Liberty Re-Dux ?

[edkyle99]

Oh come on.    Another qualifier to your claim? Unless you are Mr Musk, it can't be done? What does he have - some bizarre superpower that makes it impossible for anyone else to do something similar?

Just admit you made a mistake and move on. I expect better from you.

I thought my original post was clear enough.  Until a 1 million+ pound thrust kerosene/LOX engine rolls out of a U.S. factory, my post remains an accurate statement.  Only SRB exists now and for the better part of the next decade at least.  It will continue to exist for at least as long as initial SLS is funded, and probably for as long as SLS flies, if it flies.

Mr. Musk's Merlin is fine for small to low-medium class rockets, but as currently configured it is out of its element on a heavy launcher, IMO. 

 - Ed Kyle

[edkyle99]

Sure you could make an EELV class LV without the SRB one solution would be simply mount SSME's or RS 68s on the STS ET.

Yes, but in my original post I was talking about a non-LH2 booster solution, using existing U.S. propulsion.   

 - Ed Kyle

[spectre9]

So what is the deal with solids vs RP/LOX?

Seems like RP/LOX rockets have made a big comeback recently.

Atlas V, Falcon 9 and soon Antares 

ATK just seem desperate to hang on to this market share.

Can somebody answer once and for all. Is there a future for these big ATK solids after the boosters for the first flights of SLS are completed?

Something like an expendable RS-84 will be required if NASA wants LRBs on the SLS.

[Patchouli]

Sure you could make an EELV class LV without the SRB one solution would be simply mount SSME's or RS 68s on the STS ET.

Yes, but in my original post I was talking about a non-LH2 booster solution, using existing U.S. propulsion.   

 - Ed Kyle

I covered that there are a few options the TR-107,the RS-84 a little far flung but not really that crazy a modern F-1A.
Then there's the Aerojet AJ26-500.

Existing there is the RS-27A which I believe can be used clustered and five would get you 1M lbs of thrust.
Supposedly the tooling for the RS-56-OBA  still exists four of these should produce the needed thrust.

There are supposedly around 20 F-1 engines left over from Apollo in storage somewhere that could be refurbished.
This should last long enough for a production line to be restarted.

[edkyle99]

Existing there is the RS-27A which I believe can be used clustered and five would get you 1M lbs of thrust.
Supposedly the tooling for the RS-56-OBA  still exists four of these should produce the needed thrust.

The last RS-27A was delivered nearly six years ago.  After its qualification test, Rocketdyne tore down the test stand and and sold off the entire test site at Santa Susanna.  The Atlas booster engines went out of production several years earlier, and their test sites have also been scrapped.  A few months ago, PWR was said to be considering disposing of Canoga Park, the entire Rocketdyne factory.  I haven't heard much about that lately.  There is an enormous "world's largest" autoclave there that was built specifically for F-1 production.  Once it is gone, it's gone.

Five or so RS-27A engines supposedly remain, but they are assigned to potential Delta II builds, if ULA ever wins business for them.  Even if many remained, they would have to be redesigned for clustering.

There are supposedly around 20 F-1 engines left over from Apollo in storage somewhere that could be refurbished.
This should last long enough for a production line to be restarted.

MSFC personnel were looking for F-1 engines to examine during the SLS RAC competition.  I'm not sure any really exist in good enough condition to consider flying.  Most are in museums, partially stripped.   Regardless, getting anything F-1-like running would require a serious development effort.  Just look at J-2X for an example.

The U.S. needs, and has long needed, such an engine.  Until it has one in hand SRB is the only alternative.

 - Ed Kyle

[Prober]

Existing there is the RS-27A which I believe can be used clustered and five would get you 1M lbs of thrust.
Supposedly the tooling for the RS-56-OBA  still exists four of these should produce the needed thrust.

The last RS-27A was delivered nearly six years ago.  After its qualification test, Rocketdyne tore down the test stand and and sold off the entire test site at Santa Susanna.  The Atlas booster engines went out of production several years earlier, and their test sites have also been scrapped.  A few months ago, PWR was said to be considering disposing of Canoga Park, the entire Rocketdyne factory.  I haven't heard much about that lately.  There is an enormous "world's largest" autoclave there that was built specifically for F-1 production.  Once it is gone, it's gone.

Five or so RS-27A engines supposedly remain, but they are assigned to potential Delta II builds, if ULA ever wins business for them.  Even if many remained, they would have to be redesigned for clustering.

There are supposedly around 20 F-1 engines left over from Apollo in storage somewhere that could be refurbished.
This should last long enough for a production line to be restarted.

MSFC personnel were looking for F-1 engines to examine during the SLS RAC competition.  I'm not sure any really exist in good enough condition to consider flying.  Most are in museums, partially stripped.   Regardless, getting anything F-1-like running would require a serious development effort.  Just look at J-2X for an example.

The U.S. needs, and has long needed, such an engine.  Until it has one in hand SRB is the only alternative.

 - Ed Kyle

I bumped up the sale thread with a link just found.....some decent history pics on it.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26718.15

[Prober]

Transfer from thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27051.165

That's the five-meter diameter DCSS.  It is the most-capable upper stage in the world right now!  It can hold up to 27.2 tonnes of LH2/LOX - nearly twice as much as the Ariane 5 ECA stage and nearly 1.3 times as much as Centaur - and much more than H-2A/B or CZ-3A or GSLV, etc.   It is powered by the 11.2 tonne thrust RL10B-2, currently the world's most efficient upper stage engine being used in flight at roughly 460 seconds specific impulse.

On this flight, the DCSS performed two burns, one 976 seconds long and a second that was 188 seconds long, give or take, for a total of roughly 19.4 minutes (although not all of that may have been full thrust RL10 propulsion).

 - Ed Kyle
=============================

Perk......OH! 

Ed you got me thinking again

[Prober]

Today I was reading the info on the Vega (great video). 
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=1071.msg856310#new

Made me think this exercise was on the right track and would work if the flight rates were there.