SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) GENERAL DISCUSSION

[sanman]

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

So in other words, you're saying that crewed Dragon would have to be upgraded to include laser docking stuff, so that it can directly dock itself to the station, without resorting to robot arm capture?

[Moe Grills]

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

'Berthing' or 'Docking', you still become one with the ISS for a time.
My crude latin: Pro laborum quo.  "Whatever works".

[catdlr]

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

Maybe a video may help illustrate berthing and docking.

At 1:24 in the video, a dragon cargo is already "berthed" at the ISS CBM, just like it is currently.

At 1:30, a manned Dragon is approaching the ISS for docking at a PMA modified for the Dragon.

[joek]

But the first crewed launch would be 3, not 7 correct?  That'll be a lot less crowded than a Soyuz.

The extra space would probably be filled with cargo (or tourists if NASA allows it). No idea on how many people will be on the first crew launch but NASA wants to fly crews of four.

Commercial crew spec was (is?) four nominal as manboy said, with minimum of 100kg/0.227m³ cargo + 100kg "in any seat location that is not occupied by crewmembers" (up).  Assuming max up is seven people = 4 people + 400kg cargo; or 7 people + 100kg cargo.

[dcporter]

Maybe a video may help illustrate berthing and docking.

OLD-school, tower-LAS! This also explains why the humans in the landing-on-mars video high-fives like they were animated in 2004.

[FinalFrontier]

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

So in other words, you're saying that crewed Dragon would have to be upgraded to include laser docking stuff, so that it can directly dock itself to the station, without resorting to robot arm capture?

Wrong all systems are already in place.

Only upgrades would be PMA system instead of CBM with software upgrades to allow dragon to dock itself instead of being berthed.


And since the crewed dragon is going to be slightly large and quite a bit more powerful courtesy of its super draco engines among other things what your stating is irrelevant anyway.

[Jorge]

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

So in other words, you're saying that crewed Dragon would have to be upgraded to include laser docking stuff, so that it can directly dock itself to the station, without resorting to robot arm capture?

Wrong all systems are already in place.

Only upgrades would be PMA system instead of CBM with software upgrades to allow dragon to dock itself instead of being berthed.

Also relocation of the LIDARs from the GNC bay to the nose, because crew Dragon would perform approach-to-docking nose forward, rather than side-on as the cargo Dragon does for approach-to-berthing. But there will be plenty of room for that because the iLIDS is smaller than the PCBM.

[Lars_J]

This may be old news to some, but I just found Andre Kuipers Flickr photo stream:
http://flickr.com/photos/astro_andre/

Lots of great Dragon capture photos, plus a nice open of the interior.

[manboy]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone but does anyone know if Don Pettit is autistic?

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

'Berthing' or 'Docking', you still become one with the ISS for a time.
My crude latin: Pro laborum quo.  "Whatever works".

But they're distinct terms. If you mean either or, then just say "attach".

  ANSWER: This Dragon rendezvous and robot-arm capture technique that you witnessed in the past couple of days.
A crewed Dragon would do the same thing, wouldn't you think?   

per SpaceX and NASA docking not berthing.

So in other words, you're saying that crewed Dragon would have to be upgraded to include laser docking stuff, so that it can directly dock itself to the station, without resorting to robot arm capture?

Wrong all systems are already in place.

Not really, even if we're just talking about what needs to be done to get Dragon to dock and not the rest of human related requirements. The manned variant will be equipped with the NASA Docking System (NDS) which hasn't even been completed yet and the NDS-adapter won't be launched to the ISS until 2014. Dragon also doesn't have any forward sensors that it will need to dock automatically.

[sanman]

Not really, even if we're just talking about what needs to be done to get Dragon to dock and not the rest of human related requirements. The manned variant will be equipped with the NASA Docking System (NDS) which hasn't even been completed yet and the NDS-adapter won't be launched to the ISS until 2014. Dragon also doesn't have any forward sensors that it will need to dock automatically.

