Author Topic: Stratolaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions  (Read 1052294 times)


Offline starchasercowboy

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“We are working to get certified by the FAA, so beginning in September we’ll fly at least once a month,” he said. Those tests would last for about eight months in order to get the plane certified by the FAA.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Stratolaunch resurrects its hypersonic rocket vehicle under a new name: Talon-A
BY ALAN BOYLE on March 30, 2020 at 6:10 am

Now that it’s under new management, Stratolaunch is retooling a concept for a rocket-powered hypersonic vehicle that it first unveiled 18 months ago.

[…]

The new ownership group, led by billionaire investor Steve Feinberg, recently confirmed that it was continuing Stratolaunch’s work on hypersonic vehicles — and today it unveiled a rebranded version of the Hyper-A, now known as the Talon-A.

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/stratolaunch-resurrects-hypersonic-rocket-vehicle-new-name-talon/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://www.stratolaunch.com/vehicles/talon-a

Quote
Our innovative Mach 6-class vehicle offers a reliable testing environment, enabling the development of hypersonic systems.

Built for Speed

The Talon-A features a length of 28 feet (8.5 m), a wingspan of 11.3 feet (3.4 m), and a launch weight of approximately 6,000 pounds (2,722 Kg). It will conduct long duration flight at high Mach, and glide back for an autonomous, horizontal landing on a conventional runway. It will also be capable of autonomous take-off, under its own power, via a conventional runway.

Reliable by Design

Iterative flight test exposure reducing customer development schedule, cost and technology risk:

Recover Valuable Payloads and Experiments
Rapid Mission Turnaround for Fast Multi-Flight Opportunity
Cost-Effective Access to the Hypersonic Flight Environment

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1244615250080673792

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Stratolaunch says that as many as 3 of the Talon-A vehicles can be launched in a single flight, all carried under the central wing.
« Last Edit: 03/30/2020 02:19 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Atlantis83

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That's great News. I wanna see this big bird Roc flying very much times. But I hope they get enough money to develop this new hypersonic vehicle and have success.

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It will also be capable of autonomous take-off, under its own power, via a conventional runway.

Is it possible with the same rocket engine?  :-\ I thought they have to fly with Roc to a high attitude and thin air that a hypersonic vehicle can fly. The only approach to switch engines I knew is Reaction Engines in the UK.
« Last Edit: 03/30/2020 03:42 pm by Atlantis83 »

Offline Craftyatom

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It will also be capable of autonomous take-off, under its own power, via a conventional runway.

Is it possible with the same rocket engine?  :-\ I thought they have to fly with Roc to a high attitude and thin air that a hypersonic vehicle can fly. The only approach to switch engines I knew is Reaction Engines in the UK.

I believe you're mixing up two different concepts.  Reaction Engines is designing a "dual-mode" engine, which can transition from air-breathing to onboard propellant.  This is designed to let it reach orbit with less propellant than would normally be needed by "topping itself up", as it were, during flight in the atmosphere.

Hypersonic vehicles, however, generally need a traditional rocket motor anyways, in order to reach high mach in a reasonable about of time and propellant.  This is no different: the Roc can't really go supersonic, let alone hypersonic, so Talon-A will need a high-thrust engine to get itself into the hypersonic regime.  If it has a high-thrust engine, wings, and control surfaces, then there's no reason it can't take off on its own, from a traditional runway, like other rocketplanes of the past - of course, this will use up a lot of fuel, meaning that it would get to spend far less time at hypersonic speeds, if at all (hence the need for a carrier aircraft).

Interestingly, while many recent hypersonic vehicles have had separate boost and sustainer engines - generally a rocket for the former and a scramjet for the latter - I can't see any hint of a scramjet on this design.  Stratolaunch may be running a rocket-only hypersonic vehicle, like the old X-15, which would be interesting (and put some extra limitations on "long duration flight at high Mach").  SpaceNews only says that it will be "powered by a liquid-propellant rocket engine", which could be taken both ways.  We'll have to wait and see.
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline libra

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Stratolaunch says that as many as 3 of the Talon-A vehicles can be launched in a single flight, all carried under the central wing.

 a launch weight of approximately 6,000 pounds (2,722 Kg)

Dude, with 250 mt of payload you could carry, not 3, but 91 of them.  :P

Same issue as with the ridiculous Pegasus scheme as before: that thing is completely overkill for the job. Hire a White Knight instead.

Offline Lars-J

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Stratolaunch says that as many as 3 of the Talon-A vehicles can be launched in a single flight, all carried under the central wing.

 a launch weight of approximately 6,000 pounds (2,722 Kg)

Dude, with 250 mt of payload you could carry, not 3, but 91 of them.  :P

Same issue as with the ridiculous Pegasus scheme as before: that thing is completely overkill for the job. Hire a White Knight instead.

Yes. Why launch 3 at the same time, when you can build a larger one that actually has a chance of doing something if your carrier aircraft can lift it?

The whole "3 at the same time" seems targeted at the DoD as some sort of bizarro hypersonic weapons launch platform... Not anything useful. But nothing will come of it, I predict.

Offline Hobbes-22

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In addition to Talon-A, they also list a spaceplane on their Vehicles page.

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Black Ice is a fully reusable space plane that enables advanced on-orbit capabilities and cargo return. Initial designs optimized for cargo launch, with a follow-on variant capable of transporting crew.

Building on their earlier work, I assume?

