SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) GENERAL DISCUSSION

[sdsds]

Great explanation Pete.

Agreed! Thanks for providing that information in such an easy-to-understand form.

Very unfortunate set of circumstances, not only for SpaceX, but for the crews & the IP's waiting for CRS to get going.

Just to confirm, SpaceX still has the option of descoping the C3 objectives and "just" attempting C2, right? They must be getting overcrowded in their Dragon (not to mention Falcon) warehouse. Their situation isn't "use 'em or lose 'em" by any means, but it's not too different from that since the hardware isn't what's gating their progress....

[robertross]

Just to confirm, SpaceX still has the option of descoping the C3 objectives and "just" attempting C2, right? They must be getting overcrowded in their Dragon (not to mention Falcon) warehouse. Their situation isn't "use 'em or lose 'em" by any means, but it's not too different from that since the hardware isn't what's gating their progress....

Sure, but since we don't know the exact nature of the delay, it could very well mean they have bigger issues that delay the baseline C2 flight.

[sdsds]

it could very well mean they have bigger issues that delay the baseline C2 flight.

Yes, I entirely agree with that. I just wanted to ask whether they can attempt all the C2 objectives whenever they're ready without needing to coordinate their flight with the rather complex VV schedule. (Since C2 wouldn't really "visit" ISS.)

[Jorge]

it could very well mean they have bigger issues that delay the baseline C2 flight.

Yes, I entirely agree with that. I just wanted to ask whether they can attempt all the C2 objectives whenever they're ready without needing to coordinate their flight with the rather complex VV schedule. (Since C2 wouldn't really "visit" ISS.)

C2 comes within the "integrated operations" sphere of ISS so technically it is close enough to a "visit" that it must be deconflicted with the rest of the VV schedule.

[Garrett]

it could very well mean they have bigger issues that delay the baseline C2 flight.

Yes, I entirely agree with that. I just wanted to ask whether they can attempt all the C2 objectives whenever they're ready without needing to coordinate their flight with the rather complex VV schedule. (Since C2 wouldn't really "visit" ISS.)

C2 comes within the "integrated operations" sphere of ISS so technically it is close enough to a "visit" that it must be deconflicted with the rest of the VV schedule.

But surely it would be easier than C2+ as the HTV-3 berthing conflicts would not be an issue?

[Jorge]

it could very well mean they have bigger issues that delay the baseline C2 flight.

Yes, I entirely agree with that. I just wanted to ask whether they can attempt all the C2 objectives whenever they're ready without needing to coordinate their flight with the rather complex VV schedule. (Since C2 wouldn't really "visit" ISS.)

C2 comes within the "integrated operations" sphere of ISS so technically it is close enough to a "visit" that it must be deconflicted with the rest of the VV schedule.

But surely it would be easier than C2+ as the HTV-3 berthing conflicts would not be an issue?

That is true. It would not need to be deconflicted with HTV berthed ops, just HTV rendezvous/departure ops (and rendezvous/departure ops for any other VVs).

[manboytwo]

One of the few good things about this slip is that there will be more crew members onboard to take pictures of Dragon.

[Ben the Space Brit]

One of the few good things about this slip is that there will be more crew members onboard to take pictures of Dragon.

Which isn't just an aesthetic thing, when you think about it.  I'm pretty sure that an visual external survey of the vehicle's condition will be definately a requirement - to see how Dragon handles the real hypersonic transit through the upper atmosphere and whether all fairings, attachements and appendages work and/or survive intact.

[dunderwood]

whether all fairings, attachements and appendages work and/or survive intact

If the fairings are still attached and view-able by the ISS crew, that would be a problem.

[subzero788]

What are you refering to when you say fairings?

[kevin-rf]

I think he's referring to the little yarmulke the dragon sports and tosses once free of the atmosphere...

[kevin-rf]

In an attempt to keep this out of the updates thread,

The Beta Angles to not allow launches in July or August, so once COTS2+  flies, the earliest we can possibly see CRS-1 is early September? How does that bode for CRS-2 in 2012?

For a list of possible launch dates just posted by Space Pete :
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28808.msg894498#msg894498

[Jeff Lerner]

Which isn't just an aesthetic thing, when you think about it.  I'm pretty sure that an visual external survey of the vehicle's condition will be definately a requirement - to see how Dragon handles the real hypersonic transit through the upper atmosphere and whether all fairings, attachements and appendages work and/or survive intact.

...been wondering about that also...the picture of the horizontal Dragon on the NSF home page shows all kinds of "protuberances" sticking out, especially those outrigger boxes for the solar panels....I'm sure it's been tested to some degree but when I see those boxes sticking out, I think backto Skylab losing it's solar array at launch...

[Space Pete]

The Beta Angles to not allow launches in July or August, so once COTS2+  flies, the earliest we can possibly see CRS-1 is early September? How does that bode for CRS-2 in 2012?

Indeed, I think the August date for CRS-1 was merely when SpaceX would be ready launch (as much as I doubt that), and didn't factor in external influences such as the ISS manifest.

Assuming C2+ goes off before September, I would expect CRS-1 in the Sep/Oct/Nov timeframe, and CRS-2 in Q1 2013. That's just my opinion, however.

[spacetraveler]

In an attempt to keep this out of the updates thread,

The Beta Angles to not allow launches in July or August, so once COTS2+  flies, the earliest we can possibly see CRS-1 is early September? How does that bode for CRS-2 in 2012?

For a list of possible launch dates just posted by Space Pete :
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28808.msg894498#msg894498

Very little chance of CRS2 happening this year imo. I think they will be doing well to get CRS1 off given all the issues they've had.

[oiorionsbelt]

Very little chance of CRS2 happening this year imo. I think they will be doing well to get CRS1 off given all the issues they've had.

Agreed, although, the first time is the hardest. The issues have been with software and I believe the Software is the same each flight.
 So assuming they have their hardware production on schedule it's at least possible. However range conflicts, VV conflicts, beta cutouts and the unexpected make it, as you say, very unlikely.

[psloss]

In an attempt to keep this out of the updates thread,

The Beta Angles to not allow launches in July or August, so once COTS2+  flies, the earliest we can possibly see CRS-1 is early September? How does that bode for CRS-2 in 2012?

This is a test flight.  It remains to be seen how things will change for the next flight or the ones after that; however, it's likely that some of the restrictions will change and/or go away over time.

We're a little in the dark on some of the existing restrictions, too -- for example, the every-third-day launch opportunity for this flight has some additional factors that haven't been spelled out.  The previously targeted April 30 and May 7 dates don't exactly fit to that.

[corrodedNut]

Looking at the static fire photo, I noticed how the new 2nd stage barrel stretch is clearly defined by the LOX tank ice. For all intents and purposes, Falcon 9 now has an "instrument unit". I wonder if it's here to stay, even on 5m fairing vehicles.

[oiorionsbelt]

corrodedNut, can/would you draw approx position of the second stage engine bell in this picture please?
Thanks in advance

[corrodedNut]

corrodedNut, can/would you draw approx position of the second stage engine bell in this picture please?
Thanks in advance

Right about where the flag is.