-
#60
by
BrightLight
on 16 Apr, 2013 21:17
-
The SEP concept is widely espoused. MSFC is building the DSH simulator, where is the SEP simulator being built? I'm really glad to see the DSH simulator evolve and hopefully will be integrated with the MMSEV work being done at JSC. I look forward to the SEP simulator as that would suggest a more serious movement towards a workable in-space architecture.
It's called a Boeing 702SP.
It looks like the 702SP series can move about 6000kg, uses roughly 18KW, can they be scaled up to DSH mass of roughly 50,000Kg?
Not directly, but my point is that the technology is pretty mature. A tug that can deliver 50mT through 6 km/s in 250 days uses about 300kW. We've built and tested 100kW thrusters. Using modern solar cells the required array size is less than half that on the ISS. There's no point to building a non-flight simulator. You might as well work on flight hardware. You would certainly want to build an integrated flight-grade propulsion bus (PPU plus thrusters plus propellant feed). However, at that point you're doing a qual program. The required tech is already high TRL. so there's no point in spending the money until you actually have funding committed to go off and build the real deal.
Has the 100kW thruster been tested in a vacuum? Yes, to get 300kW would require a bit less than 800 m
2 which at 29%QE for decent cells would be about half of a ISS solar package, which fits the power-point picture that I posted from the Bookout presentation.
The Keck paper didn't specify the manufacturer of the Hall thruster system - Boeing perhaps? or a competitor such as the Ad Astra VASIMIR? - in any case it appears that a SEP tug is well within existing engineering knowledge, though nice to have a in-space test
.
-
#61
by
BrightLight
on 21 May, 2013 15:42
-
Additional build-up of the EMl DSH at MSFC building 4649 from Paul Bookout web page dated May 21.
I don't know if the two images represent build-out of two separate modules or two different concepts for the same module. In the module 2a image, I believe what appears to be equipment racks in the upper panel and a mock-up of the crew quarters is shown in the lower panel.
In the second image, module 2b a different layout with rack space is shown under construction.
-
#62
by
BrightLight
on 21 May, 2013 15:49
-
In the same Bookout prezi presentation of May 21, 2013 the SLS derived Skylab II outline is shown. Apparently some funds have been allocated for trade studies between ISS derived and SLS derived. My interpretation is that the ISS derived is only for EML conops while the SLS derived Skylab is Earth-orbit (only?). Also there seems to be talk of the mock-up also being built at MSFC building 4649 (thats why I put this post here).
The first image is a quad chart (we all love those don't we) and the second is a notional layout of the pressurized volume - to be mock-upped at MSFC(?).
-
#63
by
newpylong
on 22 May, 2013 14:18
-
If the SLS derived Skylab II was only being studied for LEO why would the slide say "SLS Derived Deep Space Habitat"?
thank you for these, they are great.
-
#64
by
BrightLight
on 22 May, 2013 14:24
-
If the SLS derived Skylab II was only being studied for LEO why would the slide say "SLS Derived Deep Space Habitat"?
thank you for these, they are great.
The issue that I had with the SLS derived DSH is that it is shown repairing satellites - on the other hand it could be at GEO?
-
#65
by
newpylong
on 22 May, 2013 14:56
-
Got it. Great to see some mock-ups being done on it though.
-
#66
by
strangequark
on 22 May, 2013 18:45
-
Has the 100kW thruster been tested in a vacuum? Yes, to get 300kW would require a bit less than 800 m2 which at 29%QE for decent cells would be about half of a ISS solar package, which fits the power-point picture that I posted from the Bookout presentation.
The Keck paper didn't specify the manufacturer of the Hall thruster system - Boeing perhaps? or a competitor such as the Ad Astra VASIMIR? - in any case it appears that a SEP tug is well within existing engineering knowledge, though nice to have a in-space test .
Yes, you don't test them any other way. Boeing makes gridded ion thrusters, not Hall. Aerojet Redmond is the leader on American Hall Effect Thrusters, though Busek has done some good work as well. VASIMR is a 36 year old science experiment that has yet to produce any flight hardware. They only get as much PR as they do because of who runs the company.
-
#67
by
BrightLight
on 23 May, 2013 15:33
-
Has the 100kW thruster been tested in a vacuum? Yes, to get 300kW would require a bit less than 800 m2 which at 29%QE for decent cells would be about half of a ISS solar package, which fits the power-point picture that I posted from the Bookout presentation.
