CCDev to CCiCAP to CCtCAP Discussion Thread

[arachnitect]

Anyone else have any information about the alleged (by the WSJ) co-operation between Boeing and Blue Origin on CST-100?

I'm guessing that detail was confusion of the ULA/Blue Origin engine development venture that will be announced tomorrow (which appears to be a long term thing not directly related to CCtCap).

[saliva_sweet]

I don't like the vibes I'm getting from this whole deal in the last few hours. Looks like indeed there has been a last minute change. Gerst and Bolden, the two big drivers of ComCrew appear to be actively distancing themselves from the announcement. Boeing is looking to get the win by bidding unicorns.

I hope I'm wrong.

edit: Abbadon is correct, I was mistaken about that Gerst and Bolden thing.

[abaddon]

Gerst and Bolden, the two big drivers of ComCrew appear to be actively distancing themselves from the announcement.

Bolden is going to be announcing it and Gerst just tweeted about it.  No need to add FUD here with all of the conflicting reporting going around already.

[wannamoonbase]

I'm not putting any stock in the WSJ article.  Especially after it was bought by Rupert Murdoch.

Someone trying to get out in front of a story, or planting a seed for something to be mad about if it doesn't go Boeing's way.  Smells like game play to me.

I still think a CST-100 and Dragon pick is the most likely, but hoping DC makes the cut.  With a possible wildcard of being able to launch on either the Atlas V or Falcon 9.

[AJW]

Anyone else have any information about the alleged (by the WSJ) co-operation between Boeing and Blue Origin on CST-100?

I believe that this Reuters article is the source.  Not teaming up on CST-100 but RD-180 replacement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/us-boeing-lockheed-martin-bezos-idUSKBN0HB0UU20140916

[GalacticIntruder]

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2014/09/16/source-nasa-to-announce-two-winners-to-fly-astronauts-to-iss/15718351/

More credible and plausible.

[Space Ghost 1962]

Anyone else have any information about the alleged (by the WSJ) co-operation between Boeing and Blue Origin on CST-100?

I believe that this Reuters article is the source.  Not teaming up on CST-100 but RD-180 replacement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/16/us-boeing-lockheed-martin-bezos-idUSKBN0HB0UU20140916

Keep in mind that BO's design, manufacturing, and test skills have not been fully exposed to the media.

Neither BO or for that matter SpaceX have impressed me with software organizations nor flight test skills. Granted they are working in relatively unique area, but I always wonder how much is luck and when it might run out.

[Alpha Control]

I expect NSF will be heavily hit with posts starting at 4:00:01pm Eastern time today, for the next few days. Chris, better call up the fail-over server! 

We may need two new threads after the announcement - a Cheerleading thread for all the congrats (thinking of images of fireworks; U.S. flag with rocket&crew vehicle rising into the sky...)

and a Consolation thread for all the sad posts (thinking of image of many empty pint glasses on bar counter, several of them laying on their sides...)   

[abaddon]

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2014/09/16/source-nasa-to-announce-two-winners-to-fly-astronauts-to-iss/15718351/

More credible and plausible.

Good article but I have to laugh a little bit; under "weaknesses" for SpaceX it lists "likely fewest local jobs".  Presumably that is not a NASA consideration...

[SWGlassPit]

I expect NSF will be heavily hit with posts starting at 4:00:01pm Eastern time today, for the next few days. Chris, better call up the fail-over server! 

We may need two new threads after the announcement - a Cheerleading thread for all the congrats (thinking of images of fireworks; U.S. flag with rocket&crew vehicle rising into the sky...)

and a Consolation thread for all the sad posts (thinking of image of many empty pint glasses on bar counter, several of them laying on their sides...)

Based on what I've read on here lately, maybe a third thread for all those who want to cry foul and say the process was rigged...

[SoulWager]

Has NASA published their selection criteria for CCtCAP?

[mr. mark]

CNN now reporting as breaking news that Boeing and SpaceX have won the contracts.

[Lars-J]

CNN now reporting as breaking news that Boeing and SpaceX have won the contracts.

CNN is just reading the same tweets as we do.

