Author Topic: Stratolaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions  (Read 1052231 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Just released new aerial and ground shots of the latest test series performed this weekend. More to come! stratolaunch.com/gallery.html

https://twitter.com/stratolaunch/status/968215041278291968

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Offline vaporcobra

Love when companies nonsensically compress images to hell and back and then uploads a 4K video of the exact things filmed in that video...  ::) ::) ::)

« Last Edit: 02/26/2018 11:21 pm by vaporcobra »


Offline Archibald

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So how about the rocket ? still a "barrel" of Pegasus ? I do hope for them they find something bigger to launch...
How much does a Cyclone 4 weight ?
« Last Edit: 03/01/2018 06:42 pm by Archibald »
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/world-s-biggest-plane-stratolaunch-marks-another-key-milestone-ncna851556
Quote from: Edd Gent
A spacecraft typically weighs just 1-2 percent as much as the rocket that launches it, Hudson says. Since Stratolaunch is designed to carry up to 550,000 pounds, its payload capacity is likely to be 5,000 to 10,000 pounds. That’s enough to ferry astronauts to a space station or launch small satellites. But it’s nowhere near the payload capacity of SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket.

SpaceX’s booster can carry 50,265 pounds to low-Earth orbit and up to 18,300 pounds to geostationary transfer orbit (GTO), an intermediate orbit where large communication satellites are launched to before they power themselves to geostationary orbit, where they essentially hover above the same part of the planet continuously.

Space X makes the bulk of its non-governmental revenue from launching communications satellites weighing about 10,000 pounds into GTO, says Hudson. “So it is no threat to SpaceX in broad business terms,” he says of Stratolaunch.
True.

Suggest that the costs of maintaining Stratolaunch "launchpad" is a lot more than a C-17 (and even an Antonov AN-225), and that the number of such "small" payloads might not fill that "hole".

Also, following Rocket Labs recent outstanding success (they do have a ways to go to enter commercial service), the onslaught of the low end may serve to "crowd" the bottom of the market.

One could get pinched by the top of the market coming down, with the bottom climbing. (The potential for cluster vehicles to probe the bottom of Stratolaunch's theoretical payload capacity is more likely in the time frame of a "real" LV (not Pegasus XL) arriving on the scene.)

Too little, too late?

Offline jongoff

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https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/world-s-biggest-plane-stratolaunch-marks-another-key-milestone-ncna851556

I hope that if they can actually get a rocket developed for Roc, that it's something worthwhile. Ie one with at least a reusable first stage, using glideforward landing (winged, powered VTVL, or propeller beenie style are all fine by me, just so long as it's actually reusable).

~Jon

Offline vaporcobra

Worth a new thread? WaPo's Davenport had an interview with Allen and CEO Floyd where he was told that Stratolaunch was thinking about building it's own Shuttle-sized reusable spaceplane, codenamed Black Ice. Can't criticize them for lack of ambition...

Quote
In exclusive interviews last summer, Allen and Jean Floyd, Stratolaunch System's chief executive, laid out the company’s plans for the giant plane, providing an answer to why anyone would want to build an aircraft that has 28 wheels, six 747 jet engines and a wingspan longer than a football field.

“I would love to see us have a full reusable system and have weekly, if not more often, airport-style, repeatable operations going,” Allen said in an interview in his Seattle office.

The Black Ice space plane — should it be built — would be about as big as the former space shuttle developed by NASA and capable of staying up for at least three days. It could be launched from virtually anywhere in the world, as long as the runway could accommodate Stratolaunch’s size. And it would be capable of flying to the International Space Station, taking satellites and experiments to orbit, and maybe one day even people — though there are no plans for that in the near-term.

Then it would land back on the runway, ready to fly again.

“You make your rocket a plane,” Floyd said. “So, you have an airplane carrying a plane that’s fully reusable. You don’t throw anything away ever. Only fuel.”

