Author Topic: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014  (Read 62087 times)

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Anik reports that this Progress will fly on Soyuz-2.1a. That LV provides about 400 extra kg of payload - so how will this be accommodated on Progress?  Perhaps the Rodnik tanks, the prop tanks and the cargo compartment will all simply be maxed out. In practice, that would be:

1300 kg dry cargo
 420 kg water in Rodnik tanks
 880 kg mid-section prop for ISS
 250 kg PAO prop for use by ISS

That totals to 2850 kg, within 100 kg of the max capability of Soyuz-2.1a from Baikonur. A little more dry cargo could probably be stuffed into the cargo compartment.


« Last Edit: 04/27/2015 08:56 am by Jester »

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3181
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 235
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #1 on: 05/02/2012 04:43 pm »
Anik reports that this Progress will fly on Soyuz-2.1a. That LV provides about 400 extra kg of payload - so how will this be accommodated on Progress?  Perhaps the Rodnik tanks, the prop tanks and the cargo compartment will all simply be maxed out. In practice, that would be:

1300 kg dry cargo
 420 kg water in Rodnik tanks
 880 kg mid-section prop for ISS
 250 kg PAO prop for use by ISS

That totals to 2850 kg, within 100 kg of the max capability of Soyuz-2.1a from Baikonur. A little more dry cargo could probably be stuffed into the cargo compartment.





Additional gas tanks like M-52, M-53, M-54 and M-55?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16803.msg494268#msg494268
Rodnik in cargo compartment like Progress-M1?

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #2 on: 05/02/2012 04:48 pm »
Anik reports that this Progress will fly on Soyuz-2.1a. That LV provides about 400 extra kg of payload - so how will this be accommodated on Progress?  Perhaps the Rodnik tanks, the prop tanks and the cargo compartment will all simply be maxed out. In practice, that would be:

1300 kg dry cargo
 420 kg water in Rodnik tanks
 880 kg mid-section prop for ISS
 250 kg PAO prop for use by ISS

That totals to 2850 kg, within 100 kg of the max capability of Soyuz-2.1a from Baikonur. A little more dry cargo could probably be stuffed into the cargo compartment.





Additional gas tanks like M-52, M-53, M-54 and M-55?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16803.msg494268#msg494268
Rodnik in cargo compartment like Progress-M1?

Yeah, I forgot about atmospheric gas tanks, that's good for 40 kg, and yes, external tanks could add a little more. No cargo compartment Rodnik tanks, though, since that decreases available cargo mass.

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #3 on: 05/02/2012 08:01 pm »
Anik reports that this Progress will fly on Soyuz-2.1a. That LV provides about 400 extra kg of payload - so how will this be accommodated on Progress?  Perhaps the Rodnik tanks, the prop tanks and the cargo compartment will all simply be maxed out. In practice, that would be:

anytime table for this?
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3181
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 235
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #4 on: 05/02/2012 08:36 pm »
Maybe the rocket will be instrumented; for later manned missions, abort system tests?

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 963
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #5 on: 05/02/2012 09:06 pm »
Introduction of Soyuz-2 rocket for Progress launches does not mean that mass of cargoes will be increased. It means only that Roskosmos and TsSKB-Progress wants to replace Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG rockets, because systems for them are producing in Ukraine and they are very old. RSC Energia categorically against introduction of Soyuz-2, because this rocket costs much money and does not give advantages for Progress and Soyuz launches.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #6 on: 05/02/2012 10:10 pm »
Anik reports that this Progress will fly on Soyuz-2.1a. That LV provides about 400 extra kg of payload - so how will this be accommodated on Progress?  Perhaps the Rodnik tanks, the prop tanks and the cargo compartment will all simply be maxed out. In practice, that would be:

anytime table for this?


October 23 2013

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #7 on: 05/02/2012 10:13 pm »
Introduction of Soyuz-2 rocket for Progress launches does not mean that mass of cargoes will be increased. It means only that Roskosmos and TsSKB-Progress wants to replace Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG rockets, because systems for them are producing in Ukraine and they are very old. RSC Energia categorically against introduction of Soyuz-2, because this rocket costs much money and does not give advantages for Progress and Soyuz launches.

Not so easy.

In order for the Soyuz 2-1a to maintain a trajectory so that lower stages drop into the drop zones, the payload mass must be some 400 kg more massive than for Soyuz-U (otherwise, the rocket will pass the drop zones by some tens of kilometers). An alternative would be to reprogram the flight computer to shut off the engines earlier than normal, but that would be risky - the optimal approach is appropriate loading of the system, not playing with software.

In the worst case, an extra 400 kg of prop and gases and water could be added to Progress that might be wasted at ISS, that is far cheaper than reprogramming the avionics. And yes, Progress can handle that additional mass during docking, as long as the c/g is maintained properly.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2012 10:14 pm by Danderman »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2406
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 601
  • Likes Given: 99
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #8 on: 05/03/2012 11:46 am »
But adding 400kg would mean a redesign of Progress M-M, because in the present configuration the is no available space for more cargo.

