Appying for a Job at SpaceX

[shuttle_buff]

I've recently tried to apply for an open position at SpaceX (McGregor, TX) and nothing after two months. Then I found out by checking "open positions" on the http://www.spacex.com web site the job is gone (filled I guess).

OK, well I do have a job with the third largest aerospace firm in the US and I am well paid so I'm assuming SpaceX wants "quantity" and not "quality" people?

This is the second job I've applied for. I'm fully qualified for both but I am senior. And senior can be expensive. Hmmm...

Whatever the case. I'm geting the impression SpaceX wants young, 25 to 35 somethings max for jobs?

Anybody else tried applying for a job at SpaceX?

[ChefPat]

Anybody else tried applying for a job at SpaceX?

Sure, I applied for the Chef's position when they opened up the Dining Room at the Hawthorne factory & didn't get it.
When they put out the call for a Chef on the Lunar Cruiser, the Mars Cycler & the Mars Base I'll apply for those positions as well.
I won't call for the Wambulance if I don't get them either.

[Lars_J]

OK, well I do have a job with the third largest aerospace firm in the US and I am well paid so I'm assuming SpaceX wants "quantity" and not "quality" people?

Have you considered the possibility that perhaps they found someone they considered more "quality" than you?

I don't think that age by itself is such a huge factor for them, but I'd speculate instead that too much time spent working for existing aerospace giants would make transitioning to their corporate mindset more of a hurdle.

[Antares]

SpaceX wants people with entrepreneurial thinking.  If you come from OldSpace, be prepared to demonstrate that.  There are plenty of OldSpace people working at SpaceX, but they demonstrated they were agile in the hiring process.  There are also plenty of aeronautical and non-aerospace (other heavy manufacturing and software) people at SpaceX.  Plenty wash out quickly too, both of their own volition and SpaceX's.

[deltaV]

Perhaps Elon considers experience designing things inefficiently (as he seems to view traditional aerospace practices) to be a drawback in a job candidate, not a benefit.

Can someone be a little more explicit about what SpaceX's corporate culture is like? What do "entrepreneurial thinking" and "agile" mean other than marketing lingo? For example can you rephrase those terms (or give antonyms) in a way that highlights their drawbacks?

[QuantumG]

My understanding of those marketing terms is:

You,

 * work as many hours as you are required
 * never ask for overtime
 * want to work more hours than you are required
 * don't mind the low pay that results
 * agree that your stock options have value
 * believe anything is possible
 * will be assertive about your preferred way of doing things
 * give all the creative solutions you come up with
 * remain positive about the future of the company at all times

That's a generic Silicon Valley perspective, your mileage may vary.

[Swatch]

/\
||   Good advice/points, all.
||

[spectre9]

I'd say the problem is he's stalking Elon Musk.

Go read his post history.

Just seems creepy to me. 

[heroineworshiper]

We should have a SpaceX rejection club.  There are enough of us to raise more money for drinks than SpaceX's entire budget.  There was also a time when I wanted to marry a mermaid.  Unfortunately, the mermaids wanted quantity instead of quality.

Honestly, the SpaceX recruitors get some 1000 resumes for every opening.  Each guy has built every type of flying machine known to man in their garage.

[rdale]

Go read his post history.

Just seems creepy to me. 

Maybe it's the norm for a space worker to be infatuated with cowboy boots... Yeah - weird.

[Antares]

Maybe it's the norm for a space worker to be infatuated with cowboy boots

Ever been to JSC? 

[Antares]

* will be assertive about your preferred way of doing things

All correct except that one which can get one canned... though I don't consider "entrepreneurial thinking" or "agile" to be marketing speak.  When I use words, it's generally safe to go with the dictionary definition.  My sarcasm will be apparent if it's otherwise.

[Jkew]

In software the term "agile" can take a lot of forms, but in all forms there are the commonalities that teams must:
  1. Keep things simple
  2. Recognize that you will fail; embrace it, and learn from it
  3. Iterate and refine.
  4. Move quickly

If applied (poorly) to aerospace (a field which I have only the barest of knowledge) I believe it would also mean that you want to avoid long development cycles before a minimally sufficient solution is ripe for testing.

All the stuff about working long hours for no pay is not necessarily true. In my experience the folks who end up working long hours are digging a hole for themselves trying to achieve perfection rather than setting short, achievable milestones. Short bursts of productivity reinforces the sense of optimism; and possibly has a carryover effect into reinforcing the optimism for the company mission as a whole.

