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#20
by
Robotbeat
on 03 Apr, 2012 02:45
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TRL level is lower if you use a new module type. Personally, I think they should stick with the existing modules for the first round. Launch 'er up to ISS as soon as possible. Get some momentum going.
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#21
by
Patchouli
on 03 Apr, 2012 03:40
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TRL level is lower if you use a new module type. Personally, I think they should stick with the existing modules for the first round. Launch 'er up to ISS as soon as possible. Get some momentum going.
I think block I should be a fly off competition between a traditional ISS module that has been modified and a Bigelow derived module.
This also could be a way for the ESA to make their commitment to ISS they could supply a DSH module.
A double ATV module or a stretched Columbus module would make a good 60 day hab.
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#22
by
Robotbeat
on 03 Apr, 2012 03:42
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Bigelow modules would be better suited for an add-on module, IMHO. You could easily expand the usable volume in that manner.
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#23
by
clongton
on 03 Apr, 2012 23:39
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TRL level is lower if you use a new module type. Personally, I think they should stick with the existing modules for the first round. Launch 'er up to ISS as soon as possible. Get some momentum going.
I think block I should be a fly off competition between a traditional ISS module that has been modified and a Bigelow derived module.
As much as I am totally in favor of Bigelow Inflatables playing a major role going forward, I would respectfully disagree, at least for now.
We know a great deal about ISS-style modules and their capabilities and demonstrated reliabilities. It's perhaps that last item that has the greatest impact on the decision. Bigelow modules are an unknown quantity at this time. For all their advertised capabilities, the only thing that has actually been demonstrated is that they can be inflated in space and maintain their pressure integrity for long periods. But far more reliability than that needs to be actually demonstrated before committing a crew to deep space with the module being their only home for almost 2 years in the case of the 500 day mission.
Bigelow's time is coming, but not yet. His life support systems need long term demonstration before we commit crew's lives to them for long periods far from home.
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#24
by
Robotbeat
on 03 Apr, 2012 23:50
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I should point out that NASA is currently in talks with Bigelow regarding sending one of their habs to EML1. It's not like NASA has forgotten.
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#25
by
manboy
on 04 Apr, 2012 00:45
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Anyway the DSH could be reused for several missions like the Boeing Exploration Gateway Platform plan?
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#26
by
RocketmanUS
on 04 Apr, 2012 03:28
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Will the service tunnel/airlock be added in space or launched with the MPLM 1?
Would it be possible to have the Node 1 and MPLM 2 as one unit ( save mass by eliminating the CBM's between the two )? Would there be any disadvantage to having these two pieces as one unit?
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#27
by
Robotbeat
on 04 Apr, 2012 03:35
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Anyway the DSH could be reused for several missions like the Boeing Exploration Gateway Platform plan?
If you have the delta-v for it, yes it could. Just like ISS has been used for over a decade and probably will operate for a total of 3 decades.
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#28
by
go4mars
on 04 Apr, 2012 12:41
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Bigelow's time is coming, but not yet.
He was born in 1945. Late bloomer?
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#29
by
Ben the Space Brit
on 04 Apr, 2012 12:44
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Bigelow's time is coming, but not yet.
He was born in 1945. Late bloomer?
Well, it isn't entirely his fault; some stuff has taken a lot longer than optimists (and maybe more than a few investors and early adopters) hoped.
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#30
by
spectre9
on 05 Apr, 2012 05:24
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I should point out that NASA is currently in talks with Bigelow regarding sending one of their habs to EML1. It's not like NASA has forgotten.
Didn't Sundancer get cancelled because NASA didn't want it?
Now they do?
Anyway the DSH could be reused for several missions like the Boeing Exploration Gateway Platform plan?
If you have the delta-v for it, yes it could. Just like ISS has been used for over a decade and probably will operate for a total of 3 decades.
DSH will never be going slower than Orion. There's simply no point to have Orion if you want to slow down once back in LEO.
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#31
by
Robotbeat
on 05 Apr, 2012 05:36
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I should point out that NASA is currently in talks with Bigelow regarding sending one of their habs to EML1. It's not like NASA has forgotten.
Didn't Sundancer get cancelled because NASA didn't want it?
Now they do?
That's what I heard. They're just in talks, nothing solid that I'm aware of. Maybe a study or something.
Anyway the DSH could be reused for several missions like the Boeing Exploration Gateway Platform plan?
If you have the delta-v for it, yes it could. Just like ISS has been used for over a decade and probably will operate for a total of 3 decades.
DSH will never be going slower than Orion. There's simply no point to have Orion if you want to slow down once back in LEO.
