Guess what, people have different opinions.

5) You are going to get some people - especially new members - who may not be as informed as others. Treat that as an opportunity to educate them, in a friendly manner. It may take a few posts before it sinks in, but do not act surprised seeing posts from such "less informed" people, because if you are, then you're probably new to the internet! Guess what, most of us were "less informed" when we first started posting, especially me (you should have seen some of my first posts about shuttle on other forums back in the days of dail up! "Do the SRBs get their fuel from the ET too?" Oh lordy! )

6) This is still a very clean forum. Anyone remember the dark days of the now-dead SDC forum post Columbia? That was not good, not good at all. We'll never allow that to happen here.

7) If you do not enjoy these open discussion threads, feel free to stick to the news site, and the update threads.

8 ) Remember, we could very easily run the site as a news site with L2 and read only live update threads. It'd sure be a lot cheaper on my server costs, but I strongly believe in an interactive site. All our regular updaters, space industry members who help with technical questions, even all our writers came from being a new member posting on here - and I strongly believe our community is excellent.

As you were.

That's brilliant. Amazing how this site has grown, but how hands on you still are.

Also, if people are just after hard facts, data, space industry people discussing the facts and data, plus a lot of cool stuff, then get L2. I don't know what I'd do with out it, and the side benefit is the post launch area on L2 for CRS-1 is four pages, with quality info.

[Lurker Steve]

That would be quite a short stripper!

Ed made a good point, though. This was the earliest engine-out that resulted in the payload reaching orbit. That's a pretty effective demonstration, and if SpaceX plays their cards right, could really lower their insurance costs for commercial sats.

I'm pretty sure that the insurance costs for secondaries is going up after this mission. Even though the primary was successfully delivered to it's destination, future payloads might not be so lucky. You have to look at how close the payload comes to the full capacity of the launcher. The insurance guys are going to set their rates how they wish.

[Norm38]

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

The HTV has a Japanese flag on the back wall.  What's the difference?

[Jim]

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

The HTV has a Japanese flag on the back wall.  What's the difference?

Intuitively obvious to the casual observer.

[Garrett]

I'm pretty sure that the insurance costs for secondaries is going up after this mission. Even though the primary was successfully delivered to it's destination, future payloads might not be so lucky. You have to look at how close the payload comes to the full capacity of the launcher. The insurance guys are going to set their rates how they wish.

This was only the fourth flight of a new LV. And it worked. That's one more data point on a short list of data points for the insurer. For all we know, insurance rates might decrease because flight heritage for the F9 increased by 33%.

Also, the failure to get the Orbcomm sat to its intended orbit was also largely due to strict requirements by NASA to avoid any potential accidents with the ISS. Those requirements were based on in-depth analysis coupled with Monte-Carlo simulations that took this specific secondary payload into account. Future secondaries will have different requirements so insurance companies will, I presume, calculate their premiums on a case-by-case basis.

[Ben the Space Brit]

I understand that the vehicle will remain berthed until 10/28.  Given the great activity in Harmony and Dragon-1, I would imagine most of the up-mass cargo has been transferred already.  Is the unberth/return date based on traffic control around the station or is it a case that some of the items for return won't be ready for removal from their operational locations and transfer to the Dragon until then?

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

The HTV has a Japanese flag on the back wall.  What's the difference?

Intuitively obvious to the casual observer.

The same casual observer wouldn't care about the 'breach of protocol'.  My advice Jim is to forget about it.  In the long run, it doesn't matter.

[kevin-rf]

Also, the failure to get the Orbcomm sat to its intended orbit was also largely due to strict requirements by NASA to avoid any potential accidents with the ISS.

If you read the weasel words, there was only a 95% chance of it ending up in the planned orbit. So there is a 5% chance it would have ended up in a lower than planned orbit. Not as low as the final orbit, but still slightly short of it's final planned orbit.

Now if the dragon had been a little lighter, maybe sans an undeclared poster, there might have been enough LOX to carry out the secondary mission

[Comga]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

If it's such a breach of protocol, what about Williams' reaction of posting it in the background during a video interview? 

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30059.msg964891#msg964891

It seems the poster was appreciated, although perhaps not as much as the ice cream.  It also looked like a returned favor, after the signed photo that was send down in the COTS-2+ Dragon.  This "casual observer" sees it as very equivalent to the Japanese flag.  Why the strong reaction?

[Comga]

Also, the failure to get the Orbcomm sat to its intended orbit was also largely due to strict requirements by NASA to avoid any potential accidents with the ISS.

If you read the weasel words, there was only a 95% chance of it ending up in the planned orbit. So there is a 5% chance it would have ended up in a lower than planned orbit. Not as low as the final orbit, but still slightly short of it's final planned orbit.

Now if the dragon had been a little lighter, maybe sans an undeclared poster, there might have been enough LOX to carry out the secondary mission

As I read it, there was a 95% probability that there was sufficient liquid Oxygen to carry out the planned maneuvers.  That must have included a deorbit burn to dispose of the second stage.  NASA would not want the second stage crossing the oribit of the ISS.  That says that there was certainly enough oxidizer to put the Orbcomm satellite in the target orbit.

So I agree with Garrett.

[woods170]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

If it's such a breach of protocol, what about Williams' reaction of posting it in the background during a video interview? 

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30059.msg964891#msg964891

It seems the poster was appreciated, although perhaps not as much as the ice cream.  It also looked like a returned favor, after the signed photo that was send down in the COTS-2+ Dragon.  This "casual observer" sees it as very equivalent to the Japanese flag.  Why the strong reaction?

I wager a guess, probably to be nuanced by Jim himself. But I'll give it a try anyway:
Jim is likely projecting his own experiences with protocols and rules in working cargo missions to ISS, on this new-space company. Probably, in his opinion, anything out of line with the set of rules he is used to, is a no no.

Trouble is, Jim doesn't work for SpaceX. So, he may not be fully aware of exactly what rules and protocols were set in the working relationship between SpaceX and NASA. He also may not be aware of any last-minute arrangements between SpaceX and NASA that might allow such 'unlisted' items as posters and ice-cream to be brought on-board.

But, the above is me just guessing.

[Chris-A]

I think the documentation from a old planing guide lists only one available restart for MVac.

[jabe]

curious
at end of mission..can they delay at all in case weather is bad or rough waters in landing zone?
jb

[joertexas]

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

The HTV has a Japanese flag on the back wall.  What's the difference?

Intuitively obvious to the casual observer.

I'll take a swing at this and state that the difference is the flag wasn't hidden.

JR

[Jim]

  This "casual observer" sees it as very equivalent to the Japanese flag. 

The Japanese flag was likely a JAXA approved idea and not smuggled onboard.

[Jim]

SpaceX and NASA that might allow such 'unlisted' items as posters and ice-cream to be brought on-board.

But, the above is me just guessing.

Ice cream was flown on Spacehab missions and it was NASA provided.

[Jim]

Jim is likely projecting his own experiences with protocols and rules in working cargo missions to ISS, on this new-space company.

Spacehab was a new space company too

[Lars_J]

Just ignore Jim. Whenever a SpaceX mission flies, he goes into über-cranky mode, finding faults everywhere. He can't help it.

[Robotbeat]

Just ignore Jim. Whenever a SpaceX mission flies, he goes into über-cranky mode, finding faults everywhere. He can't help it.

Not always, but even when he is cranky, really who cares. He more than makes up for it in the free education he provides us!

[Space Pete]

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

The first attached image shows a poster that the Japanese teams flew on HTV-2 in 2011, made up of a montage of the faces of all those who worked on the vehicle.

The second attached image shows photos of mission trainers (faces blurred by me) that were flown on the Shuttle mid-deck ergometer.

Do you disagree with these Jim?

[Tampabayrays]

Just ignore Jim. Whenever a SpaceX mission flies, he goes into über-cranky mode, finding faults everywhere. He can't help it.

Not always, but even when he is cranky, really who cares. He more than makes up for it in the free education he provides us!

I more than agree. I've lurked on the forums for years and always appreciate when I find one of Jim's posts on a topic; thanks so much for your contributions, Jim!