[Chris Bergin]

I expect NSF will be heavily hit with posts starting at 4:00:01pm Eastern time today, for the next few days. Chris, better call up the fail-over server! 

We may need two new threads after the announcement - a Cheerleading thread for all the congrats (thinking of images of fireworks; U.S. flag with rocket&crew vehicle rising into the sky...)

and a Consolation thread for all the sad posts (thinking of image of many empty pint glasses on bar counter, several of them laying on their sides...)

Based on what I've read on here lately, maybe a third thread for all those who want to cry foul and say the process was rigged...

We'll have the live thread for the announcement.  This thread for discussion and the specific vehicle threads, so we've covered.

If the servers get too busy, I'll make it access for logged in members (remove guests) like we do during SpaceX launches.

[yg1968]

Has NASA published their selection criteria for CCtCAP?

The selection statement usually gets published a few weeks after the selection is made in order to give time to the companies to read it and digest it.

The selection criteria can be found in the RFP:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32412.msg1122054#msg1122054

[Space Ghost 1962]

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2014/09/16/source-nasa-to-announce-two-winners-to-fly-astronauts-to-iss/15718351/

More credible and plausible.

"According to the source, the awards do not impose a "leader-follower" arrangement in which one company is awarded significantly more funding and expected to fly first, with another receiving less funding and developing its systems more slowly."

Does this mean that they are funded at the same expectation of a 2017 flight date e.g. same precedence, w/o an "expedite" increase?

In that case, is it a race between a prime contractor with high loading budget, and a small "fast mover" with its usual frugal budget?

How does complexity of vehicle affect (or handicap) the race? Do they prove the vehicles to similar levels before first flight, or does "heritage" grant a "mulligan" for expense tests like in flight aborts?

Who gets precedence when they ask for the same resource as a gating factor to avoid schedule slip / program risk?

Net net: is it a "fair and balanced" competition?

Is NASA the arbiter or Congress?

[topsphere]

Poor Dream Chaser

[yg1968]

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2014/09/16/source-nasa-to-announce-two-winners-to-fly-astronauts-to-iss/15718351/

More credible and plausible.

"According to the source, the awards do not impose a "leader-follower" arrangement in which one company is awarded significantly more funding and expected to fly first, with another receiving less funding and developing its systems more slowly."

Does this mean that they are funded at the same expectation of a 2017 flight date e.g. same precedence, w/o an "expedite" increase?

In that case, is it a race between a prime contractor with high loading budget, and a small "fast mover" with its usual frugal budget?

How does complexity of vehicle affect (or handicap) the race? Do they prove the vehicles to similar levels before first flight, or does "heritage" grant a "mulligan" for expense tests like in flight aborts?

Who gets precedence when they ask for the same resource as a gating factor to avoid schedule slip / program risk?

Net net: is it a "fair and balanced" competition?

Is NASA the arbiter or Congress?

The NBC news article already said that both companies would fly to the ISS in 2017.

[newpylong]

How much whining is there going to be if SpaceX isn't #1?

[dlapine]

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2014/09/16/source-nasa-to-announce-two-winners-to-fly-astronauts-to-iss/15718351/

More credible and plausible.

"According to the source, the awards do not impose a "leader-follower" arrangement in which one company is awarded significantly more funding and expected to fly first, with another receiving less funding and developing its systems more slowly."

Does this mean that they are funded at the same expectation of a 2017 flight date e.g. same precedence, w/o an "expedite" increase?

In that case, is it a race between a prime contractor with high loading budget, and a small "fast mover" with its usual frugal budget?

How does complexity of vehicle affect (or handicap) the race? Do they prove the vehicles to similar levels before first flight, or does "heritage" grant a "mulligan" for expense tests like in flight aborts?

Who gets precedence when they ask for the same resource as a gating factor to avoid schedule slip / program risk?

Net net: is it a "fair and balanced" competition?

Is NASA the arbiter or Congress?

The NBC news article already said that both companies would fly to the ISS in 2017.

Is a manrated Atlas and working CST-100 even possible within 3 years? Boeing would have to do both.