Author Topic: Planetary Resources  (Read 380608 times)

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #420 on: 04/07/2013 03:08 pm »
Well, as might be expected, PRI has weighed in on the rock hunt:

Quote from: PRI
...The [Keck] study sought to find ways to retrieve an entire, small asteroid, within reach of NASA’s heritage technology. I participated in this study, along with Planetary Resources’ advisor, veteran astronaut and planetary scientist Dr. Tom Jones.

It is very exciting that NASA is considering this bold step.  ...

A 7-meter (23 ft) asteroid ... could have as much as 100 tons of water and 200 tons of metals contained within it.

Return of a near-Earth-asteroid of this size would require today’s largest launch vehicles .... Even so, capturing and transporting a small asteroid should be a fairly straightforward affair.  Mission cost and complexity are likely on par with missions like the Curiosity Mars rover. The greater challenge of such an endeavor may be selecting an asteroid to retrieve.

...

It’s important to mention that a 7-meter carbonaceous asteroid poses no risk to Earth. An asteroid like this would simply burn up in our atmosphere (part of the reason why there are relatively few C-type meteorite samples). As part of the mission, the asteroid would be placed in a stable Lunar orbit, a safe place for long-term access and management. An asteroid in the Earth-Moon system allows for frequent and lower-risk visits by crewed vehicles. With the help of government (or perhaps even commercial) astronauts, technologies to process and extract resources from asteroids could be quickly developed and iterated.

Planetary Resources aims to prospect its own asteroid targets in parallel with NASA’s activity to locate and return an asteroid.  Public/private partnerships with NASA would allow for industry to assist in this mission, by identifying, characterizing and helping to select final targets -- either through remote sensing, or precursor missions to candidate asteroids.  There are certainly many opportunities for innovation to better enable this mission, and to make use of the great resource it will bring near Earth.

What do you think?  How can NASA’s new mission protect the planet, further our reach into space, and help open the Solar System for business?

Of course it's exciting for PRI; this proposed mission is right up their proposed alley.  PRI is certainly playing its political cards right alongside of the Obama administration.  It occurred to me that Lewicki and others got to Mr. Obama first; got him under a mind meld; and forced him to say BTDT about Luna, back on 04-15-10.

By yet another remarkable coincidence, the mission would require our "largest launch vehicles".  Which what, makes it more affordable?  They will not discuss cost at all, since the Keck estimate is pure malarky, as are the manned costs of launching the 130-150 ton SLS to a "stable" lunar orbit.

Parked in that "stable" lunar orbit, presumably one of the frozen ones, it would allow "frequent" "low-risk" visits by crewed vehicles.

Mr. Lewicki asks "What do you think?", but he only wants accolades, not an estimate of those frequent low risk human missions.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2013 03:10 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #421 on: 04/08/2013 06:14 pm »
Maybe PR and DSI can get Phase 1 study SAA contracts to do what they are already doing so that NASA can say look we are actually acomplishing something and we are doing it cost effective and on an advanced schedule timeline.

PS: A program modeled affter COTS or CCP where the goal is the delivery of asteriods to cis-lunar accessable orbits. Preferable different types of asteriods so multiple delivery missions could exist.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2013 06:17 pm by oldAtlas_Eguy »

Offline plank

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #422 on: 04/08/2013 07:55 pm »
Maybe PR and DSI can get Phase 1 study SAA contracts to do what they are already doing so that NASA can say look we are actually acomplishing something and we are doing it cost effective and on an advanced schedule timeline.

PS: A program modeled affter COTS or CCP where the goal is the delivery of asteriods to cis-lunar accessable orbits. Preferable different types of asteriods so multiple delivery missions could exist.


I'm thinking maybe most if not all of NASA's programs should be modeled After those programs.  That way it would prove NASA to be more cost efficient, make space more accessible to more people, and help further advance an industry. 

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #423 on: 04/08/2013 08:09 pm »
Maybe PR and DSI can get Phase 1 study SAA contracts to do what they are already doing so that NASA can say look we are actually acomplishing something and we are doing it cost effective and on an advanced schedule timeline.

