Quote from: DaveH62 on 09/17/2014 12:22 amWhy aren't we excited. The meme is very negative, but the reality is we have a new space race. A space race for the first time in almost 50 years. It should not be about who got more money, but who is going to build a better ship, who is going to be first, who is going to build a sustainable, more than LEO, more than NASA passenger business model. Sure SNC would have been great, but this is the safe technical and political path and we have two American competitors that could be fighting for contracts for the next 20 years. With 20 years of competition we have an opportunity to advance our space capabilities more than the last 45.Not exactly. First of all I don't think Boeing is interested in building a "more than LEO" passenger business model. They made it pretty clear that they were only interested in developing their capsule for the NASA station crew use case. Second, it's not really even a "race" to LEO since both companies are funded and will get a chance to obtain their launches, irrespective of the development path of the other.
Why aren't we excited. The meme is very negative, but the reality is we have a new space race. A space race for the first time in almost 50 years. It should not be about who got more money, but who is going to build a better ship, who is going to be first, who is going to build a sustainable, more than LEO, more than NASA passenger business model. Sure SNC would have been great, but this is the safe technical and political path and we have two American competitors that could be fighting for contracts for the next 20 years. With 20 years of competition we have an opportunity to advance our space capabilities more than the last 45.
Quote from: CapitalistOppressor on 09/17/2014 12:43 amGoing with Boeing makes a lot of sense because of their history. There is a very high likelihood that they succeedOr get the project cancelled, walking away with the money and not having to produce anything.. as they've done countless times before.
Going with Boeing makes a lot of sense because of their history. There is a very high likelihood that they succeed
Glass half full, glass half empty. It's the first glass we've had in years.
well it's based on milestones, so if they walk away prematurely, they walk away from moneyIf NASA chooses SpaceX in the end, but Boeing have fullfilled their end of the contract, then that's the way the cookie crumbles
Quote from: DaveH62 on 09/17/2014 12:45 amGlass half full, glass half empty. It's the first glass we've had in years.Well, it's a bartender promising to show up to work if you pay for his heart surgery. Also, there's no beer.
Quote from: robertross on 09/17/2014 12:48 amwell it's based on milestones, so if they walk away prematurely, they walk away from moneyIf NASA chooses SpaceX in the end, but Boeing have fullfilled their end of the contract, then that's the way the cookie crumblesSounds like a great way to get free money. Hey, pay for the development of a new vehicle for us.. we'll do all the paperwork milestones but not build any actual hardware. Deal?
Quote from: Karlman on 09/17/2014 12:02 amSo this means SpaceX is funded to develop from 3 to 7 Dragon v2 crew modules? (Test flight, plus 2 to 6 ISS flights).That should be a nice stockpile slightly used Dragons that can be used for other manned launches, assuming SpaceX can get even 2 or 3 flights out of each one, let alone if they meet the 10x re-use goal on some (probably too optimistic for the first batch of crewed dragon).If nothing else, they should have all the hardware they need to test and eventually prove-out re-usability of the Dragon v2!Yes. Although my recollection is that the RFP said that there would be a maximum of 6 post-certification missions for both providers. So SpaceX is more likely to get between 2 and 4 post-certification missions plus a crewed demo flight to the ISS. Although they didn't say it during the pressers, there is likely also an uncrewed flight. See this article for more info:http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/08/nasa-outlines-plans-commercial-crew-certification/
So this means SpaceX is funded to develop from 3 to 7 Dragon v2 crew modules? (Test flight, plus 2 to 6 ISS flights).That should be a nice stockpile slightly used Dragons that can be used for other manned launches, assuming SpaceX can get even 2 or 3 flights out of each one, let alone if they meet the 10x re-use goal on some (probably too optimistic for the first batch of crewed dragon).If nothing else, they should have all the hardware they need to test and eventually prove-out re-usability of the Dragon v2!
Huh?It's not free money. You're saying the same thing for SpaceX then.Have you seen the pressure capsule Boeing made? It's in this thread...
imagine being a spaceplane fan and having any realistic hope of seeing another reusable spaceplane in your lifetime killed
On the question of why no more excitement from some of us, well, in my case it's quite simple: imagine being a spaceplane fan and having any realistic hope of seeing another reusable spaceplane in your lifetime killed, while NASA chooses to use its limited resources to fund three different flavors of capsule designs. On a more abstract level, I think it reflects risk aversion and a lack of willingness to do new and interesting things. No longer are we the country that does things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.
Quote from: robertross on 09/17/2014 12:51 amHuh?It's not free money. You're saying the same thing for SpaceX then.Have you seen the pressure capsule Boeing made? It's in this thread...SpaceX actually wants to fly. Boeing just wants the money. There's a pressure capsule for Orion too..
For Boeing, their goal is to make money, but they still need to produce the hardware to earn it, which means they need to fly.
They don't actually have to fly anything to get more money in this contract.
Quote from: robertross on 09/17/2014 01:18 amFor Boeing, their goal is to make money, but they still need to produce the hardware to earn it, which means they need to fly.Huh? They just finished all the milestones of a contract in which they produced nothing but stacks of paper and they got paid the most to do it. They don't actually have to fly anything to get more money in this contract. As soon as it stops being profitable, and it will, they'll walk away.. as they've been doing on NASA contracts for years.
Huh? They just finished all the milestones of a contract in which they produced nothing but stacks of paper and they got paid the most to do it. They don't actually have to fly anything to get more money in this contract. As soon as it stops being profitable, and it will, they'll walk away.. as they've been doing on NASA contracts for years.
