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#100 by sanman on 13 Jan, 2014 06:50
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Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?
I would say they won't be reused. The thing is there has been a lot of research that has gone into heat resistant tiles. Why heat resistant tiles? Aimed at India's RLV program. So, I think ISRO is doing a good thing by making use of technologies on which they have already done a significant amount of work rather than start from the scratch.
Ablative is not that difficult, and India has researched phenolic coatings, etc. SRE-1 had the silica tiles on it as well as the phenolic ablative coating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Capsule_Recovery_ExperimentQuoteTo withstand the heat of re-entry, the cone-shaped SRE-1 has a heat shield composed of silica tiles over much of the surface, and an ablative nose cap of carbon-phenolic composite. ISRO is also working on technology to manufacture carbon-carbon composite heat shields, which, along with the silica tiles tested with the SRE-1, could find use in future reusable spacecraft such as ISRO's planned Reusable Launch Vehicle.
Well, if SpaceX can seek to re-use capsules, why can't ISRO work towards that? Their goal is to keep costs down, after all, and reusability is a big help for that. -
#101 by AJA on 13 Jan, 2014 14:44
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ISRO isn't budget limited.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692
Quote... Parliamentary Standing Committee on Science & Technology, Environment and Forest that reviewed ISRO programmes in Bangalore ....
Speaking to reporters after the review, Parliamentary Standing Committee Chairman T Subbarami Reddy commended the recent achievements of ISRO for the successful launch of Mars Orbit Mission and GSLV-D5 with indigenous cryogenic engine.
Stating that adequate funds are being allocated for the scientific sector in the country, he said "we must focus more towards developing good scientists."
He said young people should be encouraged towards science and scientists should be given special salaries, special incentives, and special encouragements. His committee is recommending the same, Mr Reddy added.
Sure, you can contest the neutrality of the statement, given that it comes from the one of the guys ostensibly controlling the purse strings within the government(though..not really...given that he's in the Rajya Sabha)(EDIT: I take that back, his total net worth is at 258 crores+, third, amongst current RS members. I assume that gives him some clout in terms of bank-rolling election expenditure), but
a) he's an industrialist himself (So, some experience with how large funds translate into work there)
b) the sentiment was echoed in the AMA that the three ISRO scientists (albeit recent graduate joinees, as opposed to old hands) did.
http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/cejk5ov (Although, they did ask for PRIS benefits - http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/ceiogeb)
c) Other luminaries have also mentioned (CNR Rao, and Dr M S Swaminathan, at NDTV's 25 Indian Legends event, being the most recent examples) that bottlenecks to scientific development lay in talent recruitment and retention -- education, and attracting people to science.
Now, it's probably tempting for people to tie this to funding: with the argument that more funding allows the provision of competitive, attractive compensation packages. But, R&D demands utmost cognitive investment. Incentivising people will not work. , "Pay them enough to take the issue of money off the table", and then clear the path for them to express their internal drive.
Personally, I don't recall ISRO ever having to stop the pursuit of a project, or redact a program because the government withdrew funding for it. I think they've always managed to get the money, whenever they've submitted a request.
The programs, and the scientific sector in the country is know-how limited, and promulgating scientific literacy as well as STEM fascination is where, IMO, the thrust ought to be directed. We've always known that rockets are awesome for that
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#102 by faramund on 13 Jan, 2014 18:17
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ISRO isn't budget limited.
What does this mean? I've heard that during the battle of Britain, that Spitfire production became essentially budget unlimited (i.e. they could spend anything, but there were other limiting resources).
Following on.. do you mean, the government says.. develop say GSLV3, and they can spend whatever it takes?
Just some quick googling...
http://rt.com/news/india-space-satellite-budget-331/
has
Though its budget is less than one-tenth that of NASA's, it has increased every year since the early 2000s, jumping from $591 million in 2004 to 2005, to $1.3 billion in 2012 to 2013.
and at
http://www.isro.org/scripts/account.aspx
there appear to be budget documents.
In particular, the Fund Allocation link, gives a pdf that contains
Budget at a Glance
(Rs. in Crores)
Sl.
