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#340 by sanman on 07 Jul, 2018 23:23
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Next month, ISRO to produce internal document outlining technology development requirements for future human spaceflight:
https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/isro-to-prepare-document-under-human-spaceflight-programme-in-months-time-says-isro-chairman/1235373/QuoteDays after it successfully carried out a flight test for a new system, meant for saving lives of astronauts in an exigency, ISRO today said it would approve in a month’s time an ‘internal document’ on developing crucial technologies under its Human Spaceflight Programme. “No human spaceflight programme has been approved in India yet. We had prepared the document to develop crucial technologies in 2004. Now we are in the process of revising it. In a month’s time, we will approve our internal document,” ISRO Chairman Dr K Sivan told reporters after the 11th annual Katre Memorial Lecture here.
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#341 by Steven Pietrobon on 08 Jul, 2018 01:45
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So, will these "crucial technologies" result in a flight ready crew capsule? :-)
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#342 by sanman on 08 Jul, 2018 04:25
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Hmm, well the estimates on the timeline seem to vary.
A previous ISRO chairman, Dr K Radhakrishnan says that a manned spaceflight could be done in 6-7 years once there is a national mandate for it:
https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/the-interviews-blog/given-a-national-mandate-india-could-target-the-first-human-flight-in-space-within-next-6-7-years/
But according to current ISRO officials, it would be another 10 years at least before a manned spaceflight could occur:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/manned-mission-isros-dream-still-a-long-way-away/articleshow/64897407.cms
At least pieces are being put into place, pending official approval and a full-on effort. -
#343 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 05:43
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As mentioned in other threads, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his Independence Day speech, has announced that India will carry out a manned spaceflight mission by (or before) 2022:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-to-launch-first-manned-space-mission-by-2022-pm-modi/articleshow/65410373.cms
For Indians, this is like JFK's speech exhorting Americans to go to the Moon.
The mission will be called Gaganyaan. -
#344 by Steven Pietrobon on 15 Aug, 2018 06:09
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The name of the crewed spacecraft is "Gaganyaan".
"When India celebrates 75th year of Independence in 2022, an Indian son or daughter will undertake a manned space mission on board 'Gaganyaan' carrying the national flag," the PM announced from the ramparts of the Red Fort. This would make India the fourth nation to send a human in space after the United States, Russia and China." -
#345 by Phillip Clark on 15 Aug, 2018 06:36
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Will Iran beat India?
And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme? -
#346 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 06:51
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No idea - but India doesn't want to be left behind in the race to space - and it's always possible that achieving the manned spaceflight goal may open up new ones.
I'm wondering which launch vehicle will be used - will it be GLSV-Mk2, or GSLV-Mk3?
I'm assuming it will be the latter, although if the crew capsule weighs ~4000kg, then both would be capable of lofting that to LEO.
Given the milestones that have been hit so far on the road to a manned mission, I wonder which further milestones within that are still yet to be done, in order for ISRO to be ready?
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#347 by abhishek on 15 Aug, 2018 06:56
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Will Iran beat India?
And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?
Iran's space capabilities are very rudimentary as compared to India and given the state of their economy,it would not be possible for them to pursue a manned space program at present.
As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.
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#348 by Phillip Clark on 15 Aug, 2018 07:09
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As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.
When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals. When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.
But India has no declared space station programme. So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?
And Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited. Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available? -
#349 by worldtimedate on 15 Aug, 2018 07:16
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Will Iran beat India?
And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?
It is the pride of 1.20 billion people. India has been running the space program since the 1970s despite sanctions being imposed by the USA- led various technology denial regime. Human Space flight mission is not like sending a monkey to Space. Argentina sent a monkey on December 23, 1969. Correct me If I am wrong. What happened later vis-a-vis Space Program is known to you. India left Argentina decades behind. Manned mission is not a child's play. But India should have done technological preparation long ago.
Had Mrs. Indira Gandhi been there as a Prime Minister, India should have reached the goal by now I think, India - a nation with 1.20 billion people - with his burgeoning space program deserve to send a man to space. But India needs a man-rated launch vehicle. GSLV MK-III needs to have a 100% 8 to 9 successfull mission besides being manrated. The recent successful crew escape system test is the first step. RLV is not required for launching a manned mission. I don't know why some Indian Newspapers are attaching RLV to manned mission.
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#350 by PonRam on 15 Aug, 2018 07:35
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As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.
When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals. When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.
But India has no declared space station programme. So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?
And Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited. Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available?
As far as LEO, space tourism could certainly be on the anvil. With low costs they can certainly compete. India does not seem to want to go for space stations, but they certainly have ambitions to build permanent structures on the Moon. Director of ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC) M. Annadurai said “We are seriously planning to use Moon as an outpost – like missions in Antarctica. In the long run the space station is likely to be scrapped. Many countries, including the US, are considering building more permanent structures on the Moon and working out of there. When it happens, we want India to have contributed”.
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#351 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 07:48
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When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals. When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.
