Author Topic: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion  (Read 595130 times)

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1240 on: 05/24/2014 02:54 AM »
The field probably has to be close to the drop point, since it will have a hydro-lox upper stage. I don't think any air-drop rocket has ever had to deal with those kinds of cryogenic boil-off and top-off issues yet, right?

There is room for Stratolaunch to mount an overwing cryo storage pod to top off the upper stage. The tricky part of the whole operation is how quickly can the carrier aircraft (AKA Roc) climb to operational altitude carrying a large LV core with 2 solid motors.

Offline Jim

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1241 on: 05/24/2014 12:09 PM »
The field probably has to be close to the drop point, since it will have a hydro-lox upper stage. I don't think any air-drop rocket has ever had to deal with those kinds of cryogenic boil-off and top-off issues yet, right?

There is room for Stratolaunch to mount an overwing cryo storage pod to top off the upper stage. The tricky part of the whole operation is how quickly can the carrier aircraft (AKA Roc) climb to operational altitude carrying a large LV core with 2 solid motors.

Why bother, there is room in the fuselages.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1242 on: 05/24/2014 01:05 PM »

http://questthermal.com/products/load-responsive-mli
24x better than aerogel.

Impressive.

I guess the question would be does it have the ruggedness to cut it as the outer surface of an LV tank?

It looks like it could be up to the job, but it's not quite clear.
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline HMXHMX

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1243 on: 05/24/2014 04:05 PM »

http://questthermal.com/products/load-responsive-mli
24x better than aerogel.

Impressive.

I guess the question would be does it have the ruggedness to cut it as the outer surface of an LV tank?

It looks like it could be up to the job, but it's not quite clear.

See: http://questthermal.com/products/launch-vehicle-mli

Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1244 on: 05/24/2014 06:21 PM »
If it was anyone but Burt Rutan I'd think "Not a chance.". But I'll bet Rutan has done "black projects" that won't see the light for decades, and if anyone can do it....

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1245 on: 05/24/2014 07:07 PM »
See: http://questthermal.com/products/launch-vehicle-mli
Even more impressive.

They face off against SOFI very well. This looks promising for Delta IV and any ULA upper stage provided the overall weight trade of this stuff versus  current MLI + mass of whatever launch protection is used is favorable.

Good enough to do "wet wings" for an HTOL with cryogenic propellant? :)

Sadly I fear this is OT for Stratolauch 1.0. It is still going to be solids isn't it?
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Online docmordrid

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1246 on: 05/24/2014 10:21 PM »
See: http://questthermal.com/products/launch-vehicle-mli
Even more impressive.

They face off against SOFI very well. This looks promising for Delta IV and any ULA upper stage provided the overall weight trade of this stuff versus  current MLI + mass of whatever launch protection is used is favorable.

Good enough to do "wet wings" for an HTOL with cryogenic propellant? :)

Sadly I fear this is OT for Stratolauch 1.0. It is still going to be solids isn't it?

Solid S1 and S2, but an LH2 S3 and I thought I read an optional LH2 S4. Both RL-10 derivatives.
« Last Edit: 05/24/2014 10:34 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline jongoff

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1247 on: 05/24/2014 11:32 PM »

http://questthermal.com/products/load-responsive-mli
24x better than aerogel.

Impressive.

I guess the question would be does it have the ruggedness to cut it as the outer surface of an LV tank?

It looks like it could be up to the job, but it's not quite clear.

They did "screwdriver drop" tests where they dropped the screwdriver, pointy-end down (inside a tube to keep it pointy-end down) on the surface. It could handle up to 2ft drops without damage. And the surface is readily patchable. They're also working on a more ruggedized version that can work as an aero surface.


Offline HMXHMX

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1248 on: 05/24/2014 11:35 PM »
If it was anyone but Burt Rutan I'd think "Not a chance.". But I'll bet Rutan has done "black projects" that won't see the light for decades, and if anyone can do it....

Burt's not involved with the development.  AFAIK, he still is on the SL board, but I do know he is neither active in Scaled or SL engineering and development activities.  He is retired.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1249 on: 05/25/2014 11:17 AM »
The field probably has to be close to the drop point, since it will have a hydro-lox upper stage. I don't think any air-drop rocket has ever had to deal with those kinds of cryogenic boil-off and top-off issues yet, right?

There is room for Stratolaunch to mount an overwing cryo storage pod to top off the upper stage. The tricky part of the whole operation is how quickly can the carrier aircraft (AKA Roc) climb to operational altitude carrying a large LV core with 2 solid motors.

Why bother, there is room in the fuselages.

Not too sure there is much room in those slim fuselages of the Roc for cryo storage and plumbing. More likely carrying jet fuel and some interesting arrangement for the 4 sets of big landing gears.

Overwing pod could gravity feed the the propellants to the Thunderbolt upper stage with external venting for broil-off. Avoid cryo stress on the Roc airframe. Also you would need set of cryo tanks, pumps & plumbing system in each fuselage to balance the Roc. Then there is the routing of the long cryo feed conduits through the wing structure.

Presuming additional cryo propellants aboard the Roc for broil-off replacement during the transit time to the launch location and altitude will be a large fraction of the upper stage propellant tankage total. Think the Roc will drop the Thunderbolt after several hours from take off. Large loaded air transports with big external payload generally don't accelerated or climb quickly.