[deltaV]

In software the term "agile" can take a lot of forms, but in all forms there are the commonalities that teams must:
  1. Keep things simple
  2. Recognize that you will fail; embrace it, and learn from it
  3. Iterate and refine.
  4. Move quickly

Thanks, that explanation helps a lot. I've been thinking for a while that #2 is something that NASA would benefit from learning from SpaceX.

[MP99]

There are some interesting reviews at http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Reviews-E40371.htm

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

cheers, Martin

[JohnFornaro]

My understanding of those marketing terms is:

You,

1 * work as many hours as you are required
2 * never ask for overtime
3 * want to work more hours than you are required
4 * don't mind the low pay that results
5 * agree that your stock options have value
6 * believe anything is possible
7 * will be assertive about your preferred way of doing things
8 * give [up?] all the creative solutions you come up with
9 * remain positive about the future of the company at all times

That's a generic Silicon Valley perspective, your mileage may vary.

Interesting perspective, and readily understandable.  However:

1.  Ageism is.  Personally, I would put in the time if...  If I were to have fulfilled a number of personal objectives.  Generally, and stereotypically speaking, younger single people without families to support and nourish have more time to spend at the company.

2.  Always a sticking point for some people.  Overtime is supposed to compensate for the vast inconvenience of working more than forty hours a week.  For poorer people, it's a good way to make a few extra bux.  For the company, it's a good way to avoid hiring more people at full wage.

3.  Personally, I've always worked a few hours more per week than the forty required.  But Saturdays and Sundays? Or til nine or ten o'clock?

4.  No point in this.  Personally, I've never had anybody tell me that I've asked for too little pay.  Always a first time, tho.

5.  If it were a publicly traded company, this would be obvious.  Otherwise, it is a faith based issue.

6.  Depends on what is meant by "anything".

7.  Hard to do, should the boss impose "my way or hi way" instructions.

8.  I actually got a written exclusion on a contract clause for ownership of certain ideas prior to being hired by a company.  A new hire should go into the relationship with eyes wide open.

9.  Easy to do until you get a pink slip. I hear that Mr. Romney has run out of them from time to time.

10.  YMMV.

Unfortunately, the mermaids wanted quantity instead of quality.

Around here, I thought ponies and unicorns were preferred.  That could be your problem.

When I use words, it's generally safe to go with the dictionary definition.  My sarcasm will be apparent if it's otherwise.

Totally agree.  Have a pony.

[rjholling]

I was offered a job by them as a test engineer at the McGregor site.  I turned it down because I found something better for me and what I want to do with my career at Boeing though.  SpaceX is NOT looking for quantity over quality.  To even get an interview they set a cutoff of 3.6 GPA and extensive internship experience.  I don't know about experienced hires as opposed to new grads but I imagine its the same.  They are trying to stay lean and mean in the face of ever growing corporate bureaucracy.  Best of luck!  You probably wouldn't have wanted to live in Waco anyway. 

[Hells]

There are some interesting reviews at http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Reviews-E40371.htm

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

cheers, Martin

haha, the last two reviewers have definitely been fired 

[Patchouli]

There are some interesting reviews at http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Reviews-E40371.htm

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

cheers, Martin

Sounds like Musk wasn't completely successful in eliminating the communications problems between management and employees that supposedly plagues old space companies.

They'd do well to look into the reviews.

[QuantumG]

Sounds like Musk wasn't completely successful in eliminating the communications problems between management and employees that supposedly plagues old space companies.

Many people today seem terribly worried about keeping their jobs. Even in the IT industry, where just about everyone with adequate qualifications has fabulous mobility - to the point of having to daily fend off the advances of recruiters, are hesitant to put their job on the line over a matter of principle. I fail to see how good engineering can shine under such a regime.

[ArbitraryConstant]

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

The crazy hours is probably accurate.

[Lurker Steve]

There are some interesting reviews at http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Reviews-E40371.htm

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

cheers, Martin

haha, the last two reviewers have definitely been fired 

My take from the reviews is that SpaceX pays at the low end of the scale. These engineers are sticking with the company because of the carrot of the big payoff from the IPO. What happens to these people once they get the big payoff ? Many companies, including mine, expect you to work 50+ hours per week. This isn't considered "overtime", just your normal work week.

Those 50+ hour work weeks occasionally stretch to 60-70 hr weeks during crunch time. "Crunch" time shouldn't last for months on end. That just leads to burn-out. Those additional hours after the first 50 are also much less productive.

When I interview someone, I am much more interested in what they have done and if they understand what they were doing, rather than just their GPA. How many entry level jobs can there be at SpaceX ?

