Fobos-Grunt EOM Re-Entry Latest

[kevin-rf]

Just curios, which asteroid was the US "targeting" at that point in time?

[wolfpack]

This is ALL OVER the Russian mass media...

05:19 17/01/2012 // http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/317667.html

US radar could unintentionally trigger Phobos failure - daily

Ok, ok. Time to come clean. It was these guys! 

And yes, Chris, our media stinks too. You Brits should have to endure a US presidential election cycle! At least you folks get it all over in short order.

[JimO]

@esaoperations tweets:
Formal update in ESA web on #phobosgrunt reentry will come only Tuesday 17.01. Team waiting for one final set of estimates. Regret delay.

Tuesday has come and in Europe the work day is nearly over. Where's the beef?

[Chris Bergin]

@esaoperations tweets:
Formal update in ESA web on #phobosgrunt reentry will come only Tuesday 17.01. Team waiting for one final set of estimates. Regret delay.

Tuesday has come and in Europe the work day is nearly over. Where's the beef?

It's only just coming up to 3pm GMT Jim

I assume they will be working off CET, which means it's another hour to go yet until beef is served.

[jcm]

@esaoperations tweets:
Formal update in ESA web on #phobosgrunt reentry will come only Tuesday 17.01. Team waiting for one final set of estimates. Regret delay.

Tuesday has come and in Europe the work day is nearly over. Where's the beef?

It's only just coming up to 3pm GMT Jim

I assume they will be working off CET, which means it's another hour to go yet until beef is served.

This is Darmstadt we're talking about:  "Where's the sausage?" would be the correct protocol.

[JimO]

This is Darmstadt we're talking about:  "Where's the sausage?" would be the correct protocol.

Then they can use Wittgenstein's precept, "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, daruber muss man schweigen."

A former commander of Baikonur used to quote Bulgakov, but I've never been able to verify this phrase he used: "Say only what you know, and do not say what you do not know."

If more people in recent days had followed this good advice, things would not be so confusing -- and frustrating -- as they have turned out.

That's a saying I use a lot about journalists: "A good journalist only writes about half of what he knows, and a bad journalist, the opposite." It might even be original.

[jcm]

This is Darmstadt we're talking about:  "Where's the sausage?" would be the correct protocol.

Then they can use Wittgenstein's precept, "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, daruber muss man schweigen."

A former commander of Baikonur used to quote Bulgakov, but I've never been able to verify this phrase he used: "Say only what you know, and do not say what you do not know."

If more people in recent days had followed this good advice, things would not be so confusing -- and frustrating -- as they have turned out.

That's a saying I use a lot about journalists: "A good journalist only writes about half of what he knows, and a bad journalist, the opposite." It might even be original.

Agreed..  and perhaps the ESA debris experts are following this rule with respect to their evaluation, if not to the announcements of when it will be ready.  I do not object to waiting a while longer for ESA's considered opinion. The Darmstadt team is very good. If we're seeing the ESA press office pressuring them to release info ASAP, and the scientists resisting and saying "actually, we want to think about this another day or two", well then, good for the scientists. There's really no hurry now that Fobos-Grunt is down, except to feed the media cycle.

[Prober]

This is ALL OVER the Russian mass media...

05:19 17/01/2012 // http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/317667.html

US radar could unintentionally trigger Phobos failure - daily

more of the "blame game" sigh.

[JimO]

more of the "blame game" sigh.

The concern, as I just told a WaPo newsman, is that genuine safety [better, 'undangerousness'] rests on a sober diagnosis of problems that is the ONLY foundation of a reliable prescription to get well. Phantom 'causes' create delusional fixes, and increase flight risk.

[kevin-rf]

Oh gawd, now foxnews has picked up on the radar story, claiming they are going to now do a test on a model... a model exists?

What was the line about repeat a lie often enough....

[JimO]

Here's a MUST READ from the go-to man on current Russian space operations:

From the FPSPACE list:

What a difference a day makes! It seems we finally have a plausible explanation for Phobos-Grunt’s failure in orbit:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_reentry.html#1_17

Anatoly Zak

[Chris Bergin]

Sausages still not cooked:

"@esaoperations: #spacedebris team still waiting for final data inputs to complete our #phobosgrunt report. News as soon as we have it..."

[Ben the Space Brit]

What a difference a day makes! It seems we finally have a plausible explanation for Phobos-Grunt’s failure in orbit:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_reentry.html#1_17

Fascinating bit of information.  It looks like the real, underlying fault lies in either pre-flight testing or in someone signing off on a bit of flight control electronics that wasn't flight ready.

Maybe there's a lesson there for those who chafe at SpaceX delays!

[Blackstar]

Here is the Washington Post story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/did-us-radar-fry-russian-mars-probe/2012/01/17/gIQAFQxH5P_story.html?hpid=z3

"Tuesday, the authoritative Kommersant newspaper, quoting an unnamed individual, said a commission investigating the failure was considering whether the spacecraft was damaged by flying through powerful radar signals from a U.S. installation in the Marshall Islands, which was tracking an asteroid."

Does Kommersant say that?

I did a major study on near Earth objects (i.e. asteroids) and we never heard about using radar in the Marshall Islands for that purpose. Sounds like a made up factoid to me.

[Chris Bergin]

RIA Novosti:

Russian Scientists Mock U.S. Radar Theory on Mars Probe
http://en.ria.ru/world/20120117/170802615.html

[JimO]

Interfax echoes Zak's report, from another source?
http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=226439

[Lee Jay]

Here's a MUST READ from the go-to man on current Russian space operations:

From the FPSPACE list:

What a difference a day makes! It seems we finally have a plausible explanation for Phobos-Grunt’s failure in orbit:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_reentry.html#1_17

Anatoly Zak

Computer overload causes problems?  Wow...first time ever in the history of space.

[JimO]

Does Kommersant say that? I did a major study on near Earth objects (i.e. asteroids) and we never heard about using radar in the Marshall Islands for that purpose. Sounds like a made up factoid to me.

The quotation is accurate, but you put your finger right on the journalistic atrocity -- speculation without actually talking with anybody who has ever done asteroid radar obs.

Who can we talk directly to for THIS particular project who can state that there was no Kwaj participation?

Do Kwaj radars even have near-zenith pointing capabilities?

[kevin-rf]

Computer overload causes problems?  Wow...first time ever in the history of space.

I think you forgot the sarcasm tag Remember a similar computer problem cropped up during the Apollo 11 moon landing. 

[olasek]

Computer overload causes problems? 

I read it mostly as computer hardware/software failure. Computer overload in itself doesnt have to be fatal as long software can handle it (Apollo 11 lander?) but the crashes are certailny not good and they could be both hardware and software related.