Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES (PART 2)  (Read 134019 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

On to Part 2 (Thread 2) of the Pre Launch Updates.

NSF Resources:
SpaceX Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions, non updates.

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

Recent COTS C2+ Specific articles:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/Dragon/


--------------
L2 Members:

L2 SpaceX Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags&tags=SpaceX

L2 SpaceX Dragon C2/C3 Mission Special (NEW - Exclusively acquired pre-launch and Mission Coverage, Presentations, Graphics, Videos, Updates, NASA/Space industry member comments):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=54.0

To Join L2: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/l2/
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Offline Chris Bergin

ISS schedule slips Dragon launch to May 19 – future manifest outlook - by Pete Harding:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/iss-schedule-dragon-launch-19-may-future-manifest-outlook/
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Offline rcoppola

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Wow Pete. Extremely well written. One of the best articles I have read. Excellent structure and word usage. Very impressive. Great job!

Write more!

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Offline douglas100

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Yes, that was very informative. I never realised how many variables were involved in VV operations. And it looks like it will not get any simpler in the future...
Douglas Clark

Offline Lee Jay

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That is a really great article!

Offline Space Pete

Yes, that was very informative. I never realised how many variables were involved in VV operations. And it looks like it will not get any simpler in the future...

That's right - all this trouble just to fit one Dragon into the manifest. Imagine what it will be like trying to fit three Dragons and two Cygnuses into the manifest every year, in addition to all the other vehicles. And I don't even want to start to consider commercial crew...

In a way, it's a good job Orbital picked Wallops over KSC, since it will reduce the load on the KSC range.

I wonder whether, in future, we'll ever find a Dragon and a Cygnus battling with each other for a certain place in the ISS manifest - and I wonder whether Dragon would automatically come first since it carries more upmass?
NASASpaceflight ISS Writer

Offline mr. mark

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A fantastic article! This really clears up a lot of the scheduling questions that I had.

Offline Lee Jay

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Would Node 4 make any difference in all this?

Offline marshallsplace

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Wow Pete. Extremely well written. One of the best articles I have read. Excellent structure and word usage. Very impressive. Great job!

Write more!



I agree!

Well done Pete and thanks!

Offline manboytwo

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Would Node 4 make any difference in all this?
Not really, although a Node 4 might not require HTV 3 to be relocated.
"Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice." - StephenB

Offline Space Pete

Would Node 4 make any difference in all this?

No, not really - Node 4 would only have a max of two CBM ports, both of which would likely be used for future expansion (inflatable modules/DSH/MPLM).

Even if Node 4 were used for cargo VVs, it would only eliminate the need for relocations to Node 2 Zenith, buying perhaps a few days max - the biggest issues of free-flight overlap, beta angle cutouts and range conflicts would still exist.
NASASpaceflight ISS Writer

Offline Comga

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Agreed! It's a great article. Very detailed and informative. 

It answers many questions including how the beta angle affects the ISS and VVs.  The article also shows how even anik's crowded ISS schedule, now updated with the May 19th NET launch date for COTS 2+, is only part of the story, with the other being the range and its cut-out dates for other vehicles.
« Last Edit: 05/05/2012 05:47 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline MP99

ISS schedule slips Dragon launch to May 19 – future manifest outlook - by Pete Harding:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/iss-schedule-dragon-launch-19-may-future-manifest-outlook/

Quote
After the beta angle cutout period ends on June 13, Dragon would have launch opportunities on June 13 and June 16, however June 19 would not be available...

Since there are only two consecutive launch opportunities here, would it make sense for SpaceX to consider launching on June 10th, which would only require delaying prox ops from FD3 to FD4?

cheers, Martin

Offline Space Pete

Since there are only two consecutive launch opportunities here, would it make sense for SpaceX to consider launching on June 10th, which would only require delaying prox ops from FD3 to FD4?

No, since that would involve Dragon being on-orbit during the solar beta cutout period - which doesn't just affect prox ops, but affects the entire free flight period, even when the vehicle in question is far from the ISS.
NASASpaceflight ISS Writer

Offline rcoppola

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Some of this doesn't appear to be very efficient. Meaning, we have X people at any one time, supposed to be doing X amount of scientific research. It seems many important and very expensive man-hours will be consumed with all of these logistics.