[dcporter]

If you have way too many applicants for a position, gpa is the easy slice to make. You're going to cut some highly qualified candidates, but you're going to end up with a pool with a better ratio of qualified to unqualified. GPA may not be a good way to judge the two resumes in front of you, but it's probably a very effective way to judge the 1,000 resumes in front of you.

[QuantumG]

Also, you could try persistence. Apparently they even turned down Ken Bowersox the first time he applied. See http://moonandback.com/2012/01/12/moonandback-interview-with-ken-bowersox-part-2-a-job-at-spacex/

[Lurker Steve]

If you have way too many applicants for a position, gpa is the easy slice to make. You're going to cut some highly qualified candidates, but you're going to end up with a pool with a better ratio of qualified to unqualified. GPA may not be a good way to judge the two resumes in front of you, but it's probably a very effective way to judge the 1,000 resumes in front of you.

After you have a couple / ten years experience under your belt, what happened in college means next to nothing. What have you learned since leaving college ? If you don't have a good answer for that one, apply somewhere else.

If you only have college on your resume, then you are applying for an entry-level position. Sure, GPA matters, but I start weaning out candidates based on where they went to school.

[deltaV]

Does anyone know if SpaceX is closer to 50-60 hours per week or 70-80 hours per week?

[iamlucky13]

There are some interesting reviews at http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Reviews-E40371.htm

Standard disclaimer that the job reviews look to be from those who've left. Might get different answers from those who stayed.

cheers, Martin

If the company is run like I think it is (in many ways similar to my current employer, from what I gather, but taken to a further extreme), then whether SpaceX is a good fit for someone depends very highly on the person. I suspect the reviews are pretty fair, but from widely varying perspectives.

An environment where you're expected to stick your neck out and make decisions on systems you have the education to understand, but haven't dealt with professionally in a way that can cost the company millions of dollars if you're wrong before can be extremely stressful. Add in long hours and you need a certain type of employee to flourish.

Almost everyone else will be miserable. Potential candidates reading the negative reviews should be aware of possible bitterness, but not look past the cause of the poor review. Claims about favoritism are hard to substantiate, but long hours, mediocre pay, and limited tutelage are criticisms that seem to be consistently noted.

I was in the past very interested in working at SpaceX, but after getting some input from people currently working there, I focused most of my effort elsewhere. It sounds like a very demanding place.

When I interview someone, I am much more interested in what they have done and if they understand what they were doing, rather than just their GPA. How many entry level jobs can there be at SpaceX ?

I seriously doubt they're worrying about GPA's for experienced engineers, but you'd be surprised how many entry-level engineers a rapidly growing company can take. They could be taking the entry-level engineers, having them do a lot of the grunt work (ranging from detailing CAD models to setting up FEAs or populating spreadsheets to simply turning wrenches) for the engineers who were entry level a few years ago, and ending up with a home-grown hierarchy of experience.

In a company such as this, in fact, coming from a company that's developed bureaucratic ways, even though it's generally for good reasons, can be a serious liability.

* will be assertive about your preferred way of doing things

All correct except that one which can get one canned...

It depends on the boss. The best bosses encourage judicious independence.

[go4mars]

Just glancing through some of the 214 openings on the careers part of the SpaceX website to see if there were any unusual requirements (to try and glean an idea of what they might be planning (unsuccessfully btw)), and it looks like they need an electron beam welder who can weld inconel. 

Do they have existing parts that use iconel?  Or would this be for a some future system?

Thanks.

Also, when would the staff ramp-up for the stratolaunch F5 be likely to occur, and how many additional people will that likely involve? 

[strangequark]

Just glancing through some of the 214 openings on the careers part of the SpaceX website to see if there were any unusual requirements (to try and glean an idea of what they might be planning (unsuccessfully btw)), and it looks like they need an electron beam welder who can weld iconel. 

Do they have existing parts that use iconel?  Or would this be for a some future system?

Thanks.

Also, when would the staff ramp-up for the stratolaunch F5 be likely to occur, and how many additional people will that likely involve? 

It's "Inconel" (Iconel is a common misspelling), and it would be shocking to me if they didn't use it. It is extremely commonplace in "hot" parts.

[go4mars]

It's "Inconel" (Iconel is a common misspelling), and it would be shocking to me if they didn't use it. It is extremely commonplace in "hot" parts.

Gotcha.  Thanks.

[go4mars]

Of the current listings, only 10 are for Vandy launch site.  Does that seem about right?   

16 are for McGregor.

156 for Hawthorne.

1 for Washington DC.

Looks like about 30 open positions less than last count. 

Some "big company" positions in there too.  Like "creative designer".

[cuddihy]

Of the current listings, only 10 are for Vandy launch site.  Does that seem about right?   

