CCDev to CCiCAP to CCtCAP Discussion Thread

[Celebrimbor]

I don't get it... what's the 60:40 split then?  How is this fair to SpaceX if the requirements are the same?  I'm trying to watch but my connection is bad...

[Celebrimbor]

Why does Boeing get more?  Her answer further supported the confusing nature of the reward.  I sure wish SpaceX had an extra billion to throw at the BFR / MCT.

Because they asked for/required more.  It's really that simple.

What would be interesting to know is what SNC would have required if they had been awarded a contract.

maybe they just required nothing

[Norm38]

I lost video after the question about funding from Congress.  Was that question answered or dodged?  Are these award amounts fully funded, or dependent on future money?  Meaning the project can be cancelled?

[Brovane]

I don't get it... what's the 60:40 split then?  How is this fair to SpaceX if the requirements are the same?  I'm trying to watch but my connection is bad...

SpaceX just bid lower.  NASA didn't set the amount the companies bidding did. 

[edkyle99]

I'm going to guess that some of the extra Boeing funding is needed for launch vehicle work - dual Centaur certification and so on.  SpaceX presumably already has the launch vehicle.  Also, Boeing still has a production space to create while SpaceX already has a factory running, and so on.  Remember that SpaceX has a head start on all this thanks to ISS cargo - a contract that has paid them billions already.

 - Ed Kyle

[Silmfeanor]

I don't get it... what's the 60:40 split then?  How is this fair to SpaceX if the requirements are the same?  I'm trying to watch but my connection is bad...

SpaceX just bid lower.  NASA didn't set the amount the companies bidding did.

1.6 billion lower. For the same result.

[ugordan]

Good thing SNC didn't get anything out of that $7 billion pie. Must be a really nice day at the Boeing camp, though...

[Brovane]

I lost video after the question about funding from Congress.  Was that question answered or dodged?  Are these award amounts fully funded, or dependent on future money?  Meaning the project can be cancelled?

I would conjucture that Congress could cut funding at any time.  So yes the project can be canceled. 

[Star One]

Watching armchair experts blather and whine is really tiresome to people who understand aerospace development and government contracting.

I never quite some people's issue with Boeing tbh, maybe I am missing something.

[Jeff Lerner]

So if both companies said they can satisfy the requirements, but SpaceX said they can do at a far cheaper cost, why didn't they win the whole award ?.

[abaddon]

I'm going to guess that some of the extra Boeing funding is needed for launch vehicle work - dual Centaur certification and so on.  SpaceX presumably already has the launch vehicle.  Also, Boeing still has a production space to create, and so on.

Also pad abort test, in-flight abort test, creation of actual flight articles for structural testing, etc etc.  In other words, the stuff we have already discussed to death about where SpaceX is ahead of Boeing coming out of CCiCAP.  (With the caveat that they aren't done with CCiCAP where Boeing is.  They're still ahead though).

[Brovane]

I don't get it... what's the 60:40 split then?  How is this fair to SpaceX if the requirements are the same?  I'm trying to watch but my connection is bad...

SpaceX just bid lower.  NASA didn't set the amount the companies bidding did.

1.6 billion lower. For the same result.

Yes 1.6 Billion for the same result.  Look at the Orbital and SpaceX contract for Commercial Cargo.  SpaceX bid lower than Orbital and has the ability to return cargo to Earth. 

[Coastal Ron]

What would be interesting to know is what SNC would have required if they had been awarded a contract.

Likely it would have been more than what Boeing asked for, which would have played into the overall decision as to who to pick for the second provider (i.e. Boeing or Sierra Nevada).  Sierra Nevada likely also had the most risk associated with their proposal, even though Boeing hasn't built any hardware, but Boeings design is conservative.

[Brovane]

So if both companies said they can satisfy the requirements, but SpaceX said they can do at a far cheaper cost, why didn't they win the whole award ?.

Because they wanted to two providers for crew delivery to the ISS.  So two separate launch vehicles and spacecraft.  In case one has a issue you, your access to space isn't cut off. 

[edkyle99]

1.6 billion lower. For the same result.

SpaceX has a head start that accounts for the $1.6 billion difference, IMO.  That ISS cargo head start was provided by previous NASA funding to the tune of, what, a couple billion dollars?

 - Ed Kyle

[JimNtexas]

This is good for SpaceX, if there is a budget cut and they have to downselect it would be malfeasance to discontinue SpaceX.  Assuming both companies have successful demo flights on budget and schedule. 

[kevinof]

To the target is to be ready to fly by 2017 -  ie December 31st 2017. that's basically 2 and bit years from now. I think SpaceX can do it but can Boeing? They have a lot more to do and therefore have more risk.

[abaddon]

Likely it would have been more than what Boeing asked for, which would have played into the overall decision as to who to pick for the second provider (i.e. Boeing or Sierra Nevada).  Sierra Nevada likely also had the most risk associated with their proposal, even though Boeing hasn't built any hardware, but Boeings design is conservative.

I'm not so sure SNC would have required more.  I agree they were higher risk and I think that was the determining factor.  And I can't shake the feeling that coming out with Boeing getting the biggest share of the pie doesn't also give NASA a better feeling when they go with their hat out to Congress for the money to fund this program.

[oiorionsbelt]

I look at this as 'we', spaceflight enthusiasts, get 2.6 billion to get 'us' closer to Mars while Boeing, stock holders, get 4.2 billion to get back to LEO. YMMV of course.

[erioladastra]

The contract includes $$ for "special studies".
Ha!

that is code for "when the ISS or CCP changes the requirements, this is how we pay for them since it is a fixed cost contract"