At first, the use of Soyuz-2 was needed for Progress M1. But since this spacecraft is no longer in use, there is no more need for Soyuz-2.
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline patchfree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • webmaster and russian space fan
  • Poitiers, France
    • kosmosnews.fr, l'actualité spatiale russe en français
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #9 on: 05/03/2012 05:10 pm »
But adding 400kg would mean a redesign of Progress M-M, because in the present configuration the is no available space for more cargo.

At first, the use of Soyuz-2 was needed for Progress M1. But since this spacecraft is no longer in use, there is no more need for Soyuz-2.

Adding kgs of cargo not necessary implies additional space. It depends on the nature of these kgs... (density)  :).
« Last Edit: 05/03/2012 05:10 pm by patchfree »
http://kosmosnews.fr l'actualité spatiale russe en français

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #10 on: 05/04/2012 02:53 am »
But adding 400kg would mean a redesign of Progress M-M, because in the present configuration the is no available space for more cargo.

There is no requirement to redesign Progress-MM to incorporate 400 kg more cargo, all that is required is to fill the cargo compartment completely with dry cargo, fill all prop tanks, and all water and gas tanks, as described earlier in this thread.

Progress M-1 would allow even more cargo, by allowing an additional ~900 kg of prop in the refueling compartment.

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3181
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 235
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #11 on: 06/29/2012 09:47 pm »
Could the Soyuz-2 not deliver the Progress to a higher orbit?

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #12 on: 06/30/2012 05:01 am »
Could the Soyuz-2 not deliver the Progress to a higher orbit?

Drop zones.

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3181
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 235

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #14 on: 07/01/2012 02:26 pm »
Could the Soyuz-2 not deliver the Progress to a higher orbit?

Drop zones.


The same for Progress M-UM?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23673.msg675832#msg675832

You can bet that the UM will be filled with sufficient cargo, and that it itself will have sufficient mass, that the Soyuz-2 LV will drop stages almost exactly where Soyuz-U does.

But the question above is related to flying Progress to a higher initial orbit, and that cannot be done and still allow for stages to land in the appropriate drop zones.


However, the

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #15 on: 07/01/2012 02:27 pm »
Could the Soyuz-2 not deliver the Progress to a higher orbit?

The higher the initial orbit, the longer the rendezvous with ISS will take.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #16 on: 10/06/2013 03:13 pm »
According to Anik, Progress M-22M is no longer flying on Soyuz 2-1A. but M-25M IS flying on the 2-1A.

« Last Edit: 10/06/2013 03:15 pm by Danderman »

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Liked: 626
  • Likes Given: 713
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #17 on: 07/11/2014 02:41 pm »
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20311.msg1224968#msg1224968

Quote
Q This October we are expecting a maiden flight of cargo transportation vehicle Progress on top of Soyuz-2.1A LV. How many of those LVs is requested by Roscosmos for such missions?
A Currently we got a contract for manufacturing of 4 Soyuz-2.1A LV for cargo transportation vehicle Progress supply missions. We are planning to launch first vehicle till this year fall, 2 - next year, and one in 2016.

Q How many Progress vehicles would be launched on Soyuz-2.1A before this LV might be certified as a man-rated?  When are you planning a maiden flight of manned Soyuz on Soyuz 2.1A?
A At present time the head think tank of [Russian aerospace] industry [TsNIIMash] is busy preparing program of qualifying flights and determining minimal number of launches required to confirm reliability of LV before commencing manned launches. Our formal proposals are submitted to TsNIIMash. We are proposing to perform 3 qualifying flights with Progress cargo vehicle and after that to launch a manned Soyuz on Soyuz 2.1 (fall 2016 or in beginning of 2017).

He also mentioned that Centre is NOT planning to use Soyuz 2.1b LV for manned launches of Soyuz-TMA spacecrafts and Progess Cargo transportation vehicles.   

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 963
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #18 on: 07/11/2014 04:39 pm »
He also mentioned that Centre is NOT planning to use Soyuz 2.1b LV for manned launches of Soyuz-TMA spacecrafts and Progess Cargo transportation vehicles

It is not planning for now.

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3181
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 235
Re: Progress M-25M (No. 424) Soyuz-2-1A – October 29 2014
« Reply #19 on: 07/11/2014 05:27 pm »
So there is only one contract for four rockets at the moment.

The tender for four 2-1A rockets was raised in July 2012, contract signed August 2012.

1st delivery was scheduled for June 2014, for the launch of Progress-MS № 432, scheduled for launch in October 2014.

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/events_journal/show?notificationId=3885879

So any earlier possible use of 2-1A is incorrect?

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement SkyTale Software GmbH
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0