16 are for McGregor.

156 for Hawthorne.

1 for Washington DC.

Looks like about 30 open positions less than last count. 

Some "big company" positions in there too.  Like "creative designer".

Vandy's only a 2.5-3 hr drive from Hawthorne.

[Robotbeat]

Of the current listings, only 10 are for Vandy launch site.  Does that seem about right?   
...

Presumably, a large portion of the staff of the Vandy site will be existing personnel that have had experience launching Falcon 9 at the Cape (and some who did Falcon 1 at Kwaj). It'd be a bad idea to have all new folk at Vandy.

[Jim]

Of the current listings, only 10 are for Vandy launch site.  Does that seem about right?   

Yes, only to watch general contractors build stuff.  To process missions, a need a magnitude more.

[cuddihy]

Of the current listings, only 10 are for Vandy launch site.  Does that seem about right?   

Yes, only to watch general contractors build stuff.  To process missions, a need a magnitude more.

So far they have 1 contracted VAFB F9 mission, hopefully by mid-2013  and 1 test FH by 2014 to be flown. They could do everything they currently need, maybe even through CASSIOPE launch, with mostly TD Hawthorne employees until they get some actual Vandenberg orders, right?

Money talks and the lack of positions at VAFB (good luck getting current Hawthorne employees to move up permanently) may indicate  SpaceX may not be serious about VAFB F9 in 2012 and FH in 2013.

Then again, maybe the positions are already filled. Hawthorneology aint exactly a precise science yet.

[savuporo]

  1. Keep things simple
  2. Recognize that you will fail; embrace it, and learn from it
  3. Iterate and refine.
  4. Move quickly

+ pragmatic solutions trump ideal and shoddy ones

[Jason1701]

SpaceX may not be serious about VAFB F9 in 2012 and FH in 2013.

I think a more reasonable prediction is F9-006-VAFB in mid-2013, FH in 2014. We know SpaceX is almost done with the hangar, and I have talked with people building the fluid handling systems.

[go4mars]

>3000 current employees and 233 open positions at the moment. 

This company seems to be getting bigger than Elon originally expected! 

I wonder where numbers might plateau.  5000?  10,000?  80,000?  I guess it all depends on the plans we know very little detail of.  (churning out electric hypersonic jets? BFR's?  Dragon 3's?  level of automation?)  ...


Are electron beam welders common at most aerospace companies the size of SpaceX? 

[Step55]

Article by Slate.com - What Is It Like to Work With Elon Musk?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2013/08/14/elon_musk_what_is_it_like_to_work_for_the_spacex_tesla_chief.html

[Retired Downrange]

Via FB

SpaceX
We are excited to launch the brand new Careers at SpaceX Facebook page!

Hit "like" for updates on new openings, tips for getting your foot in the door, and what you might expect working at SpaceX.

http://www.facebook.com/CareersAtSpaceX

[bilbo]

I'm gonna reboot this thread here, because I would actually love to work at Spacex!

I'd definitely want to do something in Hawthorne probably.
I would love to deal with Merlin and rocket engines, would love to do something with raptor.
Have not finished college yet though, gonna transfer from my community college to Purdue, hopefully then they might accept me.

I have done High power model rockets, and I would love to be in an engineering team, So working at Spacex would be a blast for me. I honestly don't care about long hours, I just really wanna work for them!

[Llian Rhydderch]

I'm gonna reboot this thread here, because I would actually love to work at Spacex!

I'd definitely want to do something in Hawthorne probably.
I would love to deal with Merlin and rocket engines, would love to do something with raptor.
Have not finished college yet though, gonna transfer from my community college to Purdue, hopefully then they might accept me.

I have done High power model rockets, and I would love to be in an engineering team, So working at Spacex would be a blast for me. I honestly don't care about long hours, I just really wanna work for them!

As a new grad hire, what SpaceX sometimes calls a "fresh out", there is quite a bit of good info I've read in the past year where SpaceX provides you folks in that category with some of the key metrics for what they are looking for.  You should definitely research that, or maybe others will add the links to this thread.

