Excalibur Almaz announces lunar plans

[Blackstar]

They've decided that they cannot make money launching humans to LEO, so instead they are going to send them to the Moon.

http://www.excaliburalmaz.com/0201_Lunar.html

Images taken from their presentation at ISDC this afternoon.

[Blackstar]

More images.

[Blackstar]

Last set.

[Blackstar]

Here is their Lunar Cycler.

[QuantumG]

The only "lunar cycler" orbits I've seen are in the attached paper. If they're doing that, great, if not I'd like to know if they're just misusing the term.

[riney]

So they've bought two Salyut spaceframes and four vintage re-entry vehicles. Are these guys nuts (and overly funded!), or is there a chance these can be made flyable?

--riney

[Jim]

So they've bought two Salyut spaceframes and four vintage re-entry vehicles. Are these guys nuts (and overly funded!), or is there a chance these can be made flyable?

--riney

First off we need to set the record straight. They DID NOT purchase two Salyut spaceframes. They purchased two Almaz spaceframes. Salyuts were altered Almaz spaceframes.

A distinction without a difference

[QuantumG]

A distinction without a difference

Hey look, I agree with Jim on something..

Yeah, I seriously doubt they're gunna have a cannon on this Almaz!

[Jorge]

They've decided that they cannot make money launching humans to LEO, so instead they are going to send them to the Moon.

The sound of a second shoe dropping.

[QuantumG]

They've decided that they cannot make money launching humans to LEO, so instead they are going to send them to the Moon.

The sound of a second shoe dropping.

Maybe they figured out that they have to actually fly before anyone will pay them.. at least more than deposits.. it seems all space tourism startups have to learn this the hard way.

Unfortunately, when they do finally learn, they go looking for someone to pay them for powerpoint instead of actually flying.

[Jorge]

They've decided that they cannot make money launching humans to LEO, so instead they are going to send them to the Moon.

The sound of a second shoe dropping.

Maybe they figured out that they have to actually fly before anyone will pay them.. at least more than deposits.. it seems all space tourism startups have to learn this the hard way.

Maybe they also figured out they need to have considerable US domestic content to get considered for US funding under CCP. (Their CCDev-2 Space Act Agreement was unfunded).

[QuantumG]

Maybe they also figured out they need to have considerable US domestic content to get considered for US funding under CCP. (Their CCDev-2 Space Act Agreement was unfunded).

Yeah, I was hoping they might actually have a business plan that didn't involve government funding.

Almost three years since Guy Laliberté flew, you'd think they could find three participants to fill their spacecraft.

[Lars_J]

They've decided that they cannot make money launching humans to LEO, so instead they are going to send them to the Moon.

This announcement just exposed them as delusional. IMO. Is *anyone* taking them seriously at this point?

This is an order of magnitude more far-fetched than the "Soyuz around the moon" - and that was already extremely unlikely ever to happen.

[Blackstar]

So they've bought two Salyut spaceframes and four vintage re-entry vehicles. Are these guys nuts (and overly funded!), or is there a chance these can be made flyable?

They indicated that they hired Futron to do a study and that study indicates that there are 29 people who might pay $100 million for a trip to the Moon. That is apparently more than those willing to pay the current price point--$62 million--for a flight to LEO.

I will note that Constellation Services International proposed a mission around the Moon in 2004. And Space Adventures proposed a similar mission in 2005. It's been eight years and nobody has publicly signed up for one yet.

http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/Spotlights/2006/index2006-11-01.html

[FinalFrontier]

Maybe they also figured out they need to have considerable US domestic content to get considered for US funding under CCP. (Their CCDev-2 Space Act Agreement was unfunded).

Yeah, I was hoping they might actually have a business plan that didn't involve government funding.

Almost three years since Guy Laliberté flew, you'd think they could find three participants to fill their spacecraft.

Have to agree with yours and Jim's comments so far here.

I really don't see the value or the point in this proposal, they haven't really done anything yet except power-points, so why announce your going to the moon when you haven't even made orbit yet?

Don't see the point in this. And I rather don't think any of this stuff will ever fly if this company believes that announcing BEO missions before even flying one LEO mission is a good idea. 

Not to mention the hardware and technical challenges involved.... or the impracticality.

[Jason1701]

So they've bought two Salyut spaceframes and four vintage re-entry vehicles. Are these guys nuts (and overly funded!), or is there a chance these can be made flyable?

They indicated that they hired Futron to do a study and that study indicates that there are 29 people who might pay $100 million for a trip to the Moon. That is apparently more than those willing to pay the current price point--$62 million--for a flight to LEO.

I will note that Constellation Services International proposed a mission around the Moon in 2004. And Space Adventures proposed a similar mission in 2005. It's been eight years and nobody has publicly signed up for one yet.

http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/Spotlights/2006/index2006-11-01.html

I think people doubt Excalibur's capability much more than they doubt the market's demand.

[Danderman]

I will note that Constellation Services International proposed a mission around the Moon in 2004. And Space Adventures proposed a similar mission in 2005. It's been eight years and nobody has publicly signed up for one yet.

http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/Spotlights/2006/index2006-11-01.html

Space Adventures is hinting that they might have 2 customers Real Soon Now, which is what they require for a mission.

I should note that CSI did not suggest that we were looking for customers, we just disclosed the concept as a way for somebody to fly around the Moon affordably.

Last note is that as time passes, Soyuz is becoming more capable so some presumed "show stoppers" from 2004 have been obviated.

[QuantumG]

Space Adventures is hinting that they might have 2 customers Real Soon Now, which is what they require for a mission.

I think Blackstar's point is that the one customer Space Adventures claims they have for the translunar flight has not identified himself/herself yet.

Going from a masked one to 29 is a pretty big jump.. but one I'd believe if it was announced by someone who is actually flying.

[Blackstar]

I think people doubt Excalibur's capability much more than they doubt the market's demand.

What "people"?

[Robert Thompson]

"I also like to live dangerously..."