OMG it's the SpaceX Party Thread!

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

When Dragon lands, only Russia, the US and SpaceX will have had a vehicle go to the ISS and return.
That is an exclusive club that ULA PWR are not members of.
Who's making noise now?

Spacex is not launching spacecraft that are of national importance yet.  So going to the ISS is not worth to ULA/RWR to make noise over.

ULA and PWR don't make any spacecraft, nationally important or otherwise.

ULA/Boeing would love to build and operate cryo depots and a cryo lunar lander based on ACES. But the business case still eludes them.

[Jim]

When Dragon lands, only Russia, the US and SpaceX will have had a vehicle go to the ISS and return.
That is an exclusive club that ULA PWR are not members of.
Who's making noise now?

Spacex is not launching spacecraft that are of national importance yet.  So going to the ISS is not worth to ULA/RWR to make noise over.

ULA and PWR don't make any spacecraft, nationally important or otherwise.

And neither does Apple, GM, IBM, etc.  What is your point?

The comparison is about launch vehicles and flying.

[Jim]

Jim I really wish you'd post longer responses. You're clearly one of the most knowledgable people on here and you always have interesting things to say but I need to spend a lot of time reading tea leaves. Not so much this post but in general, comparing SpaceX fans to American Idol fans and things like that. Thanks anyway, back to lurking. 

Here is a longer comment.

Those SpaceX fans, who think that this flight as equivalent Apollo 11 and STS-1, are those who I compare to American Idol fans.  This achievement, which is no where close to those two mission, still warrants acknowledgement and there is a rightful place in the NASM for a Dragon capsule.  Much like SS1, this mission is a milestone, but it is not an major one. 

There have been many before along these lines.
First commercial US spacecraft launched -   WESTAR 1
First commercial US  launch -  Delta 187

Also, Dragon was not the first commercial logistics carrier to visit the ISS, that honor goes to Spacehab in 1999.  And it was developed completely with private money. There was no NASA "COTS" money for it.

The current mission will be a footnote in history, to be taken over by other milestones much like what happened to the ones mentioned above.  If you don't believe me, go look in the NASM at all the commercial aviation firsts and see which ones you know. 

[tigerade]

Jim I really wish you'd post longer responses. You're clearly one of the most knowledgable people on here and you always have interesting things to say but I need to spend a lot of time reading tea leaves. Not so much this post but in general, comparing SpaceX fans to American Idol fans and things like that. Thanks anyway, back to lurking. 

Those SpaceX fans, who think that this flight as equivalent Apollo 11 and STS-1, are those who I compare to American Idol fans.  This achievement, which is no where close to those two mission, still warrants acknowledgement and there is a rightful place in the NASM for a Dragon capsule.  Much like SS1, this mission is a milestone, but it is not an major one. 

For those of us in our 20's, we weren't alive to see Apollo or STS-1.  We've only read about that in books and watched videos of it long after the fact.  In the context of our lives, what SpaceX is doing is our Apollo.

[JBF]

Also, Dragon was not the first commercial logistics carrier to visit the ISS, that honor goes to Spacehab in 1999.  And it was developed completely with private money. There was no NASA "COTS" money for it.

The current mission will be a footnote in history, to be taken over by other milestones much like what happened to the ones mentioned above.  If you don't believe me, go look in the NASM at all the commercial aviation firsts and see which ones you know. 

This is going into the weeds, but I'd argue that spacehab was not an independent vehicle as it was dependent on the shuttle.

[Jim]

  In the context of our lives, what SpaceX is doing is our Apollo.

nowhere close to the impact of Apollo or shuttle.

[Jim]

This is going into the weeds, but I'd argue that spacehab was not an independent vehicle as it was dependent on the shuttle.

That doesn't matter, Dragon isn't a technical achievement.
Spacehab used the same words in its achievements as Spacex.

[tigerade]

  In the context of our lives, what SpaceX is doing is our Apollo.

nowhere close to the impact of Apollo or shuttle.

True, but its better that just seeing the retirement of the Shuttle and cancellation of Constellation.  I would like to think that our space program is in something other than a perpetual decline.

[rickl]

For those of us in our 20's, we weren't alive to see Apollo or STS-1.  We've only read about that in books and watched videos of it long after the fact.  In the context of our lives, what SpaceX is doing is our Apollo.

I'm in my 50s, and I'm old enough to remember playing hooky from school to watch Gemini launches.  I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing for Apollo 11, and I remained glued to the TV set for the rest of the Apollo missions.

I haven't been this excited about spaceflight since the 1970s.

I remember STS-1, but my excitement was tempered by the fact that NASA had no plans to return to the Moon.  The Shuttle was a magnificent machine, but the system was not readily upgradable.  It's not like you could bolt on a couple more SRBs and fly it to Mars.

By contrast, SpaceX has some very ambitious plans for future Falcon and Dragon upgrades. 

This flight was just the beginning, and that's what has me so excited.

[edkyle99]

We need one of those eye doctor chart thingies, the one used to make side by side comparisons.

You know.  Is COTS 2/3 more, or less historic than X?

X could be Apollo 11 (for which most would agree the answer is NO), or Voyager 1/2 (NO), or Viking 1/2 (NO), or Gemini 2 (Hmmmm), or ATV 1 (Hmmmmm), or HTV 1 (Hmmmm) and so on. 