Is there a more efficient way either now or in the future?
(wrong thread I suppose)
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Offline FinalFrontier

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Well I can't say I am surprised to see another slip like this, but I can say I am disappointed.


Was really hoping to see them launch actually back on May 2 or late April as was originally planned for last year.

Oh well, if the extra time means its going to work optimally then its worth it, but I really do not want to see another slip especially as we would then have conflicts with HTV and possibly even orbital ect as chris showed in his article. They need to make this may 19th launch day.

Lets cross our fingers.
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Offline Space Pete

Some of this doesn't appear to be very efficient. Meaning, we have X people at any one time, supposed to be doing X amount of scientific research. It seems many important and very expensive man-hours will be consumed with all of these logistics.

Is there a more efficient way either now or in the future?
(wrong thread I suppose)

Yup, that is just an unfortunate drawback. The only way to solve it could come when commercial crew gets online, by increasing the ISS crew to 7, and maybe launching some extra astronauts in the un-used seats who would stay aboard only for a few weeks, during which time they would devote themselves to heavy logistics (meaning commercial crew and cargo flights would have to be timed to run concurrently).
NASASpaceflight ISS Writer

Offline rcoppola

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Some of this doesn't appear to be very efficient. Meaning, we have X people at any one time, supposed to be doing X amount of scientific research. It seems many important and very expensive man-hours will be consumed with all of these logistics.

Is there a more efficient way either now or in the future?
(wrong thread I suppose)

Yup, that is just an unfortunate drawback. The only way to solve it could come when commercial crew gets online, by increasing the ISS crew to 7, and maybe launching some extra astronauts in the un-used seats who would stay aboard only for a few weeks, during which time they would devote themselves to heavy logistics (meaning commercial crew and cargo flights would have to be timed to run concurrently).
That is an excellent thought regarding dedicated crew for heavy logistics. It's that kind of thinking that excites me for when Commercial Crew starts in ernest. So many possibilities. Perhaps we even train a contingent of (Commercial) astronauts for that sole purpose. On top of which, they would become part of the commercial launch services industry. Keep NASA focussed on research. (OK, back to updates)
« Last Edit: 05/05/2012 08:57 pm by rcoppola »
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Online Jorge

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Some of this doesn't appear to be very efficient. Meaning, we have X people at any one time, supposed to be doing X amount of scientific research. It seems many important and very expensive man-hours will be consumed with all of these logistics.

Is there a more efficient way either now or in the future?
(wrong thread I suppose)

Yup, that is just an unfortunate drawback. The only way to solve it could come when commercial crew gets online, by increasing the ISS crew to 7, and maybe launching some extra astronauts in the un-used seats who would stay aboard only for a few weeks, during which time they would devote themselves to heavy logistics (meaning commercial crew and cargo flights would have to be timed to run concurrently).
That is an excellent thought regarding dedicated crew for heavy logistics. It's that kind of thinking that excites me for when Commercial Crew starts in ernest. So many possibilities. Perhaps we even train a contingent of astronauts for that sole purpose. On top of which, they would become part of the commercial launch services industry. Keep NASA focussed on research. (OK, back to updates)

Unlikely. My bet is that NASA uses those slots to give new astronauts flight experience before they get assigned to a long-duration expedition. They wouldn't train for that sole purpose (though they would get flight-specific training for that first flight). Much like NASA used to do on the shuttle, actually... most ISS expedition astronauts flew on the shuttle first.
« Last Edit: 05/05/2012 09:08 pm by Jorge »
JRF

Offline MP99

Since there are only two consecutive launch opportunities here, would it make sense for SpaceX to consider launching on June 10th, which would only require delaying prox ops from FD3 to FD4?

No, since that would involve Dragon being on-orbit during the solar beta cutout period - which doesn't just affect prox ops, but affects the entire free flight period, even when the vehicle in question is far from the ISS.

OK, thanks.

One other question if I may...

Quote
...unlike the ISS, the solar arrays on VVs do not have beta rotation capability, meaning they cannot rotate to face the side-on Sun, and thus cannot receive enough sunlight to generate adequate power.

The beta angle isn't an on-off switch, so what makes the beta limit for Dragon the same as for ISS? Is it designed to exactly the same limit and no more?

cheers, Martin

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