Offline libra

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... meanwhile the perfectly good and readily available RD-0124 boast a terrific specific impulse of 362 seconds in vaccuum (or near vaccuum).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-0124

If
a) we used plain old Titan II stage 1 record mass fraction of 0.96 (1958 technology level...)
b) build out of this a 250 mt stage (maxing out Stratolaunch-Roc payload)
and
c) air dropped that big thing from Birdzilla - (gaining 1100 m/s of delta-v on the way to orbit... from Mach 0.95 and 30 degree AoA, a little optimistic, 900 m/s is more realistic probably)

0.96 out of 250 mt is 10 mt of empty weight. Alternatively:   1-(10/250) = 0.96

9.81*362*ln(250/10)+1100 = 12530m/s

Busting Earth orbit 9300 m/s delta-v for kerolox... and leaving a huge margin for some interesting payload... 15 mt, for frack sake.

And Philip Bono, God bless his soul, back in the day gave a weight estimate of 3700 kg (8000 pounds) to recover a S-IVB from orbite, using a ballute, a heatshield, large chutes, and landing legs. Let's round this to 4000 kg.

And zap, here is a full reusable TSTO: a ballistic recoverable rocket stage + Birdzilla, with some interesting payload to Earth orbit... let's say 10 mt. Not bad.

Just sayin'.

(back of the envelope numbers of course. The devil is always in the details).

Offline Kryten

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 I can't imagine the 'build something for the DoD that'll be super-expensive to maintain and which they didn't ask for' strategy will work any better than their orbital launch one. USAF are already funding much smaller and cheaper systems for this role, like X-60A and now a SBIR for using Exos' SARGE.

Offline Star One

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Offline starchasercowboy

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« Last Edit: 03/31/2020 03:03 pm by starchasercowboy »

Offline Comga

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I can't imagine the 'build something for the DoD that'll be super-expensive to maintain and which they didn't ask for' strategy will work any better than their orbital launch one. USAF are already funding much smaller and cheaper systems for this role, like X-60A and now a SBIR for using Exos' SARGE.

That's logical, but a counter-argument may be found on sites focusing on politics. :-X
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline brickmack

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In addition to Talon-A, they also list a spaceplane on their Vehicles page.

Quote
Black Ice is a fully reusable space plane that enables advanced on-orbit capabilities and cargo return. Initial designs optimized for cargo launch, with a follow-on variant capable of transporting crew.

Building on their earlier work, I assume?

Black Ice was announced before their short dead period. Unless plans have changed, it'll be using the PGA they had pretty far into development. It was supposed to replace the expendable vehicles they planned to develop first, looks like those are gone now

Offline edzieba

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In addition to Talon-A, they also list a spaceplane on their Vehicles page.

Quote
Black Ice is a fully reusable space plane that enables advanced on-orbit capabilities and cargo return. Initial designs optimized for cargo launch, with a follow-on variant capable of transporting crew.

Building on their earlier work, I assume?

Black Ice was announced before their short dead period. Unless plans have changed, it'll be using the PGA they had pretty far into development. It was supposed to replace the expendable vehicles they planned to develop first, looks like those are gone now
From the Aviation Week article:
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In terms of powering the Talon and follow-on vehicles, Stratolaunch says it “is working with engine providers to procure the rocket engine. We will disclose our engine provider when we have more news to share.” Longer term, the company also appears to be holding the door open to potentially resurrecting the PGA liquid rocket engine it was developing to power the new vehicle family. In January 2019 Stratolaunch announced it was abandoning development of a proposed space launch vehicle that would also have been powered by the PGA engine. At the time, preliminary development of the engine was progressing at NASA’s Stennis Space Center. Commenting on the possibility of restarting the PGA program, the company says only that “long-term development plans will be disclosed at a later date.”
Appears to still be Mostly Dead. A shame, PGA was shaping up to be a very interesting engine.

Offline Star One

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Scott Manley on Stratolaunch’s hypersonic plans:

« Last Edit: 04/12/2020 09:10 pm by Star One »

Offline Solarsail

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According to this, Talon-A will operate with "an air breathing rocket engine".  This sounds new, I think?

https://www.janes.com/article/95745/talon-a-hypersonic-testbed-to-achieve-ioc-by-2022

Offline Craftyatom

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According to this, Talon-A will operate with "an air breathing rocket engine".  This sounds new, I think?

https://www.janes.com/article/95745/talon-a-hypersonic-testbed-to-achieve-ioc-by-2022
Indeed, the article says that's a direct quote from someone on the project (as well as saying that a schematic on the website implies it, which is arguable - I thought that inlet was an optional test configuration, and there appear to be two separate propellant tanks, so they haven't managed "elimination of oxidiser cylinders").  They also suggest it might be some sort of dual-mode rocket/scramjet

Color me surprised, and a little concerned.  There are a handful of medium-size liquid rocket engines on the market that could suit this vehicle, and choosing to purchase one of them instead of designing one from the ground up sounded like a great idea.  There are not any air-breathing liquid rocket engines in operation right now, let alone any for sale and designed for this weight class, AFAIK.  Pumping money into Reaction Engines Ltd. and waiting for them to develop one doesn't sound like a great business plan.  What other possible suppliers am I missing?  Boeing, maybe?
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline TrevorMonty

Also from same article

"Pettigrue declined to disclose detail on propulsion specifics, noting only that the platform will be powered by "an air breathing rocket engine", and that Stratolaunch is currently working with engine providers to source an appropriate system. All the other platform systems will be designed and developed in-house, he added."

The rule is design vehicle around engine, which means they should have engine sorted.

 

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