 - Ed Kyle

[Jim]

I remember STS-1, but my excitement was tempered by the fact that NASA had no plans to return to the Moon.  The Shuttle was a magnificent machine, but the system was not readily upgradable.  It's not like you could bolt on a couple more SRBs and fly it to Mars.

By contrast, SpaceX has some very ambitious plans for future Falcon and Dragon upgrades. 

Huh?   Upgradeable?  Not needed for lunar and Mars missions.  See ISS construction. 

Look at all the books from the 70's and 80's, they were full of space settlements, lunar bases, etc using the shuttle. 

Look at all the books from the 60's too.  Gatland and Bono's books.  Everybody had grandiose plans. 

There is no guarantee that it will still happen or that Spacex will even lead the way.

[kirghizstan]

  In the context of our lives, what SpaceX is doing is our Apollo.

nowhere close to the impact of Apollo or shuttle.

As someone in my early 30s this is my Apollo as well.  My first memory of shuttle was watching challenger so shuttle has been great but there has never been that hope due to the baggage.  This gives us something that is inspirational obviously not Apollo but the inspiration and hope that we've never had about spaceflight in our lifetimes.

[tigerade]

X could be Apollo 11 (for which most would agree the answer is NO), or Voyager 1/2 (NO), or Viking 1/2 (NO), or Gemini 2 (Hmmmm), or ATV 1 (Hmmmmm), or HTV 1 (Hmmmm) and so on. 

It's the promise of a bright future for spaceflight that has people more excited.  No offense to ATV and HTV, they are great vehicles, but we see the cargo missions of SpaceX to be stepping stones to eventual manned flight and perhaps Mars missions in the distant future.  I know that SpaceX is a long way away from manned flight, and very, very far from Mars flight.  However, you have to admit the excitement of the idea is pretty intoxicating.   

Speaking of which, since this is a party thread.. would you and Jim like a beverage?  Kool aid perhaps?  It's quite tasty. 

[wolfpack]

Spacex is not launching spacecraft that are of national importance yet.  So going to the ISS is not worth to ULA/RWR to make noise over.

Would you agree that Crew Dragon* would be of national importance?


* yes, I realize Crew Dragon does not, and may never, exist or fly.

[Jim]

Where you guys for the first launch of Delta IV and Atlas V? No different than Falcon 9.  The companies spent 2.5 billion and the gov't 1 billion, so the cost sharing was similar.  Everybody was hopped up about the internet in the sky and all the launches.

[joek]

Kinda reminds me of watching friends debating sports after a few beers...

Is it the game, the team, or the player?  For me it's the game; teams and players come and go, and with few exceptions, what was historic one day is a footnote the next.

[Jim]

Kinda reminds me of watching friends debating sports after a few beers...

Is it the game, the team, or the player?  For me it's the game; teams and players come and go, and with few exceptions, what was historic one day is a footnote the next.

good post

[peter-b]

Ah, "no-fun-allowed Jim" can always be relied upon to precipitate heavily on any parade taking place on NSF. 

In my opinion, Elon Musk has the makings of the Isambard Kingdom Brunel of the space age, between PayPal, Solar City, Tesla and SpaceX. And it would be reasonable to describe him as a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist too.  Other people talk a very good talk about green power, low-carbon transport and interplanetary space travel; Elon walks the walk to the extent of investing his last his dollar in his startups if he thinks it necessary. It's quite refreshing. I have absolutely no qualms about expressing my heartfelt support for a company that is, by all appearances, united in commitment to a vision of mankind settling the solar system.

To me, Dragon berthing with the ISS is not an "Apollo 11 moment". It is more like Carpenter's Aurora 7 flight. People had flown to orbit before, in the USA and USSR. The Redstone launcher didn't include any particularly groundbreaking new technology, having been well proven in the PGM-11 programme. Even the capsule was already flight proven by Glenn. But Carpenter's flight was important because, in cementing the capability of the Gemini capsule to sustain manned orbital flight and safely return, it opened the door to the continuation of the US manned programme and the realisation of Werner von Braun's vision of man on the moon. Similarly, Dragon's success last week validates SpaceX's credibility as a company designing, constructing and operating both launchers and spacecraft, and in doing so, brings the company's stated goal of "making mankind multiplanetary" a very big step closer.

For me, that is a very big deal indeed.

[oiorionsbelt]

When Dragon lands, only Russia, the US and SpaceX will have had a vehicle go to the ISS and return.
That is an exclusive club that ULA PWR are not members of.
Who's making noise now?

Spacex is not launching spacecraft that are of national importance yet.  So going to the ISS is not worth to ULA/RWR to make noise over.

ULA and PWR don't make any spacecraft, nationally important or otherwise.

And neither does Apple, GM, IBM, etc.  What is your point?

The comparison is about launch vehicles and flying.

My point is that as far as launch vehicles and flying are concerned, SpaceX as a company, is now doing things that as a company ULA and PWR cannot do.

Edit to add:    If they return successfully, they will have a capability no other company anywhere other than the Russians have.
PS I know the Chinese could IF they were allowed, but they are not.

[kirghizstan]

Kinda reminds me of watching friends debating sports after a few beers...

Is it the game, the team, or the player?  For me it's the game; teams and players come and go, and with few exceptions, what was historic one day is a footnote the next.

Completely agree and you will notice that I did not say spacex had me excited, it is all the activity combined.  So many crewed possibiliities including the possible SLS.