The Keck paper didn't specify the manufacturer of the Hall thruster system - Boeing perhaps? or a competitor such as the Ad Astra VASIMIR? - in any case it appears that a SEP tug is well within existing engineering knowledge, though nice to have a in-space test .
Yes, you don't test them any other way. Boeing makes gridded ion thrusters, not Hall. Aerojet Redmond is the leader on American Hall Effect Thrusters, though Busek has done some good work as well. VASIMR is a 36 year old science experiment that has yet to produce any flight hardware. They only get as much PR as they do because of who runs the company.
Without derailing this thread - yes indeed, the X3 NHT is a 100kW (and potentially more) electric engine, a good choice for the SEP.
-
#68
by
BrightLight
on 23 May, 2013 18:43
-
The Node 1 build-up is apparently occurring at KSC (where?) while the "deep space module" is at MSFC bldg. 4649. I suspect that the internal images I posted earlier was for an older configuration with the 8020 extrusion (top image) while the bottom image is a more mature build.
-
#69
by
Patchouli
on 26 May, 2013 03:05
-
I'm pretty much sold on the Skylab II concept for DSH.
-
#70
by
newpylong
on 26 May, 2013 19:45
-
I'm pretty much sold on the Skylab II concept for DSH.
Me too. A good use of an underutilized asset.
-
#71
by
ClaytonBirchenough
on 27 May, 2013 00:15
-
Great L2 document associated with this article. Nicely written article too!
-
#72
by
robertross
on 11 Jun, 2013 00:40
-
The Node 1 build-up is apparently occurring at KSC (where?)
Probably the old ISS payload processing building.
-
#73
by
robertross
on 11 Jun, 2013 00:46
-
Latest 500 day pretty picture of the DSH from Paul Bookout's April 2013 presentation.
Note the solar panel rotary joints and Orbital Cygnis-like (looks stretched) logistics module
Not that my opinion matters, but when I look at that configuration I can't help but feel that the MPCV is quite vulnerable. I think I mentioned it in another thread, but if it were me I'd encapsulate the MPCV so that it remains as robust as possible during the journey and have a releasable (frangible & manual) cover for the return to Earth. There's a lot of mmod & other dangerous stuff out there (not to mention hard radiation), and keeping your return/escape vehicle safe seems more prudent than anything else.
-
#74
by
newpylong
on 11 Jun, 2013 03:51
-
I believe Orion has micrometeorite shielding?
-
#75
by
BrightLight
on 04 Sep, 2013 19:45
-
Attached is the latest build on the DSH simulator(s).
http://prezi.com/tlrlozbnba7h/concept-demonstrator/From what I have been able to extract there are three potential DSH's; a 500 day single module for exploration(?), a ISS derived DSH - core module and a habitat module derived from a MPLM, and a SLS derived platform. Attached are some figures from the Paul bookout Prezi presentation from August/September of 2013.
fig 1. CAD layout of the concepts in bldg 4649 at MSFC,
Fig 2. existing hardware on the floor for build,
Fig 3. interior of the Core and MPLM derived hab modules,
fig 4. Core and hab modules for the ISS derived DSH at EM-2,
Fig 5. SLS and ISS concepts,
Fig 6. SLS DSH layout,
Fig 7. SLS derived simulator hardware.
-
#76
by
BrightLight
on 04 Sep, 2013 22:55
-
Last minute update of the core module interior - complete
-
#77
by
spectre9
on 04 Sep, 2013 23:24
-
So they took an ET barrel section and turned it into a hab demonstrator?
Cool
-
#78
by
Ronsmytheiii
on 04 Sep, 2013 23:37
-
So they took an ET barrel section and turned it into a hab demonstrator?
Cool
I dont think it is just a demonstrator, perhaps they want to use SLS tank sections as hab modules themselves? Remember, Skylab used S-IVB tanks for the habitat volume, why not use SLS infrastructure to do the same for a large hab module?
-
#79
by
Lars_J
on 04 Sep, 2013 23:51
-
So they took an ET barrel section and turned it into a hab demonstrator?
Cool
No, they would *like* to, it looks like. That appears to just be photos from ET barrel section production.
.