Huh? It could be staged from EML1, where Orion would stay, not LEO. At least, that's one possible plan that Boeing came up with. Orion would be used for going to and from EML1/2 from and to the Earth's surface. DSH could be used for going from EML1/2 to wherever else beyond Earth orbit and back to EML1/2, thus reused.
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#32
by
BrightLight
on 11 Jan, 2013 17:26
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#33
by
BrightLight
on 11 Jan, 2013 17:49
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Milestones for DSH at the end of FY12 - September 2012.
ISS Derived MSFC Bldg 4649 Concept Demonstrator
The ISS Derived Concept Demonstrator is part of the Advanced Exploration Systems Program, Habitation Systems Project - Deep Space Habitat Definition & Subsystem Maturation. The AES Habitation Systems Project is managed out of JSC.
Project Overview KSC support lead Tracy Gill/KSC Chief Engineer Rene Ortega/EE02 Trade study lead David Smitherman/ED04 Finance analyst Trista Guthrie/TP01 MSFC center support Anne Carter/FP30 Chris Cianciola/FP30 Karen Knight/FP30 Additive Manufacturing Ken Cooper/EM42 Avionics & Communications Porter Clark/ES33 CAD Design/Model/Structures Jared Dervan/ES21 CD Build & Misc Stations David Reynolds/EV74 General Maintenance Workstation and Stowage Adam Dokos/KSC Human Factors & Habitability (Crew Systems) Sally Richardson/EV74 Instrumentation David D. Smith/ES31 Integrated System Health Management Jim Miller/EV43 Lighting Kelly Gattuso/KSC Power Eric Lowery/ES41 Software Jim Cecil/ES52 ISS Derived Subsystem Leads ISS-D Management Team.
FY12 to develop a low-to-medium fidelity concept demonstrator using rapid prototyping techniques to evaluate alternative configurations perform volumetric studies habitability project.
Overview Advance Concept Office 500 Day Configuration
What's involved the Habitat Systems Project will define and mature habitat architectures that enable human exploration of the range of destinations outlined in NASAs Capability Driven Framework.
Milestones & Key Build Event Key Build Events
• Obtained ownership of Build 4649 16 Jan 2012
• KSC Team delivers and installs hardware 20 Aug 2012
• Hab module delivered 24 Jan 2012 MPLM module arrived 18 April 2012
• Module section delivered 08 May 2012
• Misc ISS hardware obtained 06 June 2012
• Tunnel Section Obtained 10 April 2012
• ARES sub scale buckling test eval Module section delivered 08 May
• The Veggie Experiment is planned to fly on Space Station. Additive Manufacturing can be used to create tools, building material, etc while in deep space. Veggie Mockup Demo Additive Manufacturing Demo Power System and Checkout 12 July 2012
• Concept Demonstrator Build Ongoing Software/Avionics/Instru/ISHM demo & dry run 26 July, 09 & 23 Aug 2012
Once completed, the concept demonstrator is to be used for testbed for other AES & OCT technologies flight scenario evaluations understand the key driving mission requirements and limitations resulting In out years, the concept demonstrator will be brought up to a medium-to-high fidelity to support mission scenario testing.
At end of FY12 current Build
• Trade Study Final Report 09 Dec 11
• Kickoff 04 Jan 12 Preliminary Design TIM 28 Feb 12
• Critical Design TIM 05 Apr 12
• Build Process Checkpoint 1 02 July 12
• Software/Avionics DEmo#1 26 July 12 Build Process Checkpoint 2 09 Aug 12
• Software/Avionics Demo#2 09 Aug 12
• Table Top Dry Run 23 Aug 12
• Final Evaluation (current build) 05 Sept 12
Milestones ISS-Derived DSH Roadmap DSH Avionics Testbed at JSC to focus on Systems Maturation avionics, power ,etc. ISS-Derived Concept Demonstrator at MSFC to focus on Habitability Maturation crew habitat interfaces, crew mission test scenarios, etc deep Space Habitat Roadmap. These are two of the demonstrations that was conducted during the Final Eval of current build on 05 Sept 12
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#34
by
manboy
on 11 Jan, 2013 18:16
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#35
by
IRobot
on 11 Jan, 2013 19:35
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My guess is that is will also be metal too. Either a CNC machine (there are compact ones) or a 3D metal printer.
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#36
by
BrightLight
on 11 Jan, 2013 20:53
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FY 13 work plan - note the resource requirements at the end, they need people.
Welcome to the ISS Derived MSFC Bldg 4649 Concept Demonstrator
The ISS Derived Concept Demonstrator is part of the Advanced Exploration Systems Program, Habitation Systems Project - Deep Space Habitat Definition & Subsystem Maturation. The AES Habitation Systems Project is managed out of JSC.
