CCDev to CCiCAP to CCtCAP Discussion Thread

[TomH]

Washington Post is saying it's Boeing and SpaceX:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/09/16/nasa-awards-space-contract-to-boeing-and-spacex/

[sciencebro]

https://twitter.com/astro_g_dogg/status/511903296756277248

Garrett Reisman @astro_g_dog

Big news today from @Commercial_Crew !

I like the sound of that. I'll bet the billboard is in relation to the Blue Origin/ULA partnership for the rocket announcement tomorrow and that SpaceX and SNC will get the nod later today.

[theonlyspace]

NASA will make a major announcement today at 4 p.m. EDT regarding the return of human spaceflight launches to the United States. The agency will make the announcement during a news conference from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The event will be broadcast live on NASA Television and the agency's website."

[francesco nicoli]

or- could be Boeing full award, Sierra Nevada half award.

As I pointed out in the survey thread, it would make little sense to me to go for two capsules, so if Boeing is the first choice, ceteris paribus, the chances for Sierra Nevada increase.

And as I pointed out there, I am fairly convinced Boeing would be the first choice.

[theonlyspace]

As I see it Boeing CTS-100 is just a earth orbit revamp of the Orion with a few different changes.

[butters]

It would be unthinkable for NASA to lease LC-39A to SpaceX and then deny them a commercial crew contract. That would be absurd even by government standards. So a half award is literally the least they could reasonably do.

Boeing has underperformed throughout this entire process by any objective measure except for the paper milestones they defined for themselves, while consistently winning the highest contract awards, which just goes to show how exceptionally talented they are at the peculiar game of government contracting.

[sghill]

anybody know where Elon is today?

Or the flight plan for this airplane: N900SX

[MP99]

I'm still skeptical about this late Boeing publicity. Even going so far as tying in Blue Origin a day before the announcement. (the most bizarre aspect of this!)

Does anything tie Blue Origin to CCtCap other than WSJ speculation?

Blue Origin might end up working with ULA on engine development for a new rocket variant. This does not actually imply any involvement in CCtCAP itself, which is mostly about developing a spacecraft to fly on existing rockets.

The Blue Origin/ULA partnership is more likely an attempt to better compete with SpaceX in the wider launch market.

Blue Origin did work as part of CCDev 1 & 2.

CCDev 2 was $22m, including work on hydrolox engine.

cheers, Martin

[AncientU]

It would be unthinkable for NASA to lease LC-39A to SpaceX and then deny them a commercial crew contract. That would be absurd even by government standards. So a half award is literally the least they could reasonably do.

This would be especially true if SpaceX finished pad and in-flight abort before CST-100 flew, and then started launching crew from LC-39A while NASA was still buying seats from Russia.

[francesco nicoli]

It would be unthinkable for NASA to lease LC-39A to SpaceX and then deny them a commercial crew contract. That would be absurd even by government standards. So a half award is literally the least they could reasonably do.

Boeing has underperformed throughout this entire process by any objective measure except for the paper milestones they defined for themselves, while consistently winning the highest contract awards, which just goes to show how exceptionally talented they are at the peculiar game of government contracting.

don't think the two are related, but I might be wrong.

[king1999]

Now it would be a surprise if Spx and Snc win. So many mainstream media would be wrong.
But i am still rooting for them. fingers crossed.

[yg1968]

It would be unthinkable for NASA to lease LC-39A to SpaceX and then deny them a commercial crew contract. That would be absurd even by government standards. So a half award is literally the least they could reasonably do.

Boeing has underperformed throughout this entire process by any objective measure except for the paper milestones they defined for themselves, while consistently winning the highest contract awards, which just goes to show how exceptionally talented they are at the peculiar game of government contracting.

don't think the two are related, but I might be wrong.

You are right. These two items aren't related.

[abaddon]

This would be especially true if SpaceX finished pad and in-flight abort before CST-100 flew, and then started launching crew from LC-39A while NASA was still buying seats from Russia.