PS: A program modeled affter COTS or CCP where the goal is the delivery of asteriods to cis-lunar accessable orbits. Preferable different types of asteriods so multiple delivery missions could exist.


I'm thinking maybe most if not all of NASA's programs should be modeled After those programs.  That way it would prove NASA to be more cost efficient, make space more accessible to more people, and help further advance an industry. 

My thouaghts was of a program that delivered 5+ asteriods over a period of 10 years. After 2 years the asteriod mining rights (if the deliverer did not retain such rights under the delivery contract) would be sold to the highest bidder possibly for more than what NASA spent in getting the asteriod to cis-lunar space. There would be quite a few legal tangles in all of this.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #424 on: 04/08/2013 08:20 pm »
Maybe PR and DSI can get Phase 1 study SAA contracts to do what they are already doing so that NASA can say look we are actually acomplishing something and we are doing it cost effective and on an advanced schedule timeline.

PS: A program modeled affter COTS or CCP where the goal is the delivery of asteriods to cis-lunar accessable orbits. Preferable different types of asteriods so multiple delivery missions could exist.


I'm thinking maybe most if not all of NASA's programs should be modeled After those programs.  That way it would prove NASA to be more cost efficient, make space more accessible to more people, and help further advance an industry. 

My thouaghts was of a program that delivered 5+ asteriods over a period of 10 years. After 2 years the asteriod mining rights (if the deliverer did not retain such rights under the delivery contract) would be sold to the highest bidder possibly for more than what NASA spent in getting the asteriod to cis-lunar space. There would be quite a few legal tangles in all of this.
I don't think that's a good idea. NASA would do a much better job if they were simply a stable customer for the asteroid miners, buying an end-product like:
1) oxygen (for breathing or for oxidizer propellant)
2) water (NASA already buys water from a private company on ISS produced sort of by ISRU using the Sabatier machine on-board)
3) perhaps radiation shielding (bags of regolith? don't know how practical that is...)
4) asteroid samples for scientific analysis

The last one wouldn't be a huge market, but there is scientific merit in having samples from several different types of asteroids.

The other two would support deep space HSF missions.

NASA wouldn't really have anyone to sell the asteroids to, unless they do it in exchange for a better deal or something. NASA /is/ the only real customer for much of this stuff right now.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #425 on: 04/08/2013 08:34 pm »
Here is a snip from a just posted article:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2275/1

Quote
snip

The idea does have the support of one company that unveiled plans last year to prospect and eventually mine asteroids. “It is very exciting that NASA is considering this bold step,” Planetary Resources stated in a blog post on its website over the weekend, adding that it would be happy to help. “Public/private partnerships with NASA would allow for industry to assist in this mission, by identifying, characterizing and helping to select final targets.” (One of the founders of Planetary Resources, Chris Lewicki, served on the KISS asteroid retrieval study.)

PR looks like it supports the SAA idea.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #426 on: 04/08/2013 09:05 pm »
What gets me is why not put the asteroid in a Geosync orbit?

     It would make fuel there and pick it up along the way to the Moon and it would be in a stable orbit that can be watched easily for 'poachers'.

     Putting it in Lunar orbit only makes sense if you're planning on using it as a platform to go to the moon.  Otherwise, mining the asteroid in Geosync and dropping 'care packages' down well is a whole lot easier than having to over come the Moon's gravity well, and you could use the Geosync asteroid as a platform for clearing out dead satillites in Geosync orbit.

Just a thought...

Jason

(Boy, that first section was completely freaky.  Gotta stop using the tablet for these Forum posts).
« Last Edit: 03/04/2014 06:14 pm by JasonAW3 »
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #427 on: 04/08/2013 09:22 pm »
Because "poachers" is definitely not a problem. It'd take more fuel to get there, it'd be harder to place the asteroid there, there are limited slots, the view isn't as good, and you would have to put the asteroid in a graveyard orbit afterward.
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Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #428 on: 04/08/2013 09:32 pm »
One of the concerns expressed by Bolden about the Asteriod program was the possibility of a policy change of direction after Obama's term.

