Excalibur Almaz announces lunar plans

[Jason1701]

I think people doubt Excalibur's capability much more than they doubt the market's demand.

What "people"?

Anyone (such as myself) who don't think they can/will pull this off.

[FinalFrontier]

I doubt the demand and the capability.

Neither exist.

[Danderman]

It doesn't really matter what we think in the end, but rather whether EA can secure investors and customers. Its entirely possible that their system is workable, but unfundable, or the reverse ( ). We don't know.

Time will tell.

[Warren Platts]

I doubt the demand and the capability.

Neither exist.

Roscosmos said at the GlobEx conference that it wants to build a permanent Lunar base. Almaz could fit into those plans. They don't need to depend on space tourism.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_05_23_2012_p05-01-460939.xml

[Robotbeat]

The demand may exist. Money is just fun coupons. You can't take it with you when you die, and we already know there are billionaires who like space and are willing to spend a lot of money on it.

It's the capability (and the safety) that is in question.  Have to prove those before you have any chance about demand.

[QuantumG]

If anybody wants to have an intelligent conversation about the current state and future plans Excalibur Almaz, I'm all ears.

Okay, any idea when they going to fly something or someone?

[FinalFrontier]

I doubt the demand and the capability.

Neither exist.

Roscosmos said at the GlobEx conference that it wants to build a permanent Lunar base. Almaz could fit into those plans. They don't need to depend on space tourism.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_05_23_2012_p05-01-460939.xml

That does not mean EA would be the provider.

[Danderman]

Roscosmos said at the GlobEx conference that it wants to build a permanent Lunar base. Almaz could fit into those plans. They don't need to depend on space tourism.

To be clear, the offer was for Russia to participate in an international lunar base program which translates into Russia building and flying stuff for which it is paid by other countries. This is all very unlikely to ever happen.

[simonbp]

"I also like to live dangerously..."

Exactly.

If a believably safe company offer such a trip, I could see a market. But a company that has never launched anything and only own a bunch of Soviet military spacecraft leftovers is just not who I would trust to get me to (let alone back from) the Moon.

The Soviets never thought that the TKS VA was safe enough to put cosmonauts on. I agree.

[FinalFrontier]

Roscosmos said at the GlobEx conference that it wants to build a permanent Lunar base. Almaz could fit into those plans. They don't need to depend on space tourism.

To be clear, the offer was for Russia to participate in an international lunar base program which translates into Russia building and flying stuff for which it is paid by other countries. This is all very unlikely to ever happen.

Especially if you consider recent EuroZone economic problems and the direction the entire region appears to be heading as of late. Makes this almost a nonstarter at this point.

[Robert Thompson]

If I had the equipment Almaz has I'd quietly and promptly visit Bigelow's memoranda of understanding partners and see what deals can be made.

[Jim]

If I had the equipment Almaz has I'd quietly and promptly visit Bigelow's memoranda of understanding partners and see what deals can be made.

They wouldn't know who Bigelow's partners are.

[A_M_Swallow]

{snip}
Yeah, I seriously doubt they're gunna have a cannon on this Almaz!

A spacecraft with a cannon.  Now that points to a possible market that people have not suggested before - big game hunters.

You have hunted lion.
You have hunted elephant.
You want to hunt something new.
Be the first of your friends to hunt spy satellite.
 

[manboy]

Until they have the tooling to build more capsules, it doesn't seem like they have a business case.

[Blackstar]

Thanks for posting the photos, Dave.

You're welcome.

[Danderman]

"I also like to live dangerously..."

The Soviets never thought that the TKS VA was safe enough to put cosmonauts on. I agree.

VA capsules have flown in space with people inside them.

[simonbp]

VA capsules have flown in space with people inside them.

Well, so has Dragon now. And ATV for that matter, but I'm not going to ride it back to Earth.

The Soviets spent huge amounts of money developing the TKS VA, but never saw fit to actually put people in in anything more than an emergency capacity. If it were really as superior as people on the internet like to claim, it would have been used for its intended purpose and launched manned (either with an FGB on Proton or with a smaller service module on a R-7). But it never was, and the "inferior" Soyuz was used instead. That tells me that there was some underlying safety issue that caused them to no trust Merkur.

[malenfant]

VA capsules have flown in space with people inside them.

Well, so has Dragon now. And ATV for that matter, but I'm not going to ride it back to Earth.

The Soviets spent huge amounts of money developing the TKS VA, but never saw fit to actually put people in in anything more than an emergency capacity. If it were really as superior as people on the internet like to claim, it would have been used for its intended purpose and launched manned (either with an FGB on Proton or with a smaller service module on a R-7). But it never was, and the "inferior" Soyuz was used instead. That tells me that there was some underlying safety issue that caused them to no trust Merkur.

The civilian station program effectively belonged to energia.

It's not surprising that Mishin and Glushko each prefered to use OKB-1's in house Soyuz vehicle rather than give any more business than that of the competition at Chelomei's bureau.  It's likely a simple case of "Not invented here."

I'm not really arguing that Almaz/TKS was a good project; just that it's abandonment does not prove that it was bad.

[Blackstar]

If it were really as superior as people on the internet like to claim

Who is claiming it was "superior"?

The Soviets ended up with two manned capsules and only needed one. There could have been lots of reasons not to continue using the TKS, including budget, politics, bureaucratic infighting, and a simple lack of requirement. No need to denigrate the vehicle.

[JBF]

I wonder what condition everything is in after all these years.