Author Topic: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery  (Read 11265 times)


Online DigitalMan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 457
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 1
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #1 on: 06/14/2006 03:34 AM »
I remember a while back when some family came to visit and wanted to go bird-watching taking them out around the cape and in one spot met a guard who offered to shoot some down for us!



Offline Flightstar

  • Lurking around OPF High Bay 2
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1870
  • KSC, Florida
  • Liked: 11
  • Likes Given: 5
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #3 on: 06/15/2006 09:48 PM »
Very good :)

Offline James Lowe1

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 847
  • New York City
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #4 on: 06/15/2006 11:51 PM »
If only those conversations were real ;)

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #5 on: 06/16/2006 03:59 AM »
Like a lot of my cartoons- it's a part of a series... stay tuned for Monday's strip.

Offline SimonShuttle

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1774
  • Manchester, England
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 40
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #6 on: 06/16/2006 11:09 AM »
I like this one, where they've got a Day Count for no foam shedding.

http://www.klydemorris.com/strips.cfm?strip_ID=1548

Offline GLS

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #7 on: 06/16/2006 11:28 AM »
Wouldn't it be easier to have astronauts gun down the birds while they're waiting to get in the vehicle???? Have them go to the top of the FSS, give them a riffle and bye bye birds!
GLS is go for main engine start!

Offline Sergi Manstov

  • NSF Russian Editor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #8 on: 06/16/2006 01:24 PM »
Love the ant!

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #9 on: 06/16/2006 01:52 PM »
Quote
SimonShuttle - 16/6/2006  3:56 AM

I like this one, where they've got a Day Count for no foam shedding.

http://www.klydemorris.com/strips.cfm?strip_ID=1548

Yeah, me too.  I know it's all in good fun and exagerrated, but seriously speaking... "contracting the Russians at $43million per head" is an "embarrassment"?  I think it is.  

First of all does NASA really pay 43mil per astro head on the Soyuz?  If so, they are a bunch of suckers/are stupid.  Couldn't booking through Space Adventures at $20mil save some of my taxed money?  Secondly, why is contracting the Russians an embarassment?  They have what NASA (apparently) needs and can't provide on its own, so there.  Thirdly, the ISS is a lost porkbarrel cause, and contracting anyone to fly to it could be considered an embarassment.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #10 on: 06/16/2006 02:22 PM »
And... just for the record, I have nothing against the Russians when I do my cartoons. Actually, I know a few who were there during the Soviet days and they are pretty cool folks with a terrific sense of humor. In fact they have a better sense of humor than NASA management gives them credit for. A while back one of my cartoons about the ISS was going to be e-mailed up to the station by a reader of mine in flight control, but at the last second it was blocked by a NASA manager who thought the Russian member of the crew would be "offended" by my use of the term "Rooski."

http://www.klydemorris.com/nasa26.cfm

I showed it to Russian friend of mine and he laughed his butt off. He thought the cartoon was funny, but he thought the fact that NASA management would believe that Russians are that thin skinned was even more funny.

NASA management... screwin' stuff up since John Glenn's reentry and still goin' strong.

Offline Sergi Manstov

  • NSF Russian Editor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #11 on: 06/16/2006 02:23 PM »
Wow, I find them funny! We have humor here! :)

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #12 on: 06/16/2006 02:36 PM »
Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  7:09 AM
... "Rooski."

As a patron of your cartoons, I think there are a few sides to this.  From my experience it's as offensive as the "C----" to a Chinese (also a translation from the Chinese for, well, "the Chinese"), or a "Negro"/"----" ("Black" in Spanish) to an African.  It's NOT offensive to the indigenous speaker, but I believe the meaning put into it on the American soil and in the common American speak is *meant* to be offensive at its core.  Anyway, I personally, avoid it.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #13 on: 06/16/2006 03:40 PM »
"Tense situations... a regular person spends his life avoiding tense situations. A repoman spends his time getting INTO tense situations." - RepoMan, the movie.