Project Overview KSC support lead Tracy Gill/KSC Chief Engineer Rene Ortega/EE02 Trade study lead David Smitherman/ED04 Finance analyst Trista Guthrie/TP01 MSFC center support Anne Carter/FP30 Chris Cianciola/FP30 Karen Knight/FP30 Additive Manufacturing Ken Cooper/EM42 Avionics & Communications Porter Clark/ES33 CAD Design/Model/Structures Jared Dervan/ES21 CD Build & Misc Stations David Reynolds/EV74 General Maintenance Workstation and Stowage Adam Dokos/KSC Human Factors & Habitability (Crew Systems) Sally Richardson/EV74 Instrumentation Chris Conn/ES31 Integrated System Health Management Jim Miller/EV43 Lighting Kelly Gattuso/KSC Power Eric Lowery/ES41 Software Jim Cecil/ES52 ISS Derived Subsystem Leads ISS-D Management Team
Overview Advance Concept Office 500 Day Configuration.
The Habitat Systems Project will define and mature habitat architectures that enable human exploration of the range of destinations outlined in NASAs Capability Driven Framework.
Milestones & Key Build Event
Milestones ISS-Derived DSH Roadmap
Demonstrations Deep Space Habitat Head Quarters FY13 Milestones
1) “Complete Systems Definition Review for MPLM-based deep space habitat” Hold a SDR and publish proceedings and system definition documents NLT 5/1/2013
2) “Complete MPLM-based habitat demonstrator functional checkout” Run a Systems Integration Test at the Habitat Testbed at JSC NLT 7/1/2013
3) “Integrate mockup ECLSS, power, and avionics subsystems with MPLM-based habitat demonstrator”
• Build volumetric mock-ups of a Node and MPLM interior at MSFC NLT 9/1/2013
• Concepts for a L2 Location Habitat Core
• Node 1 size module Augmentation
• MPLM size module Augmentation Module MPLM size module obtained from the US Space & Rocket Center
Core Module Node 1 size module Tasks for FY13
KSC MPLM Support Structure
• Analysis Node Module Support Structure
• Design, Analysis & Build Module Personnel Platform
• Design, Analysis & Build MSFC Node Primary Structure
• Design, Analysis & Build MPLM Primary Structure
• Analysis (possible additional primary structure) Node Secondary Structure
• Design, Analysis & Build MPLM Secondary Structure
• Design, Analysis & Build
FY13 Allocations Issues/Concerns
• Schedule Requirements from L2 habitat concept slow release
• Alvin Brew (manager for DSH out of JSC) is leaving, replacement has not been announced
• Unclear/conflicting direction from project management
• Resources:
- Lack of additional personnel to support Design and Analysis
- need additional
1 designer 3 months full time, then 0.3 for 3 months during the build
1 stress analyst 3 months full time, then 0.3 for 3 months during the build.
- ES20 is still trying to find support, possibly from outside of ES if available.
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#37
by
sdsds
on 12 Jan, 2013 00:43
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Putting this in Orion, as it's not actually specific to SLS.
I have a question about Orion and its potential role in assembling a modular habitat. If Orion were docked at one end of a node, would it have sufficient control of the combined vehicle to dock the other side of the node to a target?
I think the answer is likely yes, because Orion was tasked with extracting Altair from the EDS, and this would be a similar (though in reverse!) task.
Would any of the potential commercial vehicles (Dreamchaser, CST-100, Dragon) be able to do this safely?
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#38
by
BrightLight
on 04 Apr, 2013 14:50
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Latest 500 day pretty picture of the DSH from Paul Bookout's April 2013 presentation.
Note the solar panel rotary joints and Orbital Cygnis-like (looks stretched) logistics module
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#39
by
HappyMartian
on 04 Apr, 2013 18:14
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Deep Space Habitat Configurations Based On International Space Station Systems David Smitherman / Space Systems Team March 14, 2012
At:
http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Smitherman_3-14-12/Smitherman_3-14-12.pdf"29
MSFC/ED04 – DSH Configurations Based On ISS Systems
•
Environments Protection System
consists of two main components
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External Micrometeoroid Debris
Protection Shield (MDPS),
MPLM-derived
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Interior Radiation Water Wall
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Nominal 60 and 500-Day water wall:
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0.55 cm thick polyethylene tank
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9.9 cm thick water wall
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Total protection = 11 g/cm
2
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Mass = 2850 kg
•
Water wall provides a storm shelter during a Solar Particle Event (SPE)
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Current design does not include protection against Galactic Cosmic Radiation (GCR)"
For long-duration missions Galactic Cosmic Radiation, or GCR, shielding remains the unresolved issue. Passive GCR shielding would be extremely heavy and costly. If active shielding can be made to work, it may require a DSH with a very different design.