Even if a commercial asteriod retrival program was canceled if it was organized like COTS or CCP 3 years of $100M budgets and $50M/yr SAA contracts to 2 competing companies could advance their timelines quite a lot.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #429 on: 04/08/2013 11:01 pm »
One of the concerns expressed by Bolden about the Asteriod program was the possibility of a policy change of direction after Obama's term.

Even if a commercial asteriod retrival program was canceled if it was organized like COTS or CCP 3 years of $100M budgets and $50M/yr SAA contracts to 2 competing companies could advance their timelines quite a lot.
Anything significant the Obama team announces now could be canceled by the next Prez. The 2017 robotic launch, though, is short enough time scale that it's possible that it'd get far enough along that it wouldn't be worth canceling. Of course, it's also a pretty ambitious timescale. They'd need to get started ASAP.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #430 on: 04/08/2013 11:04 pm »
One of the concerns expressed by Bolden about the Asteriod program was the possibility of a policy change of direction after Obama's term.

Even if a commercial asteriod retrival program was canceled if it was organized like COTS or CCP 3 years of $100M budgets and $50M/yr SAA contracts to 2 competing companies could advance their timelines quite a lot.
Anything significant the Obama team announces now could be canceled by the next Prez. The 2017 robotic launch, though, is short enough time scale that it's possible that it'd get far enough along that it wouldn't be worth canceling. Of course, it's also a pretty ambitious timescale. They'd need to get started ASAP.
How much change is needed in Planetary Resources hardware concept plans compared to what NASA would need them to do?

Edit:
I assume it will use SEP to bring the asteroid back.
SEP is one of the possible propulsion concepts for a future crewed Mars mission. So that part could be tested out and have a commercial use too.

If the asteroid is bagged then the crew would not have to worry about floating away in space as they would be in the bag too when exploring the asteroid.

Planetary Resources could mine the asteroid shortly after the NASA crew mission that could possible pay for the mission with profit.

So if they can bring a NEA back then they could look at a crew mission to the asteroid as a mini mission before Mars.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2013 11:20 pm by RocketmanUS »

Offline sheltonjr

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #431 on: 04/09/2013 01:43 pm »
What happens to the retrieval space craft after it returns with the asteroid? Can is just be refueled and sent back out for another one?

Would this be our first real reusable deep space hardware?

Offline dcporter

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #432 on: 04/09/2013 03:15 pm »
What happens to the retrieval space craft after it returns with the asteroid? Can is just be refueled and sent back out for another one?

Would this be our first real reusable deep space hardware?

In an ideal world.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #433 on: 04/09/2013 07:24 pm »
What happens to the retrieval space craft after it returns with the asteroid? Can is just be refueled and sent back out for another one?

Would this be our first real reusable deep space hardware?

NASA does not have a legal requirement, nor need, for re-usability.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Lar

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #434 on: 04/09/2013 08:18 pm »

2) water (NASA already buys water from a private company on ISS produced sort of by ISRU using the Sabatier machine on-board)

Where can I read more about that?

The wikipedia article only has hints
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction#International_Space_Station_life_support  (and references back to HERE as a source :) ... http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/10/soyuz-01m-docking-iss-crews-conduct-hardware-installation/  )
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #435 on: 04/16/2013 10:57 am »
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/aerospace/in-depth/your-questions-answered-asteroid-mining/1015966.article
Your questions answered: asteroid mining 8 April 2013 | By Stephen Harris

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #436 on: 04/16/2013 11:11 am »
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/the-coming-space-age/273818/
The Coming Age of Space Colonization James Fallows Mar 20 2013 (interviews Eric Anderson)

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #437 on: 04/16/2013 06:30 pm »
They just signed on Bechtel, per the email update thingy today.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #438 on: 04/25/2013 05:33 am »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #439 on: 05/07/2013 02:46 am »
Article based on the hangout..

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/35092arkyd-100-guts-headed-to-space-in-2014-as-a-cubesat#.UYhqXcq5zDV

2014 flight will be a 3-U Cubesat to test the basic Arkyd 100 systems.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

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