Plus the pod could be jettison in event of emergencies.

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1250 on: 05/27/2014 07:03 PM »
BTW, so much for the benefit of air launch... A GIANT aircraft, two solid stages, and a third stage with two RL-10.

And all that to lift LESS than what a Atlas V without SRBs can lift (using one RL-10). How is this supposed to be cheaper?

IMO the fact it 'starts' with "two-solid" stages is the main performance issue right off the bat...

Secondly I don't think "cheaper" was ever part of the pitch.

Interesting point I'll bring up though, anyone else notice it could handle Dewar's Air-Launched NTR? Hmmm... ;)
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Offline RanulfC

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1251 on: 05/27/2014 07:23 PM »
Not too sure there is much room in those slim fuselages of the Roc for cryo storage and plumbing. More likely carrying jet fuel and some interesting arrangement for the 4 sets of big landing gears.

Overwing pod could gravity feed the the propellants to the Thunderbolt upper stage with external venting for broil-off. Avoid cryo stress on the Roc airframe. Also you would need set of cryo tanks, pumps & plumbing system in each fuselage to balance the Roc. Then there is the routing of the long cryo feed conduits through the wing structure.

Presuming additional cryo propellants aboard the Roc for broil-off replacement during the transit time to the launch location and altitude will be a large fraction of the upper stage propellant tankage total. Think the Roc will drop the Thunderbolt after several hours from take off. Large loaded air transports with big external payload generally don't accelerated or climb quickly.

Plus the pod could be jettison in event of emergencies.


Gahhh? Come again? Totally empty the "over-wing" tank MIGHT and I seriously stress that "might" clear the tail if "dumped"... Full or partially? It's going to drop faster than the aircraft could. At a minimum you'd have to dump the T-Bolt first and then the "tank" while trying to pull the aircraft "up" so as to have the tank drop through the space between the wings and tails. Besides internal cryo tanks can be better insulated and it makes more sense for the "feed" line which runs from the hard-point to the third stage in the illustration...

Speaking of which... Anyone else make not that the "fairing" line on the vehicle runs from the nose to what looks like the clear back to what looks like the top of the SECOND stage and not just the third?

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1252 on: 05/27/2014 07:43 PM »
Re: the B-52 runway idea.  Currently B-52s (less than 80 remain, and 1/3rd of those are in reserve duty) are only stationed at two Air Force Bases, one in North Dakota and one in Louisiana.  You can find a lot of abandoned or re-purposed B-52 bases around the world from SAC days on Google Earth, but many have become passenger airports, overrun by population.  Others have turned into museums or have been covered in weeds. 

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I thought that we were still using Diego Garcia out in the Indian ocean. (Not that he'd likely use it to launch a space craft) 
Not since 2006 for bombers.

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« Last Edit: 05/27/2014 07:49 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline go4mars

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1253 on: 07/21/2014 02:51 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/articles/erik-schechter-and-dave-majumdar-lasers-are-no-longer-a-star-wars-fantasy-1405892997

This seems like a possible dual use payload...  batteries and lasers for air to ground or air to air?
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1254 on: 07/21/2014 03:54 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/articles/erik-schechter-and-dave-majumdar-lasers-are-no-longer-a-star-wars-fantasy-1405892997

This seems like a possible dual use payload...  batteries and lasers for air to ground or air to air?

Since the article is paywalled, can you summarize what it has to do with Stratolaunch?

Offline plank

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1255 on: 07/21/2014 11:32 AM »
http://online.wsj.com/articles/erik-schechter-and-dave-majumdar-lasers-are-no-longer-a-star-wars-fantasy-1405892997

This seems like a possible dual use payload...  batteries and lasers for air to ground or air to air?

Since the article is paywalled, can you summarize what it has to do with Stratolaunch?

Search Google.  And I think he may be referring to Stratolaunch being used as an airborne laser platform for the military, which the article does not mention.

Offline Star One

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1256 on: 07/21/2014 07:11 PM »

http://online.wsj.com/articles/erik-schechter-and-dave-majumdar-lasers-are-no-longer-a-star-wars-fantasy-1405892997

This seems like a possible dual use payload...  batteries and lasers for air to ground or air to air?

Since the article is paywalled, can you summarize what it has to do with Stratolaunch?

Search Google.  And I think he may be referring to Stratolaunch being used as an airborne laser platform for the military, which the article does not mention.

The last news article I can see for them is dated 30th June is nothing to do with that?

Offline go4mars

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1257 on: 07/25/2014 06:27 AM »
can you summarize what it has to do with Stratolaunch?
I think he may be referring to Stratolaunch being used as an airborne laser platform for the military, which the article does not mention.
Yes.  That's what I was trying to suggest.
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1258 on: 09/12/2014 05:42 AM »
Hmmmm ... when topics about private companies have more  debates than there are posts with news, that is usually a sign of trouble.

I am beginning to wonder if Mojave has some sort of curse for private companies.
« Last Edit: 09/12/2014 05:43 AM by Danderman »

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Stratolaunch Announcement, Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1259 on: 10/01/2014 10:15 PM »
Here's my article, using some of the good L2 info we had, with the media releases and a bit more L2 info.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/10/dream-chaser-eyes-rides-with-under-review-stratolaunch-system/

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