As an editorial cartoonist- I don't spend my time avoiding words that, when micro-managed to their core could, by someone, someday, in some cases, if read a cretain way, perhaps be considered offensive. If I did I'd be writing "Nancy and Sluggo" and I'd have several million fewer readers. Micro managing anything in an attempt to screen out all of the risk all of the time (as many in NASA have tried to do with the STS with things such as the birdstrike hold) leads to nothing but more micromanagement- which I, of course, will lampoon. The fact is, there are a lot of people out there who are waiting- spring loaded to see any word, hear any joke that will allow them to morph into the offended creature with a keyboard. My job... is to offend them so that everyone else can laugh.  I personally try and avoid at all costs ethnic slurs- of course it's a thin line that we all walk. Being of, what some would consider Polish bloodline, I find that no one avoids telling me any Polock joke they can muster up. I often act real offended and tell them I prefer to be addressed by my politically correct title... "Polock-American." Of course I've always been a smart a$$. In 1986 I was introduced to a Japanese girl at a college party as Wes the guy who draws Klyde Morris. In the introduction our host had said she was Japanese. I shook her hand and said "So... yer' Japanese?" She smiled and said "Yes." I acted angrey and shouted "Well I'm still a little pi$$ed off about the ARIZONA!!" Results: She and I have been very happily married for 18 years. Everyone... including NASA needs to keep their sense of humor.

Besides... how could I EVER resist something like a "Birdstrike Hold" it's such an easy target (just wait untill I start micromanaging it).

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #14 on: 06/16/2006 03:57 PM »
Right on.  Don't for a second think that I "lambast" you for anything you may have said or printed.  I just expressed my personal experiences and "feelings".  I just think that if we may say "rooskies or brits, or germs did this or that"  we may as well say "------ did some or other".  And it'd still be funny.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #15 on: 06/16/2006 04:42 PM »
Naaaaa... my angry persons tend to froth at the mouth and hiss a lot (I've had them coming at me since 1978)... you weren't frothing nearly enough.

Actually, many of my most dedicated readers are in the space field or are close followers of what takes place in spaceflight. Many of them are hooked on "The Program" cartoon.

Keep in mind, however, that I did get fired from one publication because someone these did not like the word "dominatrix." Of course NASA can't fire me for using the word Birdstrike... because I don't work for NASA...ha!... got 'em on that one.

Of course the best thing they could do about birdstrikes is exactly what everyone else in aviation does about it... nothing. Instead they're spending time and money removing food sources and writing new procedures to get rid of birds who pobably won't be there anyway. Yes sir... gotta micromanage that risk down.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #16 on: 06/16/2006 04:49 PM »
Had to take out the N word out of this thread, but I'm not a fan of politically correctness. So fill your boots ;)

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #17 on: 06/16/2006 04:53 PM »
Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  9:29 AM

Naaaaa... my angry persons tend to froth at the mouth and hiss a lot (I've had them coming at me since 1978)... you weren't frothing nearly enough.

Actually, many of my most dedicated readers are in the space field or are close followers of what takes place in spaceflight. Many of them are hooked on "The Program" cartoon.

Keep in mind, however, that I did get fired from one publication because someone these did not like the word "dominatrix." Of course NASA can't fire me for using the word Birdstrike... because I don't work for NASA...ha!... got 'em on that one.

Of course the best thing they could do about birdstrikes is exactly what everyone else in aviation does about it... nothing. Instead they're spending time and money removing food sources and writing new procedures to get rid of birds who pobably won't be there anyway. Yes sir... gotta micromanage that risk down.

Great.  I was just talking about the "integrity"  Whatever that means.  If one can say "rooski" referring to a specific nationality of a person, meaning of course a good old English term "Russian" (why not just use that), one can say "n----" referring to ...  I see no difference.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #18 on: 06/16/2006 05:03 PM »
Rooski to me is like calling an American a Yank....or an American calling me a Limey....not intended to be offensive.

Calling a French person a Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey, would be offensive ;)

However, the N word is racist.

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #19 on: 06/16/2006 05:04 PM »
Quote
lmike - 16/6/2006  9:40 AM

Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  9:29 AM

Naaaaa... my angry persons tend to froth at the mouth and hiss a lot (I've had them coming at me since 1978)... you weren't frothing nearly enough.

Actually, many of my most dedicated readers are in the space field or are close followers of what takes place in spaceflight. Many of them are hooked on "The Program" cartoon.

Keep in mind, however, that I did get fired from one publication because someone these did not like the word "dominatrix." Of course NASA can't fire me for using the word Birdstrike... because I don't work for NASA...ha!... got 'em on that one.

Of course the best thing they could do about birdstrikes is exactly what everyone else in aviation does about it... nothing. Instead they're spending time and money removing food sources and writing new procedures to get rid of birds who pobably won't be there anyway. Yes sir... gotta micromanage that risk down.

