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#80
by
antriksh
on 30 Dec, 2013 12:13
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Thanks for that slide antriksh. Do you know what the Lunar mode is going to be? 20 t in LLO is not enough for both a lander and a capsule, unless perhaps they plan on using a cryogenic stage for staged Lunar descent.
The new vehicle has four 460 t kerolox first stage boosters, 800 t kerolox second stage core, 460 t kerolox third stage and 100 t hydrolox fourth stage (3200 t total). Perhaps they are going to follow NASA's current Lunar plan with two launchers, one with the lander and one with the capsule. That is a bit of over kill in my opinion. Either have one 120-130 t vehicle that can do the mission in a single launch, or two 60-65 t vehicles that can do the mission in two launches. The latter would be my preferred option.
I haven't come across any info on lunar mode, but would like to correct here that the HLV is a 3 stage LV comprising of :
1: 4SC460 (boosters)+ SC800 (First Stage)
2: SC460 (Second Stage)
3:C100 (Third Stage)
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#81
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 31 Dec, 2013 02:54
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If the boosters separate before the core is depleted, then technically its a four stage vehicle. If the boosters and core separate at the same time, then its a three stage vehicle.
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#82
by
vyoma
on 31 Dec, 2013 11:15
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Wow, here comes a clarification from ISRO about "Man to Moon" mission hype:
Media reports on "Manned Mission to Moon"
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has entered into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM), Indian Air Force, Bangalore in March 2009 to carry out
i) Basic research/studies on Human Physiological and Psychological requirements for Human Space Flight crew and
ii) For augmenting/updating existing facilities at IAM to cater to ISRO's Human Space Flight Programme as a pre project Research & Development activity.
ISRO currently does not have any project on "Man to Moon". The scope of the MOU between ISRO and IAM does not envisage recruitment of crew for ISRO.
http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Dec31_2013
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#83
by
ss1_3
on 31 Dec, 2013 13:00
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Unbelievable!! Why on earth did those two air force officers went on air to talk about it?? Hopefully, they'll be grilled by IAF with an explanation sought for their statements.
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#84
by
sanman
on 31 Dec, 2013 13:29
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#85
by
vyoma
on 08 Jan, 2014 17:28
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Here's some tidbit about Indian human spaceflight program:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692"As far as human space flight is concerned, we are just at the beginning- at the moment we are studying the critical technologies required for that like- crew escape system, crew module... these are the things we have not done in the past," Mr Radhakrishnan said... "As and when we take up a programme of human space flight- this will help us."
He said "in the GSLV Mark III - the experimental mission is going to happen in April 2014..."
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#86
by
sanman
on 08 Jan, 2014 21:37
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Yeah, other outlets confirming the same announcement:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379428/human-space-flight-work-underway.htmlIndia’s human space flight (HSF) programme is some years away, but preliminary work has begun, Isro Chairman K Radhakrishnan told reporters at the Isro Satellite Integration and Testing Establishment, Marathhalli, on Wednesday.
Studies on crew vehicle, escape system and re-entry into earth’s atmosphere are underway and funds have been released for initial work. “The HSF programme has begun. It is in the initial stage. We have to learn and make certain technologies especially for re-entry into earth’s atmosphere. These are critical technologies and have to be mastered to obtain 100 per cent accuracy.”
www.ptinews.com/news/4301707_Hman-spaceflight-prog-is-at-beginning-stage--ISRO-.htmlIt looks like the cryo engine success has cleared the way for more progress on human spaceflight and reusable launch technologies.
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#87
by
chota
on 09 Jan, 2014 08:14
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Is the media confusing us with "Man to Moon" instead of "Man to Space" ?
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#88
by
sanman
on 09 Jan, 2014 14:08
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The media are confused themselves - mainly due to their desire to say anything that gets them more viewers.
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#89
by
vyoma
on 11 Jan, 2014 02:36
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ISRO to test crew module in GSLV Mk3 X1, in April 2014:
When GSLV Mk-III will be tested in three months' time, the heavy-duty rocket will fly the module to an altitude of about 120 km to see if it is safe for human flight. “GSLV Mk-III will carry the crew module to study re-entry and thermal behaviour,” said Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan here on Friday.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379831/india-test-human-crew-space.html
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#90
by
vyoma
on 12 Jan, 2014 03:34
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Crew Module status from ISRO
2012-13 annual report:
Pre Project activities of Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP)
The objective of Human Spaceflight Programme is to undertake a human spaceflight mission to carry a crew of two to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) and return them safely to a predefined destination on earth.
The programme is proposed to be implemented in defined phases. Currently, the pre project activities are progressing with a focus on the development of critical technologies for subsystems such as Crew Module (CM), Environmental control and Life Support System (ECLSS), Crew Escape System, etc.