To get you started, some that I recall include:

 1. high GPA, don't recall the number, but I think 'twas above 3.6.  This appears to be used as an initial screening tool to cut the pile of 1000 applicants down to size, even though by itself, it is a somewhat poorly correlated metric with top performers in a SpaceX-type culture.
 2. better schools (I think Purdue is likely on that list, but don't know a lot about the engineering school competitive heirarchy at present).   Some SpaceXers have spoken on the matter.
 3. definitely make sure you are doing so well in your courses that you have substantial time to devote to extra-curricular engineering projects like mechanical/electrical/aerospace team-based activities (CubeSats, or car competitions, flying plane competitions, etc.)  Build a portfolio of your activities and accomplishments, as you'll find it easier to make your applicant video later if you have some folder full of this info, designs, tradeoffs, and finished projects.
 4. software engineering or EE or ME skills can be used on aerospace projects if they are happening at your school.  (but the projects need not be aerospace oriented)
 5. be the team lead, chief designer, etc. on #3 (they seem to like to look at seniors who have done the component and sub-system design work as sophomores and juniors, and show the capability and initiative to be in a more leadership role by senior year)
 6. they will appreciate some project management skills in the folks they look at; but make sure that isn't the main thing you did senior year on the extracurricular project; they'll definitely be looking for your technical chops too.
 7. other out-of-school, self-motivated initiative shown in tech projects in high school (robotics clubs/competition, etc.) are a plus.  But do be sure to continue to do that stuff during your college career, as it seems to be critical to their eval of freshouts.
 8. be a great team player, not just an individual contributor sort of engineer, and be able to demonstrate that in your resume and narrative
 9. demonstrated energy and drive to accomplish things (way beyond merely graduating from a challenging engineering program with good grades)
 10. good communicator, in both writing and in interpersonal interaction.  This is key to making their whole "silicon valley" type company culture work
 11. live and breathe working in a feedback-based culture; e.g., your idea is evaluated, doesn't hold up; accept it, modify, and come back with a couple more good ideas for how to approach a design problem.  But also, be the kind of  team player who provides feedback to others, both when things are going well ("good job on ...") and when not ("I'm not so sure that's going to work.  Do I understand your idea/approach is _____?  Well, I think it might need more of x and less of y.") Etc. etc.  Feedback is KEY to this culture and its success in rapid-turn innovation.
 12. expect a multi-level interview process:  resume/cover letter and video submission, followed by phone interviews, possibly a "homework" assignment to ask you to send something in for review (I have a yound freshout acquaintance who got a job at SpaceX recently.), etc., all before on-site interview process starts.
 13. (there are no doubt more, but those are the ones I believe I've heard Elon/Gwynne and/or their former head of HR (who just did a rather in-depth media interview/piece) talk about in the past year or so) 

I hope other NSFers will add 13, 14, ... to this list for fresh-out engineers.

Best to you, Bilbo!

Cheers,
 Llian

[RanulfC]

>snip<
Cheers,
 Llian

So... You're saying my chances of Elon JUST reading these message forums and recognizing my genius and offering me a job over the phone are somewhere south of "Not Good" then?

Hmmm, I may have to re-think my strategy here....

Randy

[Coastal Ron]

I'm gonna reboot this thread here, because I would actually love to work at Spacex!

I'd definitely want to do something in Hawthorne probably.
I would love to deal with Merlin and rocket engines, would love to do something with raptor.
Have not finished college yet though, gonna transfer from my community college to Purdue, hopefully then they might accept me.

I have done High power model rockets, and I would love to be in an engineering team, So working at Spacex would be a blast for me. I honestly don't care about long hours, I just really wanna work for them!

As a new grad hire, what SpaceX sometimes calls a "fresh out", there is quite a bit of good info I've read in the past year where SpaceX provides you folks in that category with some of the key metrics for what they are looking for.  You should definitely research that, or maybe others will add the links to this thread.

To get you started, some that I recall include...

I hope other NSFers will add 13, 14, ... to this list for fresh-out engineers.

Excellent list Llian.

I'm not really adding, but summarizing what Llian wrote - demonstrate PASSION for whatever it is you do.

[savuporo]

3. definitely make sure you are doing so well in your courses that you have substantial time to devote to extra-curricular engineering projects like mechanical/electrical/aerospace team-based activities (CubeSats, or car competitions, flying plane competitions, etc.)  Build a portfolio of your activities and accomplishments, as you'll find it easier to make your applicant video later if you have some folder full of this info, designs, tradeoffs, and finished projects.
 ..
 5. be the team lead, chief designer, etc. on #3 (they seem to like to look at seniors who have done the component and sub-system design work as sophomores and juniors, and show the capability and initiative to be in a more leadership role by senior year)
 ..
 7. other out-of-school, self-motivated initiative shown in tech projects in high school (robotics clubs/competition, etc.) are a plus.  But do be sure to continue to do that stuff during your college career, as it seems to be critical to their eval of freshouts.

These are the key. Hands on demonstrated skills are more important than anything else.  Show that you have built stuff that works, know what it takes and what the real world difficulties are, and you are halfway there.