Great.  I was just talking about the "integrity"  Whatever that means.  If one can say "r----" referring to a specific nationality of a person, meaning of course a good old English term "Russian" (why not just use that), one can say "n----" referring to ...  I see no difference.

LOL!  Ok.  I get it.  Why is the "r---" not whited out, then?  As an American, I can tell you it's *meant* to be an offensive term :)

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #20 on: 06/16/2006 05:07 PM »
Quote
lmike - 16/6/2006  5:51 PM



LOL!  Ok.  I get it.  Why is the "rooski" not whited out, then?

Cause it's not racist ;) If you find it is, then I'll wipe it out......and you can stop posting it! ;)


Offline Sergi Manstov

  • NSF Russian Editor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #21 on: 06/16/2006 05:09 PM »
I've got zero problem with that word  :)  I could call Americans a lot worse ;)

Now, where is my Bushisms handbook ;)

Offline lmike

  • Elite Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #22 on: 06/16/2006 05:09 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 16/6/2006  9:50 AM

Rooski to me is like calling an American a Yank....

You are mistaken (f&7k if I know about the "yank" ;) ".  It's a term meant to depriciate and to degrade.  Trust me.  As much as the N word.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #23 on: 06/16/2006 06:25 PM »
I thought this thread was about birdstrike holds? :o

Offline kevin-rf

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8640
  • Overlooking the path Mary's little Lamb took..
  • Liked: 1111
  • Likes Given: 241
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #24 on: 06/16/2006 07:07 PM »
Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  1:12 PM

I thought this thread was about birdstrike holds? :o

You know the bird strike hold is making a lot more sense in light of what the conversation has started to degenerate into.

I wonder, will they micromanage it down into a mosquito hold in case any are found to close to the shuttle.
If you're happy and you know it,
It's your med's!

Offline astrobrian

  • NSF Photographer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2934
  • Austin Texas
  • Liked: 19
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #25 on: 06/16/2006 07:11 PM »
Maybe we need to call a bird strike hold here and take a deep breath.

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #26 on: 06/16/2006 07:12 PM »
This thread stays on the reference to the article from now on.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #27 on: 06/16/2006 09:50 PM »
The birdstrike hold is a good example of how micromanagement actually turns out. This all started with the foam, which was a real problem that needed attending to. As always happens when management responds to media, however, NASA managers shifted from their position that an engineering problem was seen as a "dead issue" to wanting to show the public that they could manage every risk, no matter how small out of the STS caused by the foam or any other object.

Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong, but I do not recall any proof that the birdstrike on STS 114 did anything other than the killing, plucking and instant roasting a couple of wayward buzzards. Since the film coverage was greatly expanded on that flight, the unlucky buzzards were recorded and that film was then open to use by the morons producing the 24 hour news media. This is then presented as a hazard in much the same way that an RMS arm EVA to snatch a couple of hunks of gap filler was presented as "The most daring and dangerous EVA ever..." And so the buzzards must now be managed and micromanaged. I'm not one to use costs as a measuring stick- but think how many meetings and how many man-hours went into proposing, deciding upon and then composing and inserting this hold into the process of a shuttle countdown. I picture a whole bunch of engineers, managers and other NASA folks muling over this issue- forming mission rules and a whole bunch more rolling their eyes. God forbid they should discover an onboard toilet hazard! The blue bags would come back.

Offline Flightstar

  • Lurking around OPF High Bay 2
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1870
  • KSC, Florida
  • Liked: 11
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #28 on: 06/16/2006 10:13 PM »
Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  4:37 PM


Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong, but I do not recall any proof that the birdstrike on STS 114 did anything other than the killing, plucking and instant roasting a couple of wayward buzzards.

That is correct, no damage to the tank.

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17213
  • Liked: 1591
  • Likes Given: 780
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #29 on: 06/16/2006 10:32 PM »
Quote
zerm - 16/6/2006  5:37 PM

Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong, but I do not recall any proof that the birdstrike on STS 114 did anything other than the killing, plucking and instant roasting a couple of wayward buzzards. Since the film coverage was greatly expanded on that flight, the unlucky buzzards were recorded and that film was then open to use by the morons producing the 24 hour news media.
That would have been picked up by any number of pre-114 cameras, perhaps even at night; the difference is that there were lots more eyeballs for 114.  (And some really deaf vultures.)

Seems that there should be some kind of risk assessment for "bird debris," (Chris?) but that vulture probably carried with it some decent momentum, even at low speed.  Unless vultures have a "thing" for the tank like the woodpeckers did, how much certainty is there that it wouldn't have hit the orbiter?