As part of pre project activities, drop test of full scale Crew Module were conducted successfully to understand the deceleration characteristics and validate the estimated values of ‘g’ level, touchdown velocity and depth of penetration. Scale models of Crew Module have been realised for heat transfer studies, plasma wind tunnel tests and aero-ballistic range tests were conducted. Mortar based parachute ejection and deployment tests carried out in single and clustered configuration. Environmental simulation chamber has been realised for testing of ECLSS functional modules and flight suit systems. Flight suit has been successfully tested in vacuum chamber for leak rate assessment and material compatibility under vacuum conditions.
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#91
by
AJA
on 12 Jan, 2014 05:54
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http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379831/india-test-human-crew-space.html
The Indian Space Research Organisation had developed specialised space travel chambers covered with an indigenous heat-resistant tile to carry human crew to space.
Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?
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#92
by
johnxx9
on 12 Jan, 2014 10:40
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Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?
I would say they won't be reused. The thing is there has been a lot of research that has gone into heat resistant tiles. Why heat resistant tiles? Aimed at India's RLV program. So, I think ISRO is doing a good thing by making use of technologies on which they have already done a significant amount of work rather than start from the scratch.
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#93
by
antriksh
on 12 Jan, 2014 12:45
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Latest in ISRO research from papers in SAROD 2013
1) Aerodynamics of Separating Crew Module from Crew Escape Vehicle
2) Experimental Investigation of Impacts of Deviations in Reentry Thermal Protection Systems Using Plasma Wind Tunnel Facility
3) Studies of Heat Flux and Surface Pressure Distribution on Blunt Bodies under Simulated Reentry Thermal Regimes Using Plasma Wind Tunnel Facility
4) Experimental investigation of Aero Induced Fluctuating Pressure Environments on Various Configurations of a Generic Launch Vehicle Forebody
5) Hypersonic Flow Over Hemisphere Blunt Nose Body with Aerodisk
6) Qualification of Repaired Ceramic Tile Thermal Protection System (TPS) for Re-entry Environment
7) Heat Flux Computations Over a Typical Re-entry Crew Module Under Shock Tunnel Conditions
8 ) Robust Lateral-Directional Flight Control Design for Reentry Vehicles
9) Assessment of Wind Turbulence Effects on Re-entry Vehicle using 6DOF Trajectory Simulator
10) Merit and Demerits of Central Sting Over Twin Sting on the Aerodynamics of Launch Vehicles
Using CFD
11) Investigation of Jet Effect on Aerodynamics of a Launch Vehicle in Supersonic Freestream
12) Analysis of Fluctuating Pressure over a Double Delta Wing in Separated Flows (related to RLV)
13) Flush Air Data System (FADS) Algorithm for Onboard Implementation (related to RLV)
14) Aerodynamic Parameter Estimation of Re-entry Vehicle in Longitudinal Plane using Filter Error
Method with Multistep Inputs (related to RLV)
15) Flow Field Analysis of Rocket Motor Employing Twin Engines, Over a Jet Deflector during the
Static Tests
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#94
by
Prober
on 12 Jan, 2014 21:39
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I'm impressed with what India is getting for their cash investment. Sure more cash is wanted/needed. But for the resources available the finished work is impressive.
All we need do is look at India's Mars mission.
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#95
by
sanman
on 13 Jan, 2014 00:48
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I was recently shocked to learn that ISRO's budget is the same as China's space agency. In which case, China's certainly getting a lot out of the budget. But even still, a country of their economic size and level of development should be spending much more on space than India is. I wonder why they don't spend more, when they can easily afford to?
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#96
by
hop
on 13 Jan, 2014 02:08
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I was recently shocked to learn that ISRO's budget is the same as China's space agency.
Source? I would strongly suspect this isn't an apples to apples comparison.
It's quite clear China expends far more resources on space: More launches, bigger rockets, more launch centers, and active HSF program...
If you are comparing CNSA to ISRO, this might explain it because AFAIK much of Chinese space activity is done by the PLA, while Indian space activity really is all under ISRO. China is also much less transparent about actual budgets.
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#97
by
sanman
on 13 Jan, 2014 03:01
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#98
by
antriksh
on 13 Jan, 2014 03:05
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#99
by
faramund
on 13 Jan, 2014 05:12
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This is where I read it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_agencies#Budgets
seriously?
Although to be fair, the ISRO figure is probably reasonably accurate, in the past I've read their budget documents and they are close to the given figure.
China is much more opaque. The basis of wikis figure, is a Euroconsult report, and I can't say anything else is widely available that gives any figure that's clearly better. Although to have a program the size that they have for ~$1b does seem odd (although taking into account PPP its more like $2b)
Perhaps one reason for the difference is that ISROs budget seems to be on a sharply rising trajectory, and so they haven't had this much money to work with for very long, and if they get GSLV3 and a human spacecraft project in the next few years, they will seem much more similar to China.