No AREA BE 2012-2013 RE 2012-2013 BE 2013-2014
1 Space Technology 4068.11 2885.38 3869.65
2 Space Applications 758.59 602.52 686.47
3 INSAT Operational 1220.87 960.70 1580.21
4 Space Sciences 471.75 330.13 521.29
5 Direction & Administration
and Other Programmes 195.68 101.27 134.38
Grand Total 6715.00 4880.00 6792.00
Anyway.. I'm curious? -
#103 by sanman on 13 Jan, 2014 18:24
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I think that what AJA meant was that ISRO's current limitations and obstacles are not due to its budget, primarily. Its main obstacles and challenges are in other areas. Although certainly, anyone will always want a larger budget to do more, it's also a matter of putting existing resources to best use.
On the issue of merit-based pay, which AJA and one of the 3 ISRO engineers mentioned, I really think that would be great. Currently, ISRO recruitment is compliant with ethnic affirmative action quota reservation policies, as required under Indian law. However, promotion and advancement is supposed to be based on merit.
Anyway, I realize it's off-topic. Not sure whether such discussion belongs in the Policy forum, since that mainly seems be centered on US policy. I dunno if we can have our own mini policy thread under this Indian launchers forum? Bah, anyway merit pay is only one small aspect of Indian space policy discussion. -
#104 by faramund on 13 Jan, 2014 18:48
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Thanks sanman, that makes sense
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#105 by antriksh on 13 Feb, 2014 10:48
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Crew Module structural assembly
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#106 by vyoma on 14 Feb, 2014 03:16
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HAL hands over crew module assembly to ISRO:
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/human-space-flight-prog-hal-hands-over-crew-module-assembly-to-isro/article5685195.ece -
#107 by antriksh on 14 Feb, 2014 06:58
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Human space flight abort initiation stages
1. Abort to earth using Crew Escape System
2. Abort to earth using service module propulsion
3. Abort to orbit
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#108 by kicaj on 14 Feb, 2014 17:55
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whether capsule will have a hatch for connection with another object? for example ISS?
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#109 by antriksh on 15 Feb, 2014 02:10
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whether capsule will have a hatch for connection with another object? for example ISS?
Its planned, but when will it be in place can not say. ISRO is planning to conduct RVD experiment with two satellites. I guess, this will help in development of docking interface. Still a long way to go. We need to first send humans to space. -
#110 by Lars_J on 15 Feb, 2014 03:51
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Crew Module structural assembly
Thanks for the pictures. It looks like in interesting hybrid between Dragon and Orion. (The outside lines are close to Dragon, but the structural components/parts are located closer to the way they are on Orion) -
#111 by antriksh on 15 Feb, 2014 11:16
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Crew Module structural assembly
Thanks for the pictures. It looks like in interesting hybrid between Dragon and Orion. (The outside lines are close to Dragon, but the structural components/parts are located closer to the way they are on Orion)
It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?
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#112 by newpylong on 16 Feb, 2014 00:13
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Very cool. Best of luck ISRO.
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#113 by Steven Pietrobon on 16 Feb, 2014 04:14
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It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?
I think these are structural beams and not compartments. These could be to take the load from the escape tower during launch and abort. -
#114 by antriksh on 16 Feb, 2014 06:00
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It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?
I think these are structural beams and not compartments. These could be to take the load from the escape tower during launch and abort.
I mean the beams are dividing the module into 6 sectors. Perhaps each sector will house a crew or subsytems? I looked into Orion module design and could found 3 beams.
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#115 by heinkel174 on 16 Feb, 2014 06:50
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That's not an Orion capsule, real capsule does not have those columns. It looks like the boilerplate used in Ares-I X launch.
I believe the Indian craft we saw here is also a boilerplate. -
#116 by Lars_J on 16 Feb, 2014 06:57
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Yep, I think those columns are just extra structural support for the early test flight, to simplify matters.
A real flight version with crew would need those to be relocated or removed, otherwise there would be usable cabin volume. -
#117 by antriksh on 16 Feb, 2014 10:27
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That's not an Orion capsule, real capsule does not have those columns. It looks like the boilerplate used in Ares-I X launch.
I believe the Indian craft we saw here is also a boilerplate.
Thanks -
#118 by vyoma on 19 Feb, 2014 08:21
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Some tidbits:
http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=national&id=NN4455QuoteISRO is now also developing Space Suit for astronauts. Crew modules are also being developed simultaneously.
QuoteIn a written reply, he told the House that configuration design, thermal protection system, water impact tests and plasma wind tunnel tests of the crew module have been completed. Another notable success is the completion of pressure and mobility tests, vacuum chamber tests and material compatibility, the Minister added.
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#119 by plutogno on 19 Feb, 2014 09:21
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have any objective of the Indian manned spaceflight program been revealed?
does it have any particular objective other than national pride?