Oh, so who's going to launch this NDS-adapter to the ISS, now that Shuttle is no longer available? Will this be the Europeans, Russians, or Japanese?

Btw, I feel like the trunk should have been called the "tail" instead - just to keep things thematically consistent (which is oh-so-important, you know  )

Btw, how do they retrieve stuff from the trunk when required? Do they have to do an EVA for that? Because it doesn't look like the trunk can dock to the station. Or can they maybe use the robotic arm to open the trunk?

[manboy]

Not really, even if we're just talking about what needs to be done to get Dragon to dock and not the rest of human related requirements. The manned variant will be equipped with the NASA Docking System (NDS) which hasn't even been completed yet and the NDS-adapter won't be launched to the ISS until 2014. Dragon also doesn't have any forward sensors that it will need to dock automatically.

Oh, so who's going to launch this NDS-adapter to the ISS, now that Shuttle is no longer available? Will this be the Europeans, Russians, or Japanese?

Btw, I feel like the trunk should have been called the "tail" instead - just to keep things thematically consistent (which is oh-so-important, you know  )

Btw, how do they retrieve stuff from the trunk when required? Do they have to do an EVA for that? Because it doesn't look like the trunk can dock to the station. Or can they maybe use the robotic arm to open the trunk?

Americans. It will be launched in Dragon's trunk. They use the robotic arm.

[Jim]

Many @ NASA Remember the Challenger 4 flight experience/rule?

No, that is not applicable.   Anyways, which mission is "Challenger 4"?

[Space Pete]

Btw, how do they retrieve stuff from the trunk when required? Do they have to do an EVA for that? Because it doesn't look like the trunk can dock to the station. Or can they maybe use the robotic arm to open the trunk?

Depends on the cargo, but if it is a large item with a grapple fixture, they would use the robot arm, or if it's a smaller payload of FRAM-interface type, and thus has a micro-grapple fixture, they would use Dextre.

That's why they're testing Dextre access to the Dragon trunk today.

[manboy]

Many @ NASA Remember the Challenger 4 flight experience/rule?

No, that is not applicable.   Anyways, which mission is "Challenger 4"?

Here's referring to the certification of Shuttle (STS-1 to STS-4).

Btw, how do they retrieve stuff from the trunk when required? Do they have to do an EVA for that? Because it doesn't look like the trunk can dock to the station. Or can they maybe use the robotic arm to open the trunk?

Depends on the cargo, but if it is a large item with a grapple fixture, they would use the robot arm, or if it's a smaller payload of FRAM-interface type, and thus has a micro-grapple fixture, they would use Dextre.

That's why they're testing Dextre access to the Dragon trunk today.

As always, your insight is appreciated.

[corrodedNut]

Btw, I feel like the trunk should have been called the "tail" instead - just to keep things thematically consistent (which is oh-so-important, you know  )

It could be worse...they could have called it "Draggin' Azz"

(and yes, I have been saving that one)

[Jim]

Many @ NASA Remember the Challenger 4 flight experience/rule?

No, that is not applicable.   Anyways, which mission is "Challenger 4"?

Here's referring to the certification Shuttle (STS-1 to STS-4).

those had nothing to do with Challenger

[manboy]

Many @ NASA Remember the Challenger 4 flight experience/rule?

No, that is not applicable.   Anyways, which mission is "Challenger 4"?

Here's referring to the certification Shuttle (STS-1 to STS-4).

those had nothing to do with Challenger

I know, I'm not defending his reasoning.

[Prober]

Many @ NASA Remember the Challenger 4 flight experience/rule?

No, that is not applicable.   Anyways, which mission is "Challenger 4"?

I was refering to the over exuberance at the start of the Shuttle Progam.   How a few test flights (4?) were transferred into “operational” status?

After the Challenger’s demise a mindset developed within NASA. 

[ugordan]

After the Challenger’s demise a mindset developed within NASA. 

And that is?

[Prober]

After the Challenger’s demise a mindset developed within NASA. 

And that is?

 Risk aversion, but let's not stray too far off topic.