For now, the company is focused on the maiden flight of Stratolaunch, which could come later this year. Then it would decide whether to pursue Black Ice

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/03/06/why-is-paul-allen-building-the-worlds-largest-airplane-perhaps-to-launch-a-space-shuttle-called-black-ice/?utm_term=.aedd5dc0994b

Offline Andy Bandy

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An orbital space plane that could be flown weekly with aircraft-like operations?

Well, who doesn't want something like that? It's the holy grail of spaceflight.

Will it happen? Maybe. Maybe not.


Offline envy887

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An orbital space plane that could be flown weekly with aircraft-like operations?

Well, who doesn't want something like that? It's the holy grail of spaceflight.

Will it happen? Maybe. Maybe not.

From an airlaunch platform, it's almost plausible. But a lot of work.

Offline vaporcobra

An orbital space plane that could be flown weekly with aircraft-like operations?

Well, who doesn't want something like that? It's the holy grail of spaceflight.

Will it happen? Maybe. Maybe not.

Agreed. I'm also rather partial to SpaceX's argument that orbital-capable aircraft are almost always more tradeoffs and wasted mass than they're worth, unless you desperately require huge cross range glide capabilities. Another massive issue here is that Roc at best counts as maybe a quarter of a first stage (based on air density at 0 v. 35000 feet). Black Ice would basically have to be SSTO to work. The Shuttle stack was two stages and ~2000 metric tons fueled, whereas Black Ice would have to be less than 230t. Shuttle had a payload fraction of 1.5% (orbiter excluded) and VentureStar had a theoretical payload fraction of 2%, so something around 2.5% could probably be expected from an airlaunched SSTOish spaceplane. 5 tons to LEO isn't horrible...

Still a massive engineering hurdle with many unknowns, but I'm a fair bit less skeptical after spitballing some rough estimates. Doesn't hurt to have the support of a multibillionaire.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 02:42 am by vaporcobra »

Offline Gliderflyer

Interesting. Sounds like they are leaning towards an "almost SSTO", similar to the Teledyne Brown Spaceplane (Obligatory
Selenian Boondocks link: http://selenianboondocks.com/2008/01/orbital-access-methodologies-part-i-air-launched-ssto/).
I tried it at home

Offline DreamyPickle

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There was an earlier announcement that they bought some RL10s, is that still relevant? This could be the propulsion for the "Black Ice" shuttle project. Since these engines are expensive but reliable and efficient they're a good choice for a reusable vehicle.

The problem is indeed that a plane only gets you very little on the way to orbit so building an air-launched shuttle is not very different from building an SSTO. That WaPo article mentions small sats, maybe they're going for very low mass payloads and hoping to compete against the likes of Electron through very high flight rates and low recurrent costs?

One solution to the "almost-SSTO" problem would be to add small expendable solid boosters and just work on reusing the hydrolox upper stage.

Online Robotbeat

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Well, RL-10s have terrible sea level performance and excellent vacuum performance, so being able to launch at high altitude might make them feasible as main propulsion. Maybe enough to do SSTO reusable.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online Robotbeat

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I wonder if you could loop the loop and launch on the upward swing? That would simplify the rocket design.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline LtWigglesworth

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Black ice sounds like the sort of thing that would be proposed by a Soviet design bureau circa the late 80's.

Offline Archibald

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Well, if BFS can be a near-SSTO, why not ? maybe they should renew their original partnership with SpaceX and build a subscale variant of it...
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Lars-J

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Well, RL-10s have terrible sea level performance and excellent vacuum performance, so being able to launch at high altitude might make them feasible as main propulsion. Maybe enough to do SSTO reusable.

The T/W ratio is too anemic. People tend to overestimate the need for isp efficiency in a deep gravity well (with atmosphere to boot). It is not as important as most think for getting to LEO.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 06:29 am by Lars-J »

Offline vaporcobra

I wonder if you could loop the loop and launch on the upward swing? That would simplify the rocket design.

I'm sure the 'ole Roc could handle a loop w/ a quarter million ton payload, easy ;)

Offline Archibald

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stick a SRB or a SSME to it and it should work.  :o

« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 10:12 am by Archibald »
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

 

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