Offline astrobrian

  • NSF Photographer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2934
  • Austin Texas
  • Liked: 19
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #30 on: 06/17/2006 03:22 AM »
I dont ever recall a bird strike before this flight. That may also be due to the previously mentioned eyeballs on 114, but still 1 in 114 shouldn't really require a hold unless it is a migration season or something where the odds are much higherof a hit. As to the deafness of the vulture in question, the noise was probably so loud that he was more busy trying to figure out what the unconventional noises were and if they were a threat. The watching where he was flying I think was put to the back burner until he tasted foam which by then it was too late.

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17213
  • Liked: 1591
  • Likes Given: 780
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #31 on: 06/17/2006 11:13 AM »
Quote
astrobrian - 16/6/2006  11:09 PM

I dont ever recall a bird strike before this flight. That may also be due to the previously mentioned eyeballs on 114, but still 1 in 114 shouldn't really require a hold unless it is a migration season or something where the odds are much higherof a hit. As to the deafness of the vulture in question, the noise was probably so loud that he was more busy trying to figure out what the unconventional noises were and if they were a threat. The watching where he was flying I think was put to the back burner until he tasted foam which by then it was too late.
I don't recall seeing it before 114, either, and there's lots of footage of all the launches before the vehicle clears the tower.  That was the biggest surprise of the launch for me -- seeing those buzzards fly towards the conflagration and sound well after the pad water release, the main engines, and the SRBs had started.

It's not the odds that will cause a hold, but a similar appearance at the top of the FSS probably would...it's something they don't have much control over, like weather.  (They'll wait for weather to get out of the way, too, in several places.)

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #32 on: 06/17/2006 03:11 PM »
Part of the sillyness of this whole thing is that for flying machines, birdstrike damage- like foam damage- is directly related to speed. The speed of the STS stack while in the envelope of probable buzzard contact is very slow compared to a minute later when the speeds are far higher. Even if one of these buzzards had hit the orbiter at the time when the film shows them interfacing with the stack, they would have done little and probably no damage (IMHO).

Please- someone who works on the shuttle chime in here...

These buzzards- although they have the ability to fly quite high- do not tend to do so. Rather they remain quite low so as to be able to spot food and secure that same food. Once a food source (a dead anything) is located they guard it. Odds are that something very yummy and very dead was very near the STS114 pad at launch time... err lunch time. So the buzzards were there too.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32121
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 10765
  • Likes Given: 321
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #33 on: 06/17/2006 04:49 PM »
the buzzards usually hang out around the VAB and on top of it, using its updrafts.  The new world vultures (buzzards) detect carrion by smell, not by sight.

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #34 on: 06/18/2006 03:20 AM »
Sorry- I'm not a buzzard expert. Guess I should have said "sniff food" rather than "spot" food.  ;)

So- if they're hangin' out around the VAB, how're they a threat to a launch? Do they just glide on over for a front row seat?... or should I say roost? (I wanna be more than generally correct).

 ;)  ;)  ;)

Offline Mark Dave

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1104
  • Ruined
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Additional countdown hold for Shuttle Discovery
« Reply #35 on: 06/26/2006 11:22 PM »
Imagine how hard it has to be to get bird crap off the windows of the orbiter. I'm sure the vehicle has that stuff here and there. :) Maybe this time someone shoud get a big dinner plate to catch the cooked poultry. lol :) Hey, it's fresh food ready to eat. The bird problem is that they see the shuttle as a big tree, something to live on or in- as woodpeckers have pecked the foam of the tank before. They'll learn then they die from the stuff or fried at launch. *gets a bottle of hot peppers* Now where's the fried birds? Maybe we can have adobo. :) Adobo is a filipino dish- at least as far as I know from my mom's cooking.

I may draw a funny shuttle pic soon. One idea came to mind from the anime cartoon Outlaw Star. :) Well the reason is the first photo of the OBSS I saw, I at first thought the orbiter got a new RMS. One book I'm sure you guys all know of called "Back to the Moon" by Homer Hickam Jr has shuttle Columbia  do just that. It's a mix of X-files meets NASA with conspiracies and a secret society. A cool story for shuttle buffs and also a great adventure story.

I read the older posts on the older pages of this thread. Hmm, correct on all points. Sorry to add my bit but the "yanks" term was started in the Civil War. Yeah derogetory terms do bug me as I did have a few problems with ignorant people years back. IMO words are words, but it is the context the speaker uses them in that offends others.


Tags: