SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon CRS SpX-1 MISSION GENERAL DISCUSSION

[yg1968]

I don't agree with Jim on flight computers.

What specifically?. On the issue of whether branches are possible (or only a go or no-go response is possible)?

[grythumn]

On the Missions thread, Jim indicated belief that the poster sent up in the Dragon was 'unprofessional'.  Guess it could be viewed in that light however SpaceX has a bit of a rep' for being shall we say, unconventional so I'd say it's probably not terribly unexpected and 'unprofessional' is a bit OTT.  They've demonstrated total professionalism in the technical and management aspects of the program.  A little leeway is not really asking too much, surely.

Weren't there stories about engineers and Astronauts sneaking all sorts of things up into the Apollo capsules? Specifically, a ceramic tile with a reduced Warhol drawing in the mylar insulation, and several playboy pictures in the checklists and in a locker on Apollo 12?

-Bob

[mr. mark]

ah.....I'm a little late to the conversation but, what poster?

[Galactic Penguin SST]

ah.....I'm a little late to the conversation but, what poster?

A poster retrieved from inside Dragon!

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30059.0;attach=462654

[mr. mark]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

[meekGee]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

You'd think the NASA PAO cried for the humanity, or the astronauts released the dragon in protest.

You'd think SpaceX hid a stripper in the ice cream box.

Only one person, not in any official capacity, and in another thread, complained about it.   So it was hashed over there, transferred over here, and has now been discussed in some 20 (21) posts. 

What - we've already figured out the engine incident and aftermath?

[simonbp]

That would be quite a short stripper!

Ed made a good point, though. This was the earliest engine-out that resulted in the payload reaching orbit. That's a pretty effective demonstration, and if SpaceX plays their cards right, could really lower their insurance costs for commercial sats.

[Antares]

I don't agree with Jim on flight computers.

What specifically?. On the issue of whether branches are possible (or only a go or no-go response is possible)?

I think an alternate burn could've been implemented that kept Orbcomm beneath ISS, even with the health check that occurred - and failed; though at some point the idealized brevity that GN&C analyzes collides with the reality of impulse (and error bands) that Propulsion provides.

In general, flight computers are limited by their available memory.  They can branch go/no-go logic within that space, until it's filled.  If-then-else logic is not hard to implement.  It's the human management behind it in the months and weeks before liftoff that ensures all possible outcomes will fit into the onboard logic.

[sdsds]

This press release from SpaceX debunks a lot of the speculation and "educated" guesses on this thread.

Indeed! On my scale of 1 to 10 this press release gets an 8.^* They are doing really well with their press releases, for which we fans -- and other followers -- should be grateful. There's really very little "kremlinology" required here!

----
(* In my apparently incomprehensible system that's 5 for completeness, one more for promptness, one more for 95/99% stats, one more for oxidizer low. No demerits!)

+1

[mr. mark]

I've been going through all the posts for a couple of hours now as far as the engine out, there was some negative over reaction as well as some super fan over enthusiasm. The answer, of course, is somewhere in the middle. Clearly, the mission has stumbled but has completed it's primary goal at least so far. SpaceX and NASA will review the engine out and make the necessary changes. NASA seems happy with SpaceX's Dragon CRS-1 flight. SpaceX is winning ugly on this one.   

[input~2]

The 6 in-orbit objects have now been identified as follows:

38846     DRAGON CRS-1     2012-054A     
38847     ORBCOMM OG2     2012-054B
38848     FALCON 9 R/B     2012-054C
38849     DRAGON CRS-1 DEB     2012-054D
38850     DRAGON CRS-1 DEB     2012-054E
38851     DRAGON CRS-1 DEB     2012-054F

[john smith 19]

stacking up these micro engines, we got lots and lots of engine out capability. 

In *theory* the idea is excellent. T/W of a 1000:1

However you might like to check the conclusion of the report. They only got it to run at 1/10 planned chamber pressure. which is one of the key things needed to give good efficiency at this scale.

The pumps are *not* micro either. At least not yet. 

Returning to the core topic of this thread...

[john smith 19]

All sensor and telemetry data aside, it would be interesting if they could salvage the engines and have a look at what occurred directly…

Good idea.

IIRC they've done this in the past. Does anyone know if Spacex would know where the stage will re-enter well enough to do it? I doubt it was a *planned* task for this mission but sounds like a good use of their resources.

[Juggernaut]

... and meanwhile it seems Orbcomm won't survive... ST reports that everything launched with F9 except Dragon will decay by end of today..

Orbcomm OG2, which they have been identified with ID 38847, has been re-entered in atmosphere already yesterday (2012-10-10 06:19:00 GMT)..   

I guess Orbcomm Inc. can't consider this a succesfull launch, isn't?

[douglas100]

All sensor and telemetry data aside, it would be interesting if they could salvage the engines and have a look at what occurred directly…

Good idea.

IIRC they've done this in the past. Does anyone know if Spacex would know where the stage will re-enter well enough to do it? I doubt it was a *planned* task for this mission but sounds like a good use of their resources.

When did they recover Merlin engine(s) in the past? Can you provide a reference?

I think trying to recover the engine in question from this flight would be very difficult, expensive and not a good use of their resources. They should be able to establish the cause from telemetry and possibly from ground testing.

[Chris Bergin]

Just a quick note.

I've not had time to read hardly any of this thread, but I know a few people are of the "OMG, this is so many posts, I can't keep up and WHAT? Someone just said they aren't too pleased with SpaceX over the engine issue? Where do I write to seek compensation for this travesty of opinion...." opinion.

1) This is the forum of NSF. We can only moderate breach of rule posts, that are insulting, uncivil or just plain stupid.

2) We've gone through 370,000 uniques in the space of three days on the forum. Most are guests, but I've only had one e-mail and eight report to moderator notifications for the SpaceX threads in relation to breach of rules.

3) "But I bet you want more posts, as that equates to more advertising revenue". Nope. Ad revenue on the forum is loose change. Having servers for a database this size (huge) and keeping it up and solid (Bandwidth) is ENTIRELY due to the L2 revenue enabling us to afford the ultra hosting package we're on.

4) The vast majority of people here want a free - only moderated when required - discussion. This is a big site, with a lot of active posters, so that's why this one is 76 pages long and over 150,000 views. Guess what, people have different opinions.

5) You are going to get some people - especially new members - who may not be as informed as others. Treat that as an opportunity to educate them, in a friendly manner. It may take a few posts before it sinks in, but do not act surprised seeing posts from such "less informed" people, because if you are, then you're probably new to the internet! Guess what, most of us were "less informed" when we first started posting, especially me (you should have seen some of my first posts about shuttle on other forums back in the days of dail up! "Do the SRBs get their fuel from the ET too?" Oh lordy! )

6) This is still a very clean forum. Anyone remember the dark days of the now-dead SDC forum post Columbia? That was not good, not good at all. We'll never allow that to happen here.

7) If you do not enjoy these open discussion threads, feel free to stick to the news site, and the update threads.

8 ) Remember, we could very easily run the site as a news site with L2 and read only live update threads. It'd sure be a lot cheaper on my server costs, but I strongly believe in an interactive site. All our regular updaters, space industry members who help with technical questions, even all our writers came from being a new member posting on here - and I strongly believe our community is excellent.

As you were.

[Jim]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

[JBF]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

Does anyone know the contents of the Official Flight Kit? It could easily have been part of that.

[Garrett]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

Oh Nooo! The protocol has been breached!! Red alert!

At least Sunita knew what to think of the protocol: she called back joyfully to MCC saying they had new friends and stuck the poster on the ISS wall straight away
Sometimes professionalism is knowing when not to follow protocol.

The SpaceX folk are just as part of the great human adventure to space as the NASA folk. It's a shame that protocols have inhibited the folks at Astrium and Boeing from expressing their passion for that adventure.

[woods170]

What's wrong with that, engineers and staff who are proud of their work? People seem to have to try to complain about even the small stuff. This is nonsense.

It isn't nonsense, it is a breach of protocol.  Does MHI do it on HTV, Astrium on ATV or did Boeing on MPLM?  Let the work do the talking and don't smuggle a picture of yourself onboard.

Question: are you 100% certain of the fact that the presence of this poster on-board Dragon was not approved by NASA prior to lift-off?

Another question: You stated that this poster was not on the manifest. Do you have access to the official flight manifest? (and I don't mean the publically available one, because that one is not official, it's the PAO version).