India is not the United States or Soviet Union, which were nowhere near as resource-constrained as India.
Naturally, the US & USSR could declare more sweeping goals, because they had much larger resources available to them.
India won't publically pin itself to goals that are beyond its means, and is instead more likely to pursue an incremental approach. That doesn't mean that higher goals won't eventually gradually appear, it just means they won't be committed to upfront.
Do you remember why NASA announced a "Flexible Path" strategy for its goals? It was in part due to the challenges that had emerged in securing sustainable funding commitments for big goals. That's why NASA hasn't sent people beyond Earth orbit in many decades. Approaches that were taken during the initial US-Soviet space race weren't really feasible anymore. Rather than evolving into such problems down the road, India faces these resource challenges from the start. That should be obvious - at least it is to me.QuoteBut India has no declared space station programme. So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?
There's no question of India trying to sign on with China's space station. India will unveil any further agenda for manned orbital activities on its own timetable, as its capabilities progress. As pending goals are met, then newer ones can be created - whether it's for manned or unmanned missions should make no difference in that regard. When India sent its first probe to the Moon, did anybody ask what longer set of goals were on the cards? No - but that didn't stop a second lunar mission from being created later on, as a natural follow-on. Same thing for Mangalyaan - there's a next mission being discussed, even if it's not been approved or committed to.QuoteAnd Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited. Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available?
Might depend on cost - although I don't see India has any agenda for space tourism in its plans.
Again, I don't see why manned spaceflight should require some much longer-term set of goals to be declared upfront, as compared to unmanned missions. As resource margins grow, then perhaps longer-term plans could be committed to, but until then I don't see what's wrong with incremental progress. -
#352 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 08:41
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Comments from the ISRO chief:
http://www.india.com/news/india/gaganyaan-mission-deadline-looks-tough-but-india-has-capability-says-scientist-3224421/QuoteGaganyaan Mission: ISRO Says Already on Job, Working Towards Meeting PM's Target
Mumbai, Aug 15: In his Independence Day address to the nation, Prime Minister Narendra Modi promised to put an Indian in space by 2022 via an indigenous spacecraft. Reacting, the chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has said they were on the job already. “The PM has given the target of 2022 and it is our duty to meet it. We are already on the job…we have completed many technologies like crew module and escape systems. The project has been underway, now we need to prioritise and achieve the target,” K Sivan told ANI on Gaganyaan 2022 mission. -
#353 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 08:59
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Sivan says they'll use GSLV-Mk3 for the Gaganyaan mission. The manned flight would be preceded by at least 2 more unmanned flights.
https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/national/2018/08/15/del53-iday-gaganyaan-isro.htmlQuoteTechnology to send astronauts to space already developed ISRO on Gaganyaan PTI August 15, 2018 14:07 IST
New Delhi, Aug 15 (PTI) Technologies that will help in sending an Indian astronaut to space - like human crew module and environment control and life support system - have already been developed, ISRO chairman K Sivan said today.
Prior to the actual launch by 2022, the Indian Space Research Organisation will have two unmanned missions and spacecraft will be fired using Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark-III, Sivan said.
"We have already developed the technology like human crew module, environment control and life support system. Before undertaking the launch, we will have two unmanned missions. We will use GLSV Mark-III for this project," Sivan told PTI.
His remarks came after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced in his Independence Day address that India will attempt a manned mission into space by 2022 on board 'Gaganyaan'.
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K Radhakrishnan, former ISRO chairman under whose leadership the Mangalyaan mission was launched in 2013, termed the announcement of Gaganyaan mission a "turning point" for ISRO.
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#354 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 09:11
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Some Q & A with ISRO chairman Dr K Sivan on the Gaganyaan mission:
https://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/technology/four-years-is-tight-but-can-achieve-the-human-spaceflight-isros-k-sivan/65411891QuoteFour years is tight, but can achieve the human spaceflight: ISRO's K Sivan
"We have developed a crew module that can carry three people. We will initiate the work with the Indian Air Force to identify the people for the human spaceflight mission" said ISRO chairman K Sivan
Raghu Krishnan | ETtech | August 15, 2018, 12:53 IST
Prime Minister Narendra Modi announcement in his Independence day address that India will launch a human spaceflight by 2022 gives a formal seal to a proposal that was initiated over a decade by India's space agency.
Since then, Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has been developing the building blocks in technologies that would help achieve a mission.
"We have already developed most of the technologies," Dr K Sivan, Isro chairman told ET's Raghu Krishnan in an interview. Edited Excerpts:
The Prime Minister has set 2022 for a human spaceflight. How confident are you to achieve this?
Four years is tight but doable. We have built the technologies that is required for a human spaceflight. We will prepare a project and achieve the mission within the deadline.
How many crew members will be on the human spaceflight?
We have developed a crew module that can carry three people. We will initiate the work with the Indian Air Force to identify the people for the human spaceflight mission.
What is the cost of the mission. Initial proposals talked about Rs 10,000 crore?
It will be lesser than that. We have already developed most of the technologies. What we need is to invest in building the systems and the infrastructure.
How will you raise the budget?
The Prime Minister has just announced the programme. We will send a detailed report to the government for the required funds. There has been no budget constraint for space programmes.
Which is the rocket earmarked for the human spaceflight mission?
It will be Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk-III (GSLV-MKIII). It will be manrated to carry 10 tonne payload to lower earth orbit. The actual payload will be lesser than that. We are already launching unmanned missions with this rocket.
Does Isro have the resources to do a human spaceflight in four years?
We will involve the private industry and academia in this mission. We have established partners in the indsutry who will be able to deliver the required equipment within the deadline. Isro will largely do the programme management.
There are gaps in the man machine interface in the crew module?
We are working on it. There is enough expertise in the industry that we will utilise for crew module to undertake a safe mission. -
#355 by Steven Pietrobon on 15 Aug, 2018 09:13
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Will Iran beat India?
Iran's spacecraft is a one person capsule similar to Mercury, so much less ambitious than India's Gaganyaan. If they go all out, they might be able to do a suborbital flight on Simorgh above 100 km before India. For orbital flight, they'll need a bigger launch vehicle than Simorgh, which will take time to get developed. By the time that is ready, India will probably have Gaganyaan in orbit.QuoteAnd apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?
No sure, but one benefit would be to inspire students to focus more on STEM.
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#356 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 10:39
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'No less than seven days in space' says Sivan
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-will-put-man-in-space-for-seven-days-says-isro-chairman-after-modi-announces-space-mission-in-independence-day-speech/story-uYmUwOyXzCemKyd1APTmhP.htmlQuoteFor the first time, India’s space agency is planning to put an Indian astronaut for seven days in space at a cost less than Rs 10,000 crore as part of its manned mission by 2022, ISRO chairman K Sivan said on Wednesday.
With Prime Minister Narendra Modi giving the Indian Space Research Organisation the target to be achieved in the next four years, Sivan told IANS: “Our plan is to have a human being in space for seven days and not less than that.”
“He will be in a spacecraft, 300-400 km above earth,” Sivan said, as he explained that the rocket to be used for the manned mission would be a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark III (GSLV-Mk III). He said the first unmanned flight as part of a manned space mission will happen two years from now.
“There will be two unmanned space missions before the actual manned space mission,” Sivan added.
In his Independence Day address to the nation, Modi said: “In space technology, we have dreamt something; our scientists have dreamt something. And I am happy to announce that by 2022, the 75th Independence year, we are planning a manned space mission.”
Asked about the first animal flight before the actual manned mission, Sivan said those things have to be discussed.
Queried about the target date set by Modi and the steps to be taken by ISRO, Sivan said: “We will have to get a formal approval for the project. The manned mission project cost will be less than Rs 10,000 crore... We are in the process of developing some of the technologies and already have some. Our idea is to develop everything within India.”
According to him, ISRO has already tested the crew module and crew escape systems. The space agency on July 5 carried out a successful maiden pad abort test at its spaceport Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh for the safe escape of the crew in an emergency. “The technology is very essential for our manned missions in the future,” Sivan had said at an event on July 7.
The critical technology is designed to quickly pull the crew module along with the astronauts to a safe distance from the launch vehicle in the event of a launch abort.
“We are in the process of developing the life support system for the astronaut, space suit and other things. ISRO is doing this with the support of industries,” Sivan had said.
The ISRO chairman had then said that the space agency was “not close” to a human spaceflight yet. “We are not close to that. We need to work a lot towards achieving the dream of putting a man in space.”
According to him, the selection of astronaut to fly the spacecraft would be done by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the spaceflight training would be given overseas.
Sivan said ISRO has to set up necessary infrastructural facilities like the control centres for the proposed manned mission. He added Modi’s announcement was a big kickstart and as a whole the nation’s science and technology sector would benefit.
So far, only the US, Russia and China have launched human space flights. -
#357 by sanman on 15 Aug, 2018 12:31
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On Independence Day, Modi promises Indian manned space mission
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/asia/india-manned-space-flight-intl/index.html
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#358 by RonM on 15 Aug, 2018 15:39
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And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?
National prestige is important for foreign policy (soft power). It could be as simple as checking off another box for the major world power club. For example, the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and India are the only world powers with ballistic missile submarines. India would join the even more elite human spaceflight club.
Being able to send crews to ISS, China's space station, or any commercial space station would be a viable program. It also opens the possibility of joining future international missions. -
#359 by ncb1397 on 15 Aug, 2018 17:19
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When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals. When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.
India is not the United States or Soviet Union, which were nowhere near as resource-constrained as India.
Naturally, the US & USSR could declare more sweeping goals, because they had much larger resources available to them.
India GDP is 2.6 trillion. GDP of U.S. in 1960 adjusted for inflation was 4.67 trillion. GDP of Soviet Union in 1970 was 2.88 trillion. Current Russian GDP is 1.5 trillion. This suggests that anything short of interplanetary is within reach for India to at least attempt.