As amusing as it is to imagine that (assuming SpaceX is not selected), the chances of it happening are virtually nil.  SpaceX needs NASA money just as much as the other partners to finish their spacecraft.  If they do not win the contract their progress on finishing DragonV2 will be greatly slowed and I think it very unlikely there is any way they beat whoever is given the contract to space.  Even with a partial contract (if that particular rumor is true) I can't see them finishing before 2017 is done.

All IMHO, my 2c, etc.

[jimvela]

anybody know where Elon is today?

Or the flight plan for this airplane: N900SX

Not trackable per owner request.  Elon learns fast!

[Lars-J]

Washington Post is saying it's Boeing and SpaceX:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/09/16/nasa-awards-space-contract-to-boeing-and-spacex/

Again, it is light on details, citing "a person familiar with the process". This could be typical journalism-speak when they don't want to acknowledge that they are using each other as sources.

[CriX]

So it's basically SNC/Lockheed vs Boeing vs SpaceX.  In other words:  ULA vs SpaceX.   This is making me nervous.  SpaceX is the only team really pushing the envelope here technologically and so I hope they are awarded for that.

I would think that a Boeing / SpaceX win would make sense as two capsules buy the capability and backup that NASA needs to conduct business.  DreamChaser is as the name implies and is not necessary for business.  But it's relationship with Lockheed complicates matters, politically.

[Ben the Space Brit]

Anyone else have any information about the alleged (by the WSJ) co-operation between Boeing and Blue Origin on CST-100?

[FuseUpHereAlone]

Boeing has underperformed throughout this entire process by any objective measure except for the paper milestones they defined for themselves, while consistently winning the highest contract awards, which just goes to show how exceptionally talented they are at the peculiar game of government contracting.

As was pointed out in another thread, Boeing has completed plenty of non-paper milestones.  For sure though, if Boeing does win some piece of the contract and either SpaceX or Sierra Nevada get left out, the forums will cry foul of claims of crony capitalism...or maybe people just can't stand the idea that maybe an old-space company could compete and beat nu space...I guess we'll find out soon.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35485.msg1248462#msg1248462

Just to expand on this, I compiled a list of completed milestones that involved building hardware, testing, or some sort of system demonstration.

CCDev 1
    B4: Demo Abort Engine Demonstration (“COTS” RS-88 modified to run NTO/Hydrazine)
    C4: Base Heat Shield and Carrier Structure Fabrication
    D4: Avionics Systems Integration Facility (ASIF) Demonstration
    E4: CM Pressure Shell Fabrication Demonstration and Test
    F4: Landing System Demonstration (land and water)
    G4: Life Support Demonstration (Life Support Air Revitalization)
    H4: Integrated GNC Demonstration (Including an AR&D Demo)
CCDev2
    4: Launch Abort Engine Fabrication & Hot Fire Test (Evolved RS-88 Engine)
    5: Landing Air Bag Drop Demonstration #1
    6: Phase I Wind Tunnel Tests
    8: Parachute Drop Tests Demonstration
    9: SM Propellant Tank Development Test
    10: LV EDS/ASIF Interface Simulation Test
    13: OMAC Hot Fire Test
    14: SM Propulsion Cold Flow Tests
CCiCap
    7: Integrated Stack Buffet Wind Tunnel Test
    8: DEC Liquid Oxygen Duct Development Test
    9: OMAC Engine Development Test
    12: Mission Control Center Interface Demonstration Test
    14: Emergency Detection System Standalone Testing
    16: Avionics Software Integration Lab (ASIL) Multi-String Demonstration Test
    17: Pilot-in-the-loop Demonstration

[StuffOfInterest]

I don't think we would see a dual Boeing/SNC award being that both ride on the Atlas 5.  If there was ever a grounding of Atlas then both rides are stuck on the ground.  On the other hand, if it is Boeing and SpaceX then a grounding of Atlas does not affect Falcon as well as the opposite.

Unfortunately, I do think we'll see the same situation as with commercial cargo where SpaceX gets paid less for doing more.

[Norm38]

CNN is reporting:

NASA is expected to award Boeing a space shuttle contract.

So that looks to confirm Boeing gets something.  But also, why can't anyone in the major media do proper science writing?  Yes a capsule may shuttle astronauts to orbit.  But it